Dark souls is utter crap as a game.

[lapan]

Made in Japan Obviously 1 out of a thousand players would have one. Also you can not exclude buyers of the game, its worse actually than knowing the problem and does not excuse the fact that they have to put up with dodgy control's.
Why the hell should I even be looking up if a game is playable anyway if its on PC? No game in 12 + years of gaming I have ever had the need to double check if its playable on the Pc? I just can not fathom this argument, its not even an argument if it were a faulty food product it would have been recalled right away as with any other product.

"I should be able to eat my food raw, how dare you tell me to cook it first."

Just because you refuse to go even a little extra mile doesnt mean its unplayable, especially after the mods.

 

[Windcaler]

I think the fact that a game needs failure to motivate someone is darn stupid. Why not just make it so you can't die? BEST GAME EVARRR!!!11

The gameplay itself should be fun. If I have to go through 15 minutes of killing the same stuff again, it should be fun.
Dark Souls was a "HA! You didn't know you should have dodged back then, here's some tedious annoying shit." The game itself wasn't even that difficult as others have mentioned, it's just a one trick pony relying on poor 'checkpoints' to seem difficult.

I loved the sombre atmosphere and lack of direct storytelling, but it felt like a hipster's bad art project that was meant to be deep, but everyone kinda missed the point.

There are quite a few things wrong with this argument. The first and most glaring is that fun is a very subjective thing. Some guys have a blast buying a junker car for $200 and then fixing it up. For me getting covered in gas, oil, and grease while cutting up my hands on engine parts is about as far from fun as I can think of. Getting back to dark souls the trial and error risk and reward mechanics are fun for me. If I screw up and die then it means a run back but rising up and overcoming that adversity, feeling a genuine sense of accomplishment, that is fun to me. The fact that you call the run back as "tedious crap" is a clear sign that this game just isnt for you and there's nothing wrong with that. There are always going to be kinds of games that arent for everyone like racing games arent for me

I think that might be where there's a disconnect. Dark souls is a very unforgiving game and its up front about that (it tells you to prepare to die, thats not a threat its good advice) but I see a lot of people coming to it and treating it like any other fantasy game. In that unforgiving sense its also a niche game which by definition means its for "a distinct segment of a market" or to put it in simpler terms its not for everyone. That alone is a shame because I wish everyone could play and love the game as much as I do but I also see artistic methods as sacrosanct. That said, I consider the unforgiving difficulty an artistic tool and I dont think its fair for myself or any gamer to force change of a developers art. Its one thing to come into the game and find out it isnt for you, its quite another to come to it and demand change (unless you were promised something like with the ME3 endings debacle)

Your comparison about it being a hipsters art project actually isnt that far off IMO. Most people can play 100+ hours and not know the rich story that is there but thats because most players expect it to be spoon fed to them and laid out in crystal clear forms. So, yes, most people do miss the point unless they really start looking for it. Now for me I really enjoy the cryptic style because IMO it makes the story more interesting because there arent clear cut answer. The firstborn son of Gwyn is one of those mysteries that Im most interested in because there is no answer. Human nature has a tendency to seek out mysteries for the sake of solving them but the one constant is when you get an answer the mysteries become easily forgotten and uninteresting. The best mysteries are ones you never get an answer to

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

This thread makes me wonder what people see in difficulty.

For me, things are either fun or they're hard. What satisfaction do you get out of frustration?

Not everybody gets frustrated by it. I like a challenge, if a game isn't challenging me I barely feel like I'm playing sometimes.

 

[4RT1LL3RY]

There are a lot of similarities between Dark/Demon Souls and say Super Meat Boy. You aren't allowed to make mistakes, you must have impeccable timing, you must not only learn from your mistakes but remember how to respond to each as they came up each time. Super Meat Boy while hard as hell and sometimes crazy inducing doesn't make you feel like you wasted time. The fact that in DS you need to redo massive amounts of content that you already have shown you can overcome is not unlike redoing the same thing in SMB. However scale plays an important factor, 1-2 minutes of lost time is very different from 15-20 minutes of lost time. The need to respond to a situation that will never be overcome the first time forcing you to work all the way back to it to find out how to do it. Seemingly unavoidable deaths are never fun when you can't tell if you caused it.

There are games that are hard because of needing good execution, there are games that are hard because of poor game design, and then there are games that are hard because the development team liked to cause play testers endless suffering. I think the Souls game fall firmly in the last. Sadistic dev teams.

 

[Delta Centauri]

Made in Japan Obviously 1 out of a thousand players would have one. Also you can not exclude buyers of the game, its worse actually than knowing the problem and does not excuse the fact that they have to put up with dodgy control's.
Why the hell should I even be looking up if a game is playable anyway if its on PC? No game in 12 + years of gaming I have ever had the need to double check if its playable on the Pc? I just can not fathom this argument, its not even an argument if it were a faulty food product it would have been recalled right away as with any other product.

