Dark souls is utter crap as a game.

[TitanAtlas]

Well... not everybody likes the same thing. I liked the costumization, the armor variety and how you had to be carefull with what you wear (cuz heavy clothes can slow you down, and light clothes give you more chances to dodge or escape), i liked the difficulty that prevents me to smash the attack button to win, i loved the music and the story (wich can be found through characters, weapons and items, so instead of giant cutscenes and pounds of dialogue, you get a much easier and fluid way of storytelling), i loved the music, and the ambience of the game, the multiplayer aspect and the enemy design for every single undead bastard i faced.

So i find it really dumb to classify the worst of the worst to dark souls and think people only like it cuz it's hard.

There was actual work involved into making that game. From sounds, mechanics and even to visuals. Demon Souls was the "beta" version for this great game. Heck i loved every single detail, every single enemy (design... cuz there are some enemies... that are real bastards), loved every single location (again... location design... cuz there are places that i really really really hated).

To me Dark Souls is the equivalent of a good Castlevânia game, but in 3D.... and doned perfectly.

 

[Bealzibob]

No mechanically as a game Dark Souls is great for the most part. Sloppy, perhaps intentionally, in some places but overall a very solid game compared to most. However as piece of entertainment and as the sum of it's parts you are right. It is fustrating, empty and ironically souless. It's atmosphere is solid if you let yourself breath life into it and work hard for the immersion but it fights against you to break it with it's annoying and redundant guts. It's head is held high with epic battles and bosses but it's world drags it's feet, it's in-depth combat, behind it.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Yeah, with Demon's Souls, it is all about preparation and careful observation. Don't put all your points into one or two stats, observe the environment, read the hints left by everybody for god's sake, take things slowly and carefully, and you should be able to make it through nearly every level in one go. I know I did, and I am not even close to one of those people who play games for the challenge. Also, get a few basic spells, like flame toss or soul arrow. I know, for a melee based character they might seem silly, but you absolutely need them. Bow+arrows too. Both make hard bosses insanely easy.

This. I rarely ever use range or magic in games, but in Demon's Soul's it was a necessity to survive. I started that game planning to be sword only. By end game I was a master archer, a skilled swordsman and a godlike Wizard.

The same thing basically happened to me as well. I started out as a Knight, planning on going full melee, but that dream pretty much ended with my encounter with the Tower Knight. By the time I beat the game, I was insanely good with a bow and sword (SL 100+). Not so good with magic though... I mainly used soul-arrow, flame toss, and soul ray, all those mainly for the bosses. Never went melee against any of the buggers. XD

 

[getoffmycloud]

Dark souls is just a game that requires practice. The first couple of hours for me were some of the most infuriating I have ever had while playing a video game but once I got the hang of it and started learning the enemies and how to recognise their attacks it became a lot easier.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

Really, another one of these threads? I could have sworn we'd moved on with our lives. Honestly, it bothers me that I love this game so and have to enjoy it despite the community which surrounds it. Men (and teenagers) with such a staggeringly insecure handle on their masculinity that the must play HARD games as if it would justify their very existence.

I enjoyed Dark Souls not for the challenge (though it is terribly challenging) but for the deft, oppressive sense of atmosphere and the unconventional manner in which the narrative unfolds. You have to piece together the larger story through titbits. It's somewhat similar to the manner in which Metroid Prime handled exposition, similar in delivery that is. You're exploring a dead society, it would only make sense that you get your information from hearsay and what little is left to the wind.

I enjoyed the game because it did feel like I was inhabiting a living world, because there was a sense of mystery that so many games lack these days.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Yeah, with Demon's Souls, it is all about preparation and careful observation. Don't put all your points into one or two stats, observe the environment, read the hints left by everybody for god's sake, take things slowly and carefully, and you should be able to make it through nearly every level in one go. I know I did, and I am not even close to one of those people who play games for the challenge. Also, get a few basic spells, like flame toss or soul arrow. I know, for a melee based character they might seem silly, but you absolutely need them. Bow+arrows too. Both make hard bosses insanely easy.

This. I rarely ever use range or magic in games, but in Demon's Soul's it was a necessity to survive. I started that game planning to be sword only. By end game I was a master archer, a skilled swordsman and a godlike Wizard.

The same thing basically happened to me as well. I started out as a Knight, planning on going full melee, but that dream pretty much ended with my encounter with the Tower Knight. By the time I beat the game, I was insanely good with a bow and sword (SL 100+). Not so good with magic though... I mainly used soul-arrow, flame toss, and soul ray, all those mainly for the bosses. Never went melee against any of the buggers. XD

You can get some really powerful spells and miracles with Boss Souls. Some that killed the later bosses in one hit.

