Dark Souls - More like Dark Trolls

[IronMit]

i hated the crystal caves, i kept slipping of the edge mid combat, but i didn't feel like the game was strait trolling me at all, except when i was first learning the ropes (tried to fight the first boss twice before i saw the door) or when i first tried the hellkite dragon, charged him so many times, always burning to death in the flames.

* Enemy autoaims/glitchy hitboxes
Some enemies/bosses can autotrack you, which means that even if you dodge their attack they can WHILE swinging the weapon; autoadjust its swing so that it hits you anyway. This is particulary true to the behavior of some Dark Knights such as Rock Havel but also other bosses. It means that unless you are doing pixel-perfect timing when doding you are going to take a hit.
* The Skeleton Dogs in Tombs of the Giants
They are the bane of my existence. These fuckers have a special attack that ignores both your shield and armor that one-hit kills you. Oh, and they use that special attack over and over and over again. The damage these fuckers output is larger than any boss in the game, oh and you are fighting SERVERAL of them... IN THE DARK WHERE YOU CAN'T SEE SHIT... AT ONCE... The troll is strong with this one

i never noticed any of the hit box problems you mentioned, i found dodging Havel the rock really easy, even in his gear, please elaborate on what you meant by autotrack. and with the Skeleton dogs i never had any trouble with them, though that might just be because by that point i had a max level fire gargoyle halberd that killed almost all enemy in one or two hits.

what kind of character did you use?

There's 2 parts to any swing. draw back and then the strike. Basically when you parry they need to be in the second part of their attack animation-but you already know this.

If you roll before Havel enters the second portion he will reposition his swing. There is a lot a leeway. If he enters the attack animation whilst you are half way through your roll you may still evade him.

Basically OP rolls before the enemy even swings and is upset they account for it. lol

Havel can be a bit tricky if you have not figured it out though..sometimes he pauses with his dragon tooth up top begging you to roll early so he can end you.

OP also hasn't figured out shield stability, probably thinking his buckler shield should tank giant skeleton 2 handed hits
And that shields block certain percentages of magic, fire etc..so he prob tries to block magic attacks but only blocks 20% of it.

OP is playing the game like a typical hack and slasher

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Bone Wheels can be blocked, just like Giant Skeleton Dogs can be blocked. Get a halfway decent shield and pump more than 20 Endurance and they're entirely blockable. Either hope to get lucky and find a Black Knight Shield or alternatively upgrade a Spider Shield. Hell, I block them with Heater Shields. I'm sorry, but they aren't quite as difficult and OP as you're painting them.

I didn't say they were difficult, I said they were cheap. And indeed, once I went "Well fuck it, I'll just dodge these things" they were pretty much dead-bones. But, as I said, I didn't see "from three miles away" that dodging is the more reliable course of action, so this "Oh but DS is fair" is just hogwash. And it doesn't have anything to do with difficulty in the first place, the game in general isn't exactly "difficult" once you get past the clunky controls (M&K, and don't tell me to "just play with a controller" because if I wanted to play with a controller, I'd get a console) and once you know what you're doing, it's not really "difficult".

Bone Wheels are only cheap if you're caught by surprise. Of course you "didn't see from three miles away that dodging was the reliable course of action." Seeing an attack from three miles away =/= instantly being able to tell how to defend against it. Telegraphing an attack =/= showing you how to defend against said attack. When an opponent telegraphs their attack, you know they're about to attack you! So you didn't know that blocking wasn't a reliable way to defend against a Bone Wheel, for you. Well once you find out that doesn't work, you use another tactic. Dark Souls is harsh, not unfair. You're not going to know everything right off the bat but things get easier as you go.

And not everyone thinks the controls are clunky. Contrary to popular belief, I think they're tight, responsive and work very well. I'm not going to tell you to get a controller, either. If M&K works for you then by all means. I might be a minority, but Dark Souls wasn't particularly difficult when I didn't know what I was doing(which probably comes from several weeks worth of Demon's Souls experience, I dunno).

 

[IronMit]

Ive heard this one shot myth before but never seen it happen myself or seen it happen in a lets play. Ive played as far as New game+8 and Ive yet to see normal mobs 1 shot me. You know what? Im just going to throw down the gauntlet, show us this mythical 1 shotting that you say is so prevelant in the game. Make us a video, show us your stats before it happens and go get one shot. Till I see that Im calling that for what it is, nonsense

If your lightening defence and vitality sucks balls and you don't have your shield up...then it is entirely possible to get one shotted by giant Ornstein's AOE attack. But then you should feel bad for having such a poor build.


