Dark Souls: Initial Thoughts

[Popadoo]

The game does have faults, and chief among them are the piss poor placement of checkpoints. There is simply no excuse for that. Whether you like that or not is really irrelevant. If the game had sensible checkpoints do you mean to seriously suggest you'd complain?

The checkpoints are spread out so far so that the sense of achievement and relief when you finally get to it is immense. That is the reason this game is so engaging; The sense of reward after dying oh so many times before!

 

[Dansen]

I'm completely stuck on the undead burg battlements. The camera is awful. The framerate really isn't acceptable and, despite what the fanboys think, the game does rely on cheap gimmicks and frustration. Difficulty isn't the issue. Having a bunch of people you can't target or attack able to throw firebombs at you on narrrow battlements while having to pull mobs you can't see from outsidfe a narrow door into a tower chamber one at a time is just piss poor game design. The icing on the cake is then having to repeat this (and more) when you make it to one of the bosses later one as there is no checkpoint. You have no idea how to fight the mobs because there are no clues (apart from one message 'ring' ??? before a tall knight type guy that i had to face in a narrow corridor near the exit to the taurus demon.
On top of that the game doesn't even play by its' own rules. Sometimes a mob can magically speed up and attack you like a swordsman on pcp, other times they block your attacks constantly and yet when you block a slow lunging spear move you still don't have the advantage. Parrying is far too difficult and because of the cost of failure you aren't incentivised to learn because the only way to learn is in the heat of battle.
These are not aspects of clever game design, they are symptoms of bad game design. It's the sort of frustration born of the difficulty of having to deal with a system that is not internally consistent and deliberately unhelpful. People that champion this are the sort of people that don't want innovatioon or originality in game design; they are the sort of people that lambast 'weaker' gamers because they themselves got teased for playing video games. It's a sort of survival of the shittiest.
There may well be a great reward for surviving all this, and I've no doubt you will feela sense of achievement having beaten the boss you have no idea how to fight and can only learn through extreme frustration (oh, he attacks like that, you say as you die and respawn, along with everything else, ten miles away). I think it's very sad the gaming media tacitly endorses these kinds of poor decision making in favour of a more accessible and smoother game. That they can't differentitate between those qualities and actual difficulty says a lot.

lol,I haven't gotten mad at this game so far.

I actually enjoy this game a lot, games aren't made like this anymore, and it is refreshing. I'm not saying all games should go follow Dark souls example, that would be stupid, but I can't help enjoying this game.

It reminds me of the time when I first started playing video games as a little kid. I had no idea what I was doing, I was mostly playing RTSs at the time, like AoE 2 and Red Alert 2. RTSs can be just as punishing as Dark Souls is if you have no idea what your doing. Over time I learned how to play the game, and I had several moments of extreme satisfaction as I crushed enemies that had once given me a lot of trouble. I see Dark Souls as no different from this experience except that the feelings of triumph are way more frequent.

This might not be the game for you, but here are some tips if you still plan on playing.

-Plan on dying, just go out and experiment with your moves, and don't expect to survive. You will get valuable experience in executing moves you find difficult.

-Take things slowly and isolate enemies if you can.

-rolling throws off all enemy attacks, just don't roll in the direction of their attack and dodge only when they are right about to swing.

-To get more arrows go left and down the stairs when leaving the Undead burg, then go to the center of the roof top, look out for the hollow hiding in the fortifications, once he is defeated. look for a path way. It will be to the left of the stairs as you go down them. At the end of the pathway, there are two spearmen. Kill them and break the creates, because they are blocking the staircase. Go downstairs, there will be a hollow axman trapped behind some furniture, he will break the furniture, so just kill him quickly. Then go out the doorway that goes directly outside, don't go down the hallway. Outside you will find a shop keeper who sells, repair items, keys, armor, weapons, and arrows. Standard arrows cost 10 souls, the stronger arrows cost 100 souls, weak arrows cost 3 souls.


I hope that helped a little.

 

[Dansen]

I'm not mad. I expected this. But it's just sad that the game goes against the player in this way. Sensible checkpoint placement would resolve player frustration and maintain difficulty. It's a game that's difficult because nothing is explained, no helop is given and the environment is terrible. Narrow battlements and cramped quarters are not the friend of a lock on system whiel being pelted by firebombs you can't deal with.