I know, I got soul ray. I would have gotten all those others, but they required something like 200 magic to pull off when I had like 100 and was SL80+ (EDIT: and had like 2 spell mem and 1 miracle mem). And since I hate grinding (even grinding lvl 4-3 with stormruler, it would have taken ages to level myself up to the level I could actually use them at), I abandoned any hope of getting those.

 

[Silas13013]

So When you finally finish Dark Souls, you fucking go bananas: YOU FUCKING BEAT DARK SOULS. It's an accomplishment to do so. It makes you earn your success.

If doesn't sound fun, if this isn't what you want: sell it now. Do not try. Give up. You will not succeed. It will break you. It will make you want to die.
Dark Souls isn't for everyone. And because it's not everyone, it's absolutely fucking brilliant.

See I don't feel this holds up. When I beat dark souls, I just felt an annoying part of my life was over. Although my experience appears to be unique because of a physics glitch where attacking enemies after blocking (i.e. all the time) would have me sink slowly into the floor and get stuck.

After a while I just became jaded with the game. Victory had no reward because there was just another boring, shoddily designed section section of game right after. Death had no penalty because if you could make it to one spot, you could make it there again and dying was a simple "extend gameplay" button. After beating Gywn, I just stopped playing. Normally I play all games second playthroughs because it is usually rewarding. Dark souls is not. There is no sense of accomplishment when beating anything because it's the game (i.e the bad controls, poorly designed world and broken physics) that killed me more than any monster attack.

And thats fine! I love IWBTG and IWBTB. They are the most difficult games I have ever played and are the epitome of "the world hates you" type of games. The difference is, the IWB- games are aware of this and make it fun. Deaths are quick and not drawn out and you get a real sense of accomplishment after executing a perfect jump through a spike infested world. Something nothing in Dark souls ever came close to replicating. The tagline of "you will die" is nothing but a shallow, pathetic attempt at goading in its adolescent audience by insulting their manhood. So flex your testicles Dark souls fans, and claim everyone else is beneath you. I'm going to play fun games.

 

[Olikunmissile]

That's funny. A game isn't to OP's liking so it's shit. It also looks like no one else is allowed an opinion other than his. I really enjoyed the game, I found it a fantastic break from everything main stream. It's aimed at a niche market.

Just because you didn't enjoy it doesn't mean it's a bad game. It's got very sound core mechanics that suit most approaches to most enemies.

And then OP compares it to Skyrim, an entirely different game. Or is this just the way it has to be? Does every RPG have to rip off Elder Scrolls? So you can complain about another clone.
I personally didn't find Skyrim that brilliant, the lack of effect I had on the world threw me right out of it.

Not every RPG has to be an open sandbox. Darksouls has a path for you to follow, and if you take the time out to explore, you'll meet different characters each with their own story. You have to work for it in Darksouls. But I guess that's the problem, your attention span isn't large enough.

OP, really, everyone is allowed an opinion, stop berating everyone who enjoyed something you didn't. That's the worst kind of immature.

 

[Ninjat_126]

Let me tell you off immediately like so : I don't have to think about doing anything in demon souls I just have to run into the grubs with my axe head first enough times till I get pas them.

Dark Souls isn't an RPG where you spam the attack button, you need preparation and skill, and you need to learn enemy patterns. Running forwards swinging? Not the idea.

...the enemies have free reign at you when you're recovering from the many times you'll be recovering from your weapon bouncing off the walls of a cramped hallway.

Have you tried using something like a dagger or spear? If I notice the walls closing in, I put away my Claymore and pull out something smaller.

Games of today are designed to make sure any brain dead fucking retard can complete them with literally no effort. Darks Souls harkens back to games that required timing, memorisation and a lot of fucking tears.

Dark Souls requires a few things from you in order to be enjoyed properly.
~snip~

Basically, these dudes above.


Dark Souls was perhaps the best RPG I've ever played. The story was scattered around a bit, but there was enough to keep me entertained, some interesting moral choice stuff going on (that isn't just quantified by a coloured bar) and some pretty little deceptions to keep me hooked.

The upgrade mechanics for weapons were deep, and I really had to think about what I was doing to each weapon I bought or found.

The levelling mechanics made me seriously consider every single point I put into every single one of my stats, and if I didn't, it hurt a lot later down the line.

The combat was fantastic. I was disappointed in the lack of duelling enemies that didn't just smash you up with hammers and axes, but the system itself was good. I also liked the tradeoffs with speed, power, dual-wielding and two-handing that made you really think about things before you did them, or again you'd pay the price.

Finally, the PvP. Laggy as hell for me so far, but I loved it nonetheless. Even with the assholes spamming Tranquil Walk of Peace, the online PvP system was brilliant and innovative, even if it was in Demons's's Souls first.

TDarksouls has a path for you to follow, and if you take the time out to explore, you'll meet different characters each with their own story.