What's more worrying is if the OP actually played all the way to that boss battle? That's the half way point of the game...the sharper difficulty curve. who plays a game they don't like that much?
His either researching and trolling or something is wrong with him.

 

[CAMDAWG]

* Bed of Chaos is pretty much a death sentence once you get hit

While bed of chaos is tough to recover from, it is by no means a death sentence. And anyway, the whole point of that boss is to test maneuverability and avoiding damage. It makes sense for him to do high damage in few attacks.

Besides, just about any greatshield will block both swings and leave you some stamina to play with.

* Serveral bosses can stun-lock on you every hit making the first hit pretty much an insta kill
This happened to me with Artorias, Bed of Chaos, Capra Demon etc.

Only depending on your build. Poise is the stat that determines whether or not you are stunned. You can choose to either go high poise, slow speed, and avoid the stuns, or go low poise, high speed and just dodge the attack.

* Both butt-slams on Ornstein and Smogh in enhanced formed are insta-kill

Nope, they do high damage, and can kill you in one hit, but are not insta-kills. With high enough def/vit you can easily survive. Or again, dodge. The only instakill in the game is from environmental traps, falls, or the mimic chest.

* Ceaseless Discharge tentacle attacks can instakill you. And on top of that he can breathe fire through walls so the moment you think you have time enough to re-heal, BAM! - you are dead.

see above

* Kalameets flames are all insta kill if they stun lock you and his AoE can hit you serveral times killing you instantly if you are under him
Also, if you are affected by his de-buff spell, all his moves are insta-kill

Kalameet's only got an instakill if you try and fight him before gough shoots him down. AS for the rest, see above.

* One of Manus spells is pretty much instakill unless you use the Silver Amulet.

again, one hit kill, not instakill. And it's hardly a tough thing to overcome when there's an item that completely negates any effect it can have.

I could go on and on but my point is very clear - they are serveral bosses as well as enemies that have insta-kill moves.
I am not making this up.

I experienced all these on New Game+ when I'm at level 122 with full heavy armor AND using the ring of steel and protection.

I call BS here. There is no way that you can have heavy armour, ring of steel, and be lvl 122, and NOT survive a hit from ceaseless discharge unless you managed your stats far worse than anything I have ever seen or done myself.

dog snip

First, never have I seen an attack go around a shield unless it comes from a shotel or an aoe attack that lands behind you. The "right angle" for your shield is simply the angle you lock on at. Stamina being drained too quickly means you need a shield with higher stability. Again, you either stack poise and shield stability, or you dodge attacks. You need to be able to comprehend the abilities of your build, and play accordingly.

Well only the chosen ones are worthy to beat DS in new game plus, so if you have trouble there, you're obviously not good enough, not a true gamer, and should simply hang your head in shame and submit to the ridicule of the aforementioned chosen ones.

Of course they won't ridicule you openly, but around here the standard practice is that if you don't like some things Dark Souls does, its fans will go on and on about how it's all your fault.

Use the search bar for past DS threads to see what I mean.

While there are some dark souls elitists floating around, you need to bear in mind what the thread creator is saying (and what he/she has said in previous threads. See: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.397964-Why-Dark-Souls-isnt-a-good-game-a-Hardcore-gamers-reaction-to-first-playthrough?page=1). He/she has not said "These things kill me, I do not like them", but rather "These things kill me, they must be poor game design". I have no problem with people not liking something because it is too difficult for them. I don't like soul calibur because it is too difficult for me (because I suck at 2d fighting games), and I'm allowed to hold that position. But I do not get to go around declaring that it is bad game design because it is too difficult for me.

Plus, when it comes down to it, NG+ is actually far, far easier than NG with the exception of one or two bosses, provided you've retained even a small amount of sanity while leveling up. There is no reason why someone should be able to get through NG and not find NG+ a cakewalk.

 

[Jellly]

The game world in Souls is harsh and unforgiving. You can't just wander into an area and succeed. It's designed to look easy and appealing as a path only for you to find out you can't handle it as you are. That may well be your first proper experience of the world - You are not a god. You are not free to wander aimlessly and be safe. There are dangers everywhere, and while this is obviously a path you will take, you are not ready. It doesn't pop up in some screen, some omnipotent NPC doesn't psychically message you, and no invisible wall pops up. It teaches you by handing your ass to you, which makes the drive to explore even stronger.