This idea that the game isn't for you is ridiculous; are FS offering a refund for players that find the game isn't for them? Somehow i doubt it. Was there a demo?

Nope, I'll give the game a go, but I always told myself that I reserve the right to hate it and to sell it on.

Rolling takes you too far away most of the time. When you recover so do they.

I'm nowhere near the end of the burg (presumably). It's all I can do to get to the BLack Knight who proceeds to slaughter me after I backstab him. Hooray. Getting back to him is half the battle thanks to the poorly placed snipers by the bonfire and the lack of subsequent checkpoint. If i had some ammo i could take them out before pulling the mobs in the tower. And my weapons are falling apart with no way to repair them.

Then what, use the harsh language button? Start the game from scratch I suppose. I don't think that's good game design at all.

What class are you playing?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

LOL you don't know how to manual aim a bow do you?

To what end? I have a bow but no ammunition and nowhere yet to get any. Do pay attention.

There you go [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bNDfiPt3-4&feature=player_detailpage#t=151s]. The merchant is through that hidden staircase.

 

[krazykidd]

I just rang the first bell and i'd give the game maybe a 7/10.

The games main gameplay is good, but it is marred by constant flaws that shouldn't even be a problem. No explaining what anything is or what it means? I accidentally hit a shopkeeper so I can no longer use him forever! Did I mention that the multiplayer doesn't work. One of the devs on the forums specifically quoted me and told me to not bother trying to play with my specific friend because we were on different servers. Stupid. This is the same friend in the same country that I always do co-op with. We bought the damn game together.

Also why can't you use party chat while playing? That's like one of Xbox lives greatest features.

Gameplay is alright but with broken multiplayer, no party chat, and a ton of grinding I can't put it at anything above average. At least the Witcher 2 looked beautiful.

You can use , private chat and talk to each other , i realise this when i was in blight town frien of mine came online and invited me to party chat , i accepted and game just shut off with no warning . At least the game auto saves often. On and once you join a covenant you can invade as much as you want with the item tbey give you.

 

[Popadoo]

That's not reward. That's just gullibility. I'm staggered how From Software have managed to pull the wool over so many people's eyes with this. This has to be the greatest con job in gaming history; it truly is the emperor's new clothes. The game gives the player absolutely nothing to work with. It doesn't even properly explain the stats.

on top of that my continued deaths at the hands of the zombies in the burg has meant one of my two swords is now usless. That's right, the game also has weapon degradation. So not only do you enjoy the frustration of continually dying and respawning in a badly laid out environment but your weapon will wear out. There's no where to fix this at all!

Difficulty is one thing.

This is something else.

- The sense of achievement IS there, you just have to - you know - WORK for it.
- You CAN repair weapons.
- The stats are explained. If you hit a button when in the 'Level Up' menu, it explains the advantages of increasing that certain point.
- The same goes for weapons. Hit a certain button while over a weapon and it explains everything to you. In the end, other RPGs have had less intuitive menus.

 

[andrat]

My complaint is that I keep getting my ass kicked by a taurus demon because I'm not good enough at the game to kill him yet.

 

[Fragrance of Mtn Dew]

My biggest prob with the game is the weapon atks. They changed a lot of them that worked well to weird screwed up animations. The Halberd which used to atk with the axe part in downward motions now just gets jabbed forward with your char stumbling as they do it. The Morning star just get one big thrust downward, again with your char stumbling. A lot of those weapons didn't need the atk patterns screwed up when they worked fine for what they where most needed for.

Also while not as big of a deal I don't like that my char looks like a old corpse when it's hallowed. I spent like an hr in OCD fulled char customizing, only to find I'm gonna be spending most of my time as a mummy. Either way I like that the enemies are smarter and will follow you up ladders and stairs and actually use better strats then "run in with my cock out flail".

If your character is stumbling when you attack, it's probably because you don't meet the requirements for wielding that weapon properly. Check the weapon requirements and if they are in red, you need to raise those stats to use that weapon to full effect.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

I never had any problems in bonfire spacing at all so it is something on your end, I can make it to the church in one sitting.

er, what? how can my copy of the game be different than yours? Don't be stupid!