Every time I got safely back to Firelink, I felt more relief than I ever felt getting back to Megaton in Fallout 3. I also felt as much connection to people like Griggs, Andre and Solaire than I ever did to NPCs in Fallout 3, and almost as much as I did to the Mass Effect squadmates; you know, the ones with carefully crafted backstories designed to make you like them.

 

[Popadoo]

I lore is actually very very well thought it. It's just that it doesn't throw it in your face so you know exactly what to expect and how things happened and are going to happen, since knowing everything about a world pretty much gives away the ending to any story.
I thoroughly enjoyed the tough gameplay, it really does take skill in my opinion, and isn't just a roll here and a stab there. I managed to kill what I presumed was a level 30-50 player who had invaded the world of my level 15 character, simply by using clever tactics and trying to expect what he would do.
In the end, it's down to opinions. It isn't a bad game, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten such praise from reviewers and critics and such, but if you don't like it that's fine, just don't go around saying that it's a fact it is bad.

 

[ManOwaRrior]

EDIT NOTICE: Before you read this I would like to explain to you that my main issues with the game are these :
I feel it does not qualify as an RPG of any kind because bar the "design your character"
Part there is next to no story (Compare Dark Souls to Skyrim and you know what I mean, or better yet tell me immediately what the undead burg is what the lore behind it is how it got there why all its denizens are gone why I'm supposed to go there, who the knights are that lurk about the place, who the guys in the graveyard were etc etc etc. )

Many things qualify as an RPG, since "RPG" is mearly a term. Diablo considers itself an RPG, SKyrim does, Baldur's gate does, and Souls does as well.
Many RPG's focus on the story, but that's not the defininge Point of a *Role Playing Game*.
What defines an RPG is the abillity to play a role. Be it story-wise, be it combat-wise, once you can shape your character into something, it's an RPG.
Othere than that, Yes, souls has a story, it just isn't presented to the player up front. It's only there for those who pay attention and actually want to piece it together from the many small clues the game provides.
Besides, what does it matter? Souls doesn't qualify as FPS or RTS, but it's irrellevant. Genre doesn't matter.

I feel there is no ACTUAL difficulty to the game , it's a suicide trial or a lesson on how to tuck and roll either way there is nothing in the game that's actually difficult, there's just the impossibility of doing something and doing it so many times it suddenly becomes possible.

So what is actual difficulty? This is a serious question btw, since difficulty means different things for different people.
As for Souls, it's deffinitly not a suicide trial. You can play it this way, sure, but you don't have to. A lot of deaths can be avoided by beeing strategic and good positioning.
You are right however in that it is a lesson of tuck and roll. It wants you to become good at evasive maneuvers, since you need them. I think that does qualify as some sort of difficulty

I feel it's a bit bland it's mostly gray and empty with little to show for it.
Partly belonging with story but I find having conversations that go anywhere is a bit difficult for this game.

Mostly gray is imply not true once you leave the burg-area. And you seem to have a different deffinition of bland than I have.
The conversations are some the afforementioned pieces to the story. They don't serve the same purpose as they do in other RPGS, but each one has it's relevance. Of course, you can choose to ignore them.

I know you first posters are going to be the "IT'S DIFFICULT SO IT HAS TO BE GOOD" crowd.
Let me tell you off immediately like so : I don't have to think about doing anything in demon souls I just have to run into the grubs with my axe head first enough times till I get pas them.
Which means it's not challenging or difficult or complex more relatively easy though difficult to execute at times(the entire time sorry).

Sou you say it is difficult to execute, but not difficult? See question above on what constitutes difficulty.

Now I bought demon souls thinking I was buying an RPG/Action RPG/GAME
But I didn't find much of it in my playthrough.
The only thing I found myself doing was moving through a landscape trying not to die as much to see more of the landscape, oh and pick some stuff up along the way because it's very important apparently but nobody is going to explain to me what the hell I'm supposed to do before I've done it.

You did read reviews of the game, right? Because all of them would have told exactly that.

I'm thrown in to this "huge" fantasy world without much explaining of where I am or what I'm supposed to do , there's no characters that hold up real conversation and all I know for the rest there's a lot of enemies who're going to kill me and the combat tends to be quite shoddy so I have to do everything about 20 thousand times to get through somewhere.

The combat is not shoddy, it's one of the best combat systems out there. Everything is precise, everything has meaning, every attack, every block is a concoius descision, every mistake can be deadly.
If you think it's shoddy, chances are, you haven't got it yet.
[/quote]

There's the usual "Create you're character so and so" and the "Collect experience to lvl up"
But besides that I'm not noticing much rpg because I lack a god damn story.

Again, Stroy is one aspect of an RPG, but not the defining factor.