Sadly, the paradigm shift in gaming in recent years seems to have eroded that sense of future achievement and challenge away, so people cry out that "Oooh, skeleton path is trolling! Waaaah it was my first experience in DS, I'm not playing anymore! :'(" instead of thinking "I'm going to come back here later and fuck you skinny bastards up". When you return to it later in the game with your earned skills and knowledge and shiny new gear, you feel a genuine sense of achievement and satisfaction when slaying them.

I still feel giddy when I fight through Blighttown, Crystal Palace or bosses like Ornstein/Smough with no trouble because I improved.

This is what I loved about this game and demon souls. In demon souls I ragequit at the first dragon. I was playing it completely wrong, thinking it would be like Elder Scrolls difficulty levels. Came back to it a week later and decided what the hell I only had it for a few more days (borrowed demon souls) so I booted it up but took my time. I learnt how to defeat the enemies by observing. My favorite moments in demon souls were learning about the world. I remember fondly first encountering the Mind Flayers in 3-1. I cautiously approached it and it jumped at me and instakilled me.

I think Dark Souls they got the atmosphere of the game spot on, even more so than Demon Souls. I truly felt like just another undead. There was no great journey or some NPC helping me out it. I was just another worthless soul in this vast expansive world which didn't care that I was supposed to be the hero of this game.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Sorry to call you on your complete fucking bullshit but there is not a single boss in the entire game that can one shot you. Boss damage scales based on your max health so that can never happen.
You complaints mostly sound like you suck at dodging.

* Bed of Chaos is pretty much a death sentence once you get hit

* Serveral bosses can stun-lock on you every hit making the first hit pretty much an insta kill
This happened to me with Artorias, Bed of Chaos, Capra Demon etc.

* Both butt-slams on Ornstein and Smogh in enhanced formed are insta-kill

* Ceaseless Discharge tentacle attacks can instakill you. And on top of that he can breathe fire through walls so the moment you think you have time enough to re-heal, BAM! - you are dead.

* Kalameets flames are all insta kill if they stun lock you and his AoE can hit you serveral times killing you instantly if you are under him
Also, if you are affected by his de-buff spell, all his moves are insta-kill

* One of Manus spells is pretty much instakill unless you use the Silver Amulet.

I could go on and on but my point is very clear - they are serveral bosses as well as enemies that have insta-kill moves.
I am not making this up.

I experienced all these on New Game+ when I'm at level 122 with full heavy armor AND using the ring of steel and protection.

Oh - regarding the Skeleton Dogs.
On the Dark Souls wiki [http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Tomb+of+Giants] this is listed:

The main danger of these enemies lies in their forward flurry attack that has significant range and seems to ignore all armour other than shield (need confirmation, but regardless the damage is insane). It is sometimes possible to block all the damage from this attack (eating most of your stamina) by facing at the right angle with your shield up, but it seems that the attack can sometimes reach around the shield, dealing very heavy damage.

Even with heavy armor and the ring of Steel Protection their charge flurry move is instant death if it connects.
I have on many occations tried to block their attacks and the result is always the same, the attack is so powerful that it drains my stamina instantly, shield is dropped and I take the one-hit-kill instantly resulting in death. Their bites usually stunlocks me so if the first connects; all of the 4 ones will connect resulting in death.

I had huge problems with them in Normal Game as well in New Game+.
I tried using a Fire Murakumo +10 but regardless it takes 2 hits to kill them.
So I prefer using the Black Knight Halbard +5 that also kills them in 2 hits but gives me a slightly better range.

They are still the cheapest enemy in the game in my opinion and I hate them with a passion.

A few of those boss "instakills" can be solved with a few upgrades to Vitality. Ceaseless Discharge, Ornstein, Smough, Artorias and the Capra Demon have never killed me in one shot or killed me with a single combo. Not even in NG+.

Now, I won't deny that Giant Skeleton Dogs are indeed quite deadly. I do, however, have to correct you on their flurry attack. I typically roll around in Elite Knight and when I've got it upgraded to a decent level, Giant Skeleton Dogs can't kill me with a single flurry attack(I don't know about NG+, I'm not foolish enough to let them hit me with it to begin with). And I'm not quite sure what your deal with being unable to block them, is. Obviously you need a stronger shield if they're exhausting all your stamina with a single flurry. With a Greatshield of Artorias+5 I can block their whole flurry attack and have enough stamina to kill them afterward(I'm only assuming that you're using a Greatshield if you're rollin' some heavy armor).