"I should be able to eat my food raw, how dare you tell me to cook it first."

Just because you refuse to go even a little extra mile doesn't mean its unplayable, especially after the mods.

Just to pipe in because the average post in these arguments end up in, "That's a ridiculous notion; I said faulty food product and not whether it needs to be cooked to be enjoyed or even edible."
@Kingthrall
The studio no doubt had a low-budget to port a game that has been released well within a year earlier on different platforms. There was always the answer of, "We don't think it's appropriate to launch a title that wasn't intentionally made for that platform; we are considering bringing future titles to the market, however." - Slightly skewered Bandai-Namco reply
Finally as demand piled up the publisher caved in; I don't think we should exactly blame From Software for making a cruddy port as the people who were eager to see this on their platform and didn't expect that the port would turn out to be simplified or even broken that they should have expected as much... instead we got mixed reviews between people who really wanted to play it on PC but couldn't, people who did some research and decide whether or not the game would be an investment, people who were hoping for enhanced everything designed for their mindset of a common PC-port, and the consolers who just really wanted their hands at the DLC early and only rated the expansion.
Truthfully I enjoyed it and enjoyed it even more when the resolution fix became what it is now (the 'holy grail' to making Dark Souls better on the PC.) I was one of those eager people who already knew the port would be less than satisfying but didn't want to go and buy a $200 console so I popped online and found a cheap XBOX 360 controller and bought Dark Souls; it may not be the best way to tell a developer we didn't like the end quality of the port but I really hope it shines some light on future releases where From can develop the next game whether it's a sequel or a new IP with a similar design on PC without similar limitations.
Only-thing I can understand some resentment is the price; considering I did have to buy a controller; $40+ for this game seemed pretty steep. Of course I threw it in the back of my mind by acknowledging the expansion being 2 months ahead of consoles (and presumably costing $10 to play.) It's just that if a friend asks about it I usually tell them to wait for it to go on sale and whether or not an official patch fixes some of the problems the community has fixed themselves.

If you disagree; well you're just a blind gamer who wants to complain about a game he/she chooses whether or not to buy and everyone else is an idiot for not seeing it that way; that's fine. There is a mod that does fix the mouse(& keyboard) controls respectively and I hope you've tried it. If all else fails; you can always push Steam (GFWL?) into giving you a refund if you hadn't tried already (unless you're one of those buggers who played the game for 20+ hours, but that's just me.) Hopefully none of this came off as too rude.

 

[kingthrall]

Why the hell should I even be looking up if a game is playable anyway if its on PC? No game in 12 + years of gaming I have ever had the need to double check if its playable on the Pc? I just can not fathom this argument, its not even an argument if it were a faulty food product it would have been recalled right away as with any other product.

I won't defend From as the M&K controls were badly implemented with the mouse pointer visable, same goes for the fact that the wireless 360 pads wouldn't work without deleting a windows system file. That is even worse imo considering the 360 pad is the preferred method of control with the port using the 360s UI.

But that isn't really the argument here, it's about if a PC gamer can expect all PC games to work perfectly with M&K which imo is unrealistic if the game is built around a different controller and the devs don't have the time, money or ability to properly implement it. As a old PC gamer who didn't always have a 360 pad I find it very strange that you wouldn't do your research when it comes to console ports. Doing your homework and PC gaming go hand in hand when there's so many PC games with bugs and badly implimented features.

I would recommend you do what I did and just bite the bullet and buy a wired 360 pad. (all black slim version) There's nothing stopping you from playing with M&K with most games and using the pad for games like DS where you really need to. You never know you might actually start like using it.

I still think there needs to be more info on digital store pages for games, but that isn't really just From's problem alone, it's commonplace with PC.

But that "IS" the point, its not about being on a pc, its the fact they are selling it for a PC. Thus certain standards AKA monitor, keyboard and mouse do apply. The basic fundamentals of a pc game. Next you wont be allowed to play Halo 4 Without a joystick on PC because of the vehicle actions.

@lapan, its people like you that are the problem consumers. Making modders as the solution for games. I can download mods yes, in fact the worst vanilla game in my opinion ever was Empire total war was required to mod as the whole game was badly designed with many good qualities.

Oh and I have no idea what point you were trying to get across about your food being cooked? I dont think you got the idea.

 

[Legion]

This thread makes me wonder what people see in difficulty.

For me, things are either fun or they're hard. What satisfaction do you get out of frustration?

I think it depends on what makes it hard. Games that force you to think about different ways to go about it to beat it I like, as they provide a challenge. Like Portals advanced maps.

Games that just chuck on another 1000HP to the boss and double their strength to make it "harder" are not fun as they are just a grind, as you normally just do the same thing but with a lot more hiding to get health back and so on.