HAHAHA! Getting called out with my own line is funny, I'm not talking about the game, I'm talking about the player. I'm also saying your not bad as I haven't seen you play but it is obvious that you need to understand the game mechanics a little better. The bonfire spacing are fine, usually about ten minutes apart. Yes you can get destroyed in said 10 minutes but so can you. I made it to the church, beat both black knights, the pig, and both bosses while ringing the bell in 2.5 hours. I did die like 12 times but only takes a few minutes to get back if most.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

That's not reward. That's just gullibility. I'm staggered how From Software have managed to pull the wool over so many people's eyes with this. This has to be the greatest con job in gaming history; it truly is the emperor's new clothes. The game gives the player absolutely nothing to work with. It doesn't even properly explain the stats.

on top of that my continued deaths at the hands of the zombies in the burg has meant one of my two swords is now usless. That's right, the game also has weapon degradation. So not only do you enjoy the frustration of continually dying and respawning in a badly laid out environment but your weapon will wear out. There's no where to fix this at all!

Difficulty is one thing.

This is something else.

...0_0 how did you manage that, Breaking a sword? Really? your doing something wrong on your end, so I will help you. Start over, pick fighter, any other class will work but the long sword has a thrust for a powerful attack and it helps. Next play defensive, have your shield up in every battle, let them attack you, block and attack till they drop, the thrust usually kills in one hit on the smaller enemies. THIS TECHNIQUE WORKS ON EVERYTHING! You can destroy every enemy with letting the enemy attack first, for the stronger enemies, you will have to roll back sometimes or dodge certain moves but the technique works the same. The part with the fire bombs, your shield can block those too, I thought it was obvious but locking on groups get you destroyed as your not as agile.

All I'm sayin is the game isn't cheap or hard, it is fair, games now a days tend to skew towards the player to make them a bad-ass, dark souls just took that away from you.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I mean this in the nicest possible way.

Maybe you're just not very good at this kind of game.

Everything you're complaining about, is what everybody else in this thread loves about the game. The camera is fine, maybe you're the problem.

Maybe it's not for you, nothing wrong with that, but treating what everybody else likes about the game as faults?

Come on dude.

THe irony of gamers is something that never fails to amaze me.

First I get criticised for not playing the game.
Then I play it and explain my state of play (which is presented entirely objectively; i brought teh game knowing full well I might not enjoy it and would sell it on later, that's fine) and get told 'maybe you suck'.

Well of course I suck; does that surprise you? This is the hardest game on the 360 bar none. You seem surprised that I might find this difficult.

The game does have faults, and chief among them are the piss poor placement of checkpoints. There is simply no excuse for that. Whether you like that or not is really irrelevant. If the game had sensible checkpoints do you mean to seriously suggest you'd complain?

Yeah, that's not what irony is.

It's obvious you're having a lot of trouble with the game, but is that the game's fault?

I'm doing fine, because I understand the mechanics and how everything works (I played Demon's Souls, so that's no surprise).

Yes, the game doesn't hold your hand and tell you exactly what you need to do or where to find things, but that's part of the charm.

But you really are stating things you don't like as if they were design faults, which they're not.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Got it yesterday. Haven't had much time to play it. Just ripped the Taurus Demon a new one. I'm playing Dark Souls a bit like I played Demon's Souls (shield up at all times, and a lot of archery) and it's paying off very well. Only three deaths yet. But more will come. Many many more.

Right now, I'm loving it, I truly am.

 

[Alandoril]

I think the problem a lot of people have with a game like this is that it's old school, and I mean properly old school. I've not played it yet, but I fully intend to at some point (damn you oddly clustered game release schedules!) and from what I've seen of gameplay videos and the like I know I'm going to enjoy it even though it will frustrate me at times.

Why? Because it is exactly the way I imagine these kind of fantasy worlds to actually be. Don't get me wrong I love the way franchises like say, The Elder Scrolls, have been doing things recently as they are the epitome of epic fantasy adventures. But Dark Souls seems more like it would really be to live, and survive, in such a world. To me it seems more like playing a journal of an actual experience rather than simply a game.

Simple point said long I know but hey