 

[Ringo_Plumen]

I've been playing DS on NG+ recently, was surprised at how easy it all seemed to be honest, only bosses that caused me trouble was Manus, for some reason I am unable to act properly even though I know how to avoid his shit, he messes with my head.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Manus is my nemesis...
The biggest troll moment for me is without a doubt how dying on Dark Sun Gwyndolin works. Regardless of where you rested you get ported to Anor Londo bonfire where the firekeeper is now hostile, and you had to move the walkway so you have to go the long way around...

I will agree the auto aim of the enemies isn't perfect, but this usually only goes wrong when I've accidentally gotten a little too close and do some evasive stuff and they pull some strange spinning on their own axis trick and end up landing their attack in the opposite direction of where I end up yet still hitting me, but I use a tanky str build so it will almost never oneshot me.

In regards to Havel you will notice if you use the Dragon Tooth or another Great Hammer that your attacks work the same way, with auto aim enabled you will readjust your swing to wards your target after the pre-swing or what you might call it.

 

[Sunrider]

I've been playing DS on NG+ recently, was surprised at how easy it all seemed to be honest, only bosses that caused me trouble was Manus, for some reason I am unable to act properly even though I know how to avoid his shit, he messes with my head.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Manus is my nemesis...
The biggest troll moment for me is without a doubt how dying on Dark Sun Gwyndolin works. Regardless of where you rested you get ported to Anor Londo bonfire where the firekeeper is now hostile, and you had to move the walkway so you have to go the long way around...

I will agree the auto aim of the enemies isn't perfect, but this usually only goes wrong when I've accidentally gotten a little too close and do some evasive stuff and they pull some strange spinning on their own axis trick and end up landing their attack in the opposite direction of where I end up yet still hitting me, but I use a tanky str build so it will almost never oneshot me.

In regards to Havel you will notice if you use the Dragon Tooth or another Great Hammer that your attacks work the same way, with auto aim enabled you will readjust your swing to wards your target after the pre-swing or what you might call it.

Agreed about Manus and NG+.
There are some ways around your problems with Gwyndolin however. You can attack him without having Anor Londo go dark by using the Darkmoon Seance Ring. If Anor Londo has gone dark, you can go to the bonfire closest to him, activate it, send the bridge back up and then attack him. If you die, run across the bridge, into the room where you fought Ornstein & Smough, use the Chamber of the Princess bonfire to warp to the Darkmoon Tomb one and then attack him again.
I realize this takes some time too, but it's at least not nearly as annoying as taking the ceiling route through the Cathedral.

 

[CyberAkuma]

I beat Manus solo on NG+ on my first try. I didn't think he was particulary difficult at all.
I realized that using Power Within is kinda stupid concidering how long the fight is and how much health it will eat up so I went in unbuffed. Manus has afterall the most health in the entire game.

I beat him using the Black Knight Halberd using light armor. The only difficult attack he has are the spells but with the silver amulet they are no cause for concern what so ever I think.

Kalameet however is a real bastard

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

If you're getting one-shotted by anything you're probably playing wrong.
Get some heavy armor, get a good shield, get a spear.
That is how you play properly.
Dodging is for chumps.

Blasphemy. Blocking is for chumps. Trolling the bosses by rolling around the area like a maniac is priceless. "Invincibility frames, *****!"

 

[Goro]

Ceaseless discharge? There's an enemy called ceaseless discharge?! Ha... Haha.. Hahahahahahahaah!
It's one weakness is penicillin.
Otherwise, I really should play this game.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

If you're pulling more than one skeleton dog at a time you're basically just not pulling carefully enough. If you're going the block everything rather than dodge everything route, then you want to get the ring that halves armour weight and then wear something with tons of poise, like the stone knight armour, and then make use of any spare slots to improve stamina regen. You should be fine. The enemy arrows track you because writing enemy AI that's good at predicting player movements would be freaking horrible, and because the projectiles move slowly enough that you can easily dodge them anyway.
Basically, everything is working as intended. Fuck Ornstein and Smough though.

 

[Diablo2000]

Sorry to call you on your complete fucking bullshit but there is not a single boss in the entire game that can one shot you. Boss damage scales based on your max health so that can never happen.
You complaints mostly sound like you suck at dodging.

* Bed of Chaos is pretty much a death sentence once you get hit

* Serveral bosses can stun-lock on you every hit making the first hit pretty much an insta kill
This happened to me with Artorias, Bed of Chaos, Capra Demon etc.