Difficulty levels should test your ability more than your patience to be enjoyable.

 

[lapan]

@lapan, its people like you that are the problem consumers. Making modders as the solution for games. I can download mods yes, in fact the worst vanilla game in my opinion ever was Empire total war was required to mod as the whole game was badly designed with many good qualities.

I did already have a controller and didnt mind using it. as such most of the ports flaws didnt affect me in any way. It certainly was worth buying it to me, especially after it kept being improved. If you still don't want it after it's been fixed on principle, it's your loss.

The food part was just me going on hyperbole for fun.

 

[ScumdogSoldier]

This thread makes me wonder what people see in difficulty.

For me, things are either fun or they're hard. What satisfaction do you get out of frustration?

I used to play every game on easy difficulty, then I kinda just started breezing through games, and to tell the truth, it stopped feeling satisfying. I think in games, the satisfaction from beating it comes from working to overcome it. I think this is why Dark Souls (and its predecessor) are probably one of my most favorite games of all time.

 

[Fishyash]

This thread makes me wonder what people see in difficulty.

For me, things are either fun or they're hard. What satisfaction do you get out of frustration?

Because for some people if a game is too easy to win it is not satisfying enough.

One of multiple purposes of a game (video or not) is to challenge the players. Overcoming challenges is satisfying, in work and in recreation. Challenging games should not be forgotten, although it may be fine for some people to ignore.

Breezing through an easy game is boring to me, and boredom is the worst emotion to feel while playing a video game.

 

[repeating integers]

This thread makes me wonder what people see in difficulty.

For me, things are either fun or they're hard. What satisfaction do you get out of frustration?

Because for some people if a game is too easy to win it is not satisfying enough.

One of multiple purposes of a game (video or not) is to challenge the players. Overcoming challenges is satisfying, in work and in recreation. Challenging games should not be forgotten, although it may be fine for some people to ignore.

Breezing through an easy game is boring to me, and boredom is the worst emotion to feel while playing a video game.

This is probably just my chronic laziness kicking in, then. Having to exert any effort to do anything (especially if it's non-essential) is guaranteed to make me frustrated and annoyed.

 

[uhavenoskill]

theres 1000 different ways to beat any given situation in dark souls. sorry you're having trouble figuring one of them out. I've seen DkS beaten on lvl 1. all i hear is a bunch of crying. "3 enemy corner me and i die... wuhdafuuhh" "the boss keep 1shottn me wahhdaafuhhh"... me? i suck at golf, so i dont play it. and i dont bash it cuz i suck at it. i happen to be really good at dark souls and think its its one of the best games ever made. so it kind of offends me when people say it sucks just cuz thecant figure it out... how far did you get? im honestly curious how far someone could get just "running in swingin hopin you get lucky" you're playin checkers while dark souls is playin 4D chess. a game like this needed to be made. idgaf about micromanaging WW2 it sounds boring as shit to me but im not gonna write a fucking blog about it. good day to you sir

 

[Korten12]

Next you wont be allowed to play Halo 4 Without a joystick on PC because of the vehicle actions.

Sorry I had to address this but...

Wat? Sorry, Halo 4 isn't on PC, so that part doesn't make sense.

 

[hondommond]

It sounds like your color blind and had a tough time with the game...Welcome to Dark Souls...

 

[Fr]anc[is]

theres 1000 different ways to beat any given situation in dark souls.

As someone who tried to play a pure sorcerer as his first character, that is a straight up lie. If you're not a warrior of some description you're going to fail. The one exception is maybe an archer, but even that is mostly because you can abuse the hell out of monster boundaries and the fact that if you are far enough away the monsters don't even react. Most items become obsolete basically a minute after you buy them. Except for resins and the stamina herb, which just proves my point that melee dominates all and everything else is an afterthought. And before anyone asks, I've beaten the game twice since then, once with a thief turned archer and again with an onionbro.

 

[uhavenoskill]

anc[is]

theres 1000 different ways to beat any given situation in dark souls.

As someone who tried to play a pure sorcerer as his first character, that is a straight up lie. If you're not a warrior of some description you're going to fail. The one exception is maybe an archer, but even that is mostly because you can abuse the hell out of monster boundaries and the fact that if you are far enough away the monsters don't even react. Most items become obsolete basically a minute after you buy them. Except for resins and the stamina herb, which just proves my point that melee dominates all and everything else is an afterthought. And before anyone asks, I've beaten the game twice since then, once with a thief turned archer and again with an onionbro.

the fact is you're wrong. and i dont lie boutshit(cept to my girl)

ive beaten this game with no shield and a partizan(spear) in 'wanderer' armor.

