Dating norms need to change

[B-Rye]

If you want a change then you best just look for a girl who thinks a long the same lines. However in all honesty, it seems like you just want the opportunity handed to you on a silver platter. However, a wise man once said "Nothing in this world worth having is easy to get". Sure you can find some exceptions, but you get the point.

Traditional dating, blind dates, and the media's image of what a relationship should be are hardly that fun. Seek opportunity, be the initiator. That does not mean you have to be completely traditional. Think outside the box.

I don't know who said it on this forum, but definitely develop a skill.

Music is a good way to meet people.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

Because guys want it more that women.

This is so entirely not true. There is empirical and physiological evidence to support the fact that girls want it more.

Well, there's statistical evidence that support the fact that more guys want it enough to ask the other out.

That evidence does not support men wanting it more. It supports the fact that men asking women out is the social norm, but that's something we have already covered.

That social norm itself is essentially the 1950's mentality coming back to bite us on the ass. Back then men called the shots. They went after the girls and decided what the date would be. It was an ignorant age when women were treated like third class citizens. Women didn't have to say yes to a date, but if they liked a guy, there was a huge social stigma to asking the guy out.

Now we are paying for the mistakes of our grandfathers. Fortunately, most women aren't silly or vindictive enough to make this a problem. The 90's where the start of a new age, and 20 years later, I have to say, I like how far we've come. It would be nice to see Americans become less repressed now, but that's a completely different topic.

I do, however, apologize for not actually stating what the empirical and physiological evidence I spoke of was. I really dont want to get into it. Iv spend enough time in this thread, and there are better people to run a seminar on this than me.

Because guys want it more that women.

This is so entirely not true. There is empirical and physiological evidence to support the fact that girls want it more.

Well, there's statistical evidence that support the fact that more guys want it enough to ask the other out.

yeah, I kinda gotta tip a hat here, although I truly believe the empirical data, romance doesn't happen in a test tube. Unless you're Michael Jackson.

That cracked me up!

 

[Dr Snakeman]

are you aware that you sound exactly like a rapist?

Okay, I completely agree with you, but that line just made me crack up for some reason. I'm still laughing.

I'm going to start asking people that whenever they say something creepy. It's just... so perfect.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

If you were a satin bowerbird you could just woo women by showing them your rad collection of blue shit.

*sigh* Yeah... being a human being is hard. Animal courtship rituals are so much easier.

 

[That Greek Guy]

is a chick does any of those she will be considered a slut.

 

[Altorin]

If you were a satin bowerbird you could just woo women by showing them your rad collection of blue shit.

*sigh* Yeah... being a human being is hard. Animal courtship rituals are so much easier.

no they aren't. The very idea of evolution through natural selection dictates that ALL courtships, in every species, are fucking difficult as hell. Some animals kill for mates, others are extremely picky about weird things, and if you don't have those weird things, you are absolutely out of the game. And most of those weird things are physical features.

If you think HUMANS are shallow when it comes to appearances, those same birds are RIDICULOUSLY shallow.

edit: it occurs to me that you were perhaps being facetious.

In that case *offers a pint*

 

[Kelz0r]

Hmm, I'm tasting a lot of bitterness.

I met my girlfriend because she overheard me complaining loudly about Spiderman: One More Day and came over to talk about it. Our first day was at my house to watch Star Wars.

Love doesn't have to happen the way Hollywood tells you - and rarely does.

I tried the same thing your girlfriend did, sort of. I tried to interact with a guy who was with friends talking about Skyrim. I decided to chime in because I'm very interested in it too.

So it goes like:

Me: "Oooh, Skyrim! I'm so psyched for that game. Did you guys play Oblivion?"

Guys: "o______o"

Me: "...Kay."

Utter failure. I mean, that's just one instance and not enough to discourage me, but a lot of times I think guys are full of it when they say they want a girl to approach them.

 

[Altorin]

Hmm, I'm tasting a lot of bitterness.

I met my girlfriend because she overheard me complaining loudly about Spiderman: One More Day and came over to talk about it. Our first day was at my house to watch Star Wars.

Love doesn't have to happen the way Hollywood tells you - and rarely does.

I tried the same thing your girlfriend did, sort of. I tried to interact with a guy who was with friends talking about Skyrim. I decided to chime in because I'm very interested in it too.

So it goes like:

Me: "Oooh, Skyrim! I'm so psyched for that game. Did you guys play Oblivion?"

Guys: "o______o"

Me: "...Kay."

Utter failure. I mean, that's just one instance and not enough to discourage me, but a lot of times I think guys are full of it when they say they want a girl to approach them.

They do (generally, maybe that guy didn't), they're just shocked whenever it happens.

If it's any consolation, if it were me, I'd totally have talked to you about Skyrim. I'm not ascared of girls that talk to me, just the ones that don't. I imagine there's a large block of guys with my mindset out there, so keep on truckin'.

 

[Nudu]

She controls if and when you get to touch her

You know, maybe that just came out wrong, but that part I don't think needs to change.

 

[the Dept of Science]

This date, although you've done all the hard work... she's still in control, she's always in control. She controls if and when you get to touch her, kiss her, walk her up to her door and maybe get invited in.