I looked it up on wikipedia and there actually is a story , bar the starting tale
I couldn't be arsed to play anymore to actually reach the story part because the game faced me with 3 enemies in 3 different directions that would 1 shot me into oblivion every time and I had not known wtf was going on up till there

You see, that's the point. Souls focus is the gameplay. You play the game for the gameplay, not for the story.
If you don't like the gameplay and want to be told a story, then, yes, Souls is not for you. But that doesn't make it a terrible game.
Oh and if you let yourself be surrounded by three enemies who can all one shot you, it's your mistake.

See if you're giving me combat then It's supposed to be useful and I'm supposed to be enjoying fighting, instead I'm looking for cheap cop out ways to kill something that if it sniffs me it kills me.

The combat is the entire point of Souls. I enjoy fighting in souls. Maybe it is the way you are approaching the combat. You are supposed to learn the mechanics to the point where you don't have to use cheap cop out ways to kill something. You will die on the way, but don't tell me no one told you that.

Yes I eventually ventured further but there was no feeling of achievement there was just plain nothing, I'm stuck in a dreary world with dreary people gone mad , no real story and everything being covered with a fine layer of gray.

Ify ou can't get any feeling of achievment from beating a hard part of the game that killed you 20 times before, than you should indeed look for other games.

I have yet to learn how you can enjoy this game being nothing but a challenge nut (Even though as I said there is no real challenge you're just doing something a hundred/thousand times till it actually works and then you move on to the next part where you're doing the exact same)

If someone can elaborate for me how this is such a great game without going "OMG BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT'S SUCH A CHALLENGE"
I am willing to listen to a sound view.
But nobody can deny there isn't much of a story, gameplay element or motivation in this game rather then "I don't want to die oh wait I can't die let's try this again till I can get past it alive for once "

Ok, let's start with how to enjoy the game: I *love* the melee combat in Souls. Believe it or not, for me it's the main reason to fire it up every now and again.
Oh and I do geta sense of achievement when I finaly beat a hard boss that has killed me countless times before.
So much in fact, that it makes up for all the frustration along the way.
In addition, i like the world-desing and the monster-design.
Oh, and I like the Story. And the way it is told. How it slowly comes together, never to the point of beeing explained completely, but how you allways find new clues in the absurdest of places.

So yes, I can deny everything on your list.
- There is a story and i like it
- The combat alone makes me come back to the game
- overcoming impossible odds is a strong motivation for me

 

[The_Echo]

snip

Grammar is your friend. Especially when you're trying to make a point.

Dark Souls is challenging. Yes, I suppose you can go through the game with a trial-and-error mentality, but that's not the challenge. The challenge is figuring out how to beat the game, preferably in a timely fashion.

It doesn't need a deep story. It needs to be fun.

And a lot of people have fun with Dark Souls, myself included.

 

[Cowabungaa]

I saw the game as having the same difficulty curve as QWOP. It's only hard because of how difficult the controls are to master. Since it really seems like you're the only one who's weapon bounces off the geometry and environment, the enemies have free reign at you when you're recovering from the many times you'll be recovering from your weapon bouncing off the walls of a cramped hallway.

That though is not an example of good game design. That's giving the player an unfair disadvantage, you could almost call it cheating.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

I saw the game as having the same difficulty curve as QWOP. It's only hard because of how difficult the controls are to master. Since it really seems like you're the only one who's weapon bounces off the geometry and environment, the enemies have free reign at you when you're recovering from the many times you'll be recovering from your weapon bouncing off the walls of a cramped hallway.

That though is not an example of good game design. That's giving the player an unfair disadvantage, you could almost call it cheating.

Believe me, I wasn't arguing for the game's favor with that one.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I respect Demons'/dark souls for what they are but I have no interest in playing them as when I get frustrated at a game i usually put it down and don't want to pick it up again for a while.

Honestly, I just could not do the combat rooms in Batman: AA and I'm still haven't been in the mood to attempt them again! Maybe Arkham City will get me in the mood when I pick it up.

 

[Sexy Devil]

Wow, it's almost like everyone has different interests and Dark Souls conforms to a completely different niche. No, couldn't be! Everyone has to like what I like, everyone knows that!

 

[manic_depressive13]

Dark Souls was an amazing game. They don't stop everything to feed you a story. They give you a premise and the rest of the story is infered from the NPC's dialogue if you choose to listen to them. The characterisation is amazing and the atmosphere is established perfectly. That's how games should be.

It's challenging, but not overwhelmingly difficult or anything. It's the first game in a long time that I have loved.

Oh yeah and the level design is quite awesome.

 

[josemlopes]

Its not, the times that I died the most were at the start, after that, even with new enemies I usually could manage to kill them, the difficulty comes in the way that you cannot let your guard down and you must always be focused. I dont see what is wrong with that.