as for sorcery, you have to know where to find the spells and figure out which catalyst to use at what INT level. sorcerers are still very powerful in DkS. magic weapon/great magic weapon/crystal magic weapon turn a sorcerer into an absolute MONSTER when it comes to meele if your using a fast attacking weapon especially. sorcerery is one of the most, if not THE MOST powerful class in the game. PvP its not AS effective as easily. but i dont think ive ever seen a player survive ONE crystal soul spear with the crystal (something) catalyst. the spells you get from wilhelm are not, by far, the only spells you get. homing soul mass and crystal homing soul mass? its INSANE how powerful sorcerers are. you just have to find the spells and the catalysts. my sorcerers wreckin house in NG+ using a broadsword.. a starting weapon. my "warrior" with his 'black knight sword'(greatsword)+5(max) kills the anor londo giants in two, two-handed swings(slow-ass-mofo swings)... my sorcerer(agile as f) with a +15(also max) broadsword(starting weapon) also kill the anor londo giants in two, two-handed swings(around twice as fast) with my sword imbued.... if i chose not to 1 shot him with a spell.

the point is. there is 1000 ways to... no the point is dont call me a fucking liar.

p.s. im kindof joking about the liar part. kindof.

 

[Drizzitdude]

I loved dark souls, don't know what your problem was xD The point is to figure out the system,it is like a giant puzzle in the style of a oldschool rpg. You have to learn every tactics, move and warning signs from enemies, you have to carefully traverse the environment and always be on the look out for loot. The game is great.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

However, I agree that many who beat Dark Souls or Baldur's Gate or whatever wildly overstate or misunderstand how that accomplishment reflects on their intelligence.

I think I should elaborate on this, at the very least from my experience. Dark Souls isn't a thinking game in the way that chess is thinking game and requires great mental application. It's a thinking game in that you need to constantly be thinking while fighting. At the very least more than most other rpgs I've played involving melee combat. At the very least this is true for the type of character I played. I played a high dex, low armor and vitality character so I could get taken out very, very easily. As such I needed to play very carefully and read my opponent's attacks so that I could avoid getting slaughtered by the couple hits that were required to kill me. What made this game stick out for me was that I actually needed to think about that, compared to other games where it was mainly just aim at the opponent and swing.

As for the OP, if you haven't noticed already I like the game. That isn't to say that it doesn't have flaws, or that it is for everyone. Here's what I liked:
-Focus on spatial awareness and timing (above)
-A very connected and cohesive feeling world
-The aesthetic design for... just about everything. The scenery looked amazing and the enemies had twisted yet beautiful design that I couldn't help but like
-The combat was enjoyable, it didn't feel like it was on tracks like Assassin's Creed and Batman or completely detached like Skyrim (in my opinion at least)
-Fun bosses
-Challenging difficulty

And what I disliked:
-The amount of time spent running to the same boss when you died. There should have been bonfires closer to bosses at the very least, I don't want to spend 4-5 minutes getting to the boss just to be killed in the first attack and have to do it again
-The delivery of the story was just awful. Most of the dialogue was almost unintelligible (I had to play through the game with subtitles), and I never really got an idea of what I was there for. It just felt like I was supposed to head to the next objective for the heck of it.
-Clues on where to go next. I spent my first 2 hours of the game trying to get past the skeletons and head in the direction of the catacombs. The enemies took so long to kill, and I got beaten so badly that I just gave up on the game. Fortunately I came back a couple months later. I got lost a couple other times, where I just had no idea which area I was supposed to go to next. I just ended up using a walkthrough to tell me the order that I was supposed to follow

The game is flawed, definitely, but for me at least its merits far outweigh its faults. Whether it does it for you probably has to do with what you want to be getting out of it. If you need a great story with interesting characters filled with player choice and roleplaying, look elsewhere. If you want a game with an incredible atmosphere, amazing artistic design, a world that you can get lost in (oh so literally)and challenging, yet fun, bosses, this game deserves a shot.

 

[krazykidd]

theres 1000 different ways to beat any given situation in dark souls. sorry you're having trouble figuring one of them out. I've seen DkS beaten on lvl 1. all i hear is a bunch of crying. "3 enemy corner me and i die... wuhdafuuhh" "the boss keep 1shottn me wahhdaafuhhh"... me? i suck at golf, so i dont play it. and i dont bash it cuz i suck at it. i happen to be really good at dark souls and think its its one of the best games ever made. so it kind of offends me when people say it sucks just cuz thecant figure it out... how far did you get? im honestly curious how far someone could get just "running in swingin hopin you get lucky" you're playin checkers while dark souls is playin 4D chess. a game like this needed to be made. idgaf about micromanaging WW2 it sounds boring as shit to me but im not gonna write a fucking blog about it. good day to you sir

There is so much win in this poorly written post . I approve of this message .

Edit: Also , who keeps ressurecting this thread? Isn't that against forum rules?