* Both butt-slams on Ornstein and Smogh in enhanced formed are insta-kill

* Ceaseless Discharge tentacle attacks can instakill you. And on top of that he can breathe fire through walls so the moment you think you have time enough to re-heal, BAM! - you are dead.

* Kalameets flames are all insta kill if they stun lock you and his AoE can hit you serveral times killing you instantly if you are under him
Also, if you are affected by his de-buff spell, all his moves are insta-kill

* One of Manus spells is pretty much instakill unless you use the Silver Amulet.

I could go on and on but my point is very clear - they are serveral bosses as well as enemies that have insta-kill moves.
I am not making this up.

I experienced all these on New Game+ when I'm at level 122 with full heavy armor AND using the ring of steel and protection.

Oh - regarding the Skeleton Dogs.
On the Dark Souls wiki [http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Tomb+of+Giants] this is listed:

The main danger of these enemies lies in their forward flurry attack that has significant range and seems to ignore all armour other than shield (need confirmation, but regardless the damage is insane). It is sometimes possible to block all the damage from this attack (eating most of your stamina) by facing at the right angle with your shield up, but it seems that the attack can sometimes reach around the shield, dealing very heavy damage.

Even with heavy armor and the ring of Steel Protection their charge flurry move is instant death if it connects.
I have on many occations tried to block their attacks and the result is always the same, the attack is so powerful that it drains my stamina instantly, shield is dropped and I take the one-hit-kill instantly resulting in death. Their bites usually stunlocks me so if the first connects; all of the 4 ones will connect resulting in death.

I had huge problems with them in Normal Game as well in New Game+.
I tried using a Fire Murakumo +10 but regardless it takes 2 hits to kill them.
So I prefer using the Black Knight Halbard +5 that also kills them in 2 hits but gives me a slightly better range.

They are still the cheapest enemy in the game in my opinion and I hate them with a passion.[/quote]

122 and there are many things one shooting you... What exactly did you put those points in? Resistance? Otherwise I think is not possibly so many things one shot you, specially using a heavy armor. I have a Mage using light armor (Beatrice Set in case you wondering, Beatrice had fucking style. Good defense for light armor too), about 20 vitality and 28 endurance(boosted using the Ring of Favor and Protection though) and none of those things could one shot me even NG+.
I think maybe something went horribly wrong with your build or you accidently downloaded a "super hard mode" mod for the game...

 

[SlaveNumber23]

When I am invaded I qucikly gesture upwards, that usually causes them to bow/do that gesture that makes you look like a wanker. Whilst they are busy with that I sprint up and carve them up with the zweihander, which results in them dying and me continuing on my way unmolested.

Haha fair enough, its really not much fun getting invaded and then being stabbed in the back by someone who to your perspective was directly in front of you, the synchronization problems really ruin the multiplayer in Dark Souls.

Also you could join the blade of the darkmoon covenant which lets you invade only people who invade others and bring them to justice.

 

[verdant monkai]

Also you could join the blade of the darkmoon covenant which lets you invade only people who invade others and bring them to justice.

Yeah that's a good idea. I would have done it the first time but I decided to go for the Princess guard, which apparently consists of me and about four other horny idiots. I did think about switching but she had promised me protection (which I never got) and I thought she may get annoyed if I left her club. Although apparently she doesn't really care and just repeats the same dialogue "Oh CHOSEN UNDEAD...."

 

[6_Qubed]

Dark Souls is a game I have never beaten, will probably never beat, and only bring out once in a blue moon, when I need to be punished for being a bad boy.

However when I do, I am certain to disconnect the router from my XBox first.

 

[Diablo2000]

Also you could join the blade of the darkmoon covenant which lets you invade only people who invade others and bring them to justice.

Yeah that's a good idea. I would have done it the first time but I decided to go for the Princess guard, which apparently consists of me and about four other horny idiots. I did think about switching but she had promised me protection (which I never got) and I thought she may get annoyed if I left her club. Although apparently she doesn't really care and just repeats the same dialogue "Oh CHOSEN UNDEAD...."

Spoiler

She's not real, the boobs are a LIE!A LIE! OK, not really since the real boobs is alive somewhere out there, but the two in the chamber are in fact a lie

Also you do get to use the two healing miracles that you get in the Dukes Archives if you join the Princess's (She call's herself "Queen of the Sunlight, so don't know what the "Princess" part is all about) Guard, one of then is actually pretty useful if you plan in engaging in jolly co-operation, not very useful, but useful.

 

[Dango]

The more I read these threads the more I think people start up Dark Souls, die a few times, and decide to just not like anything in the game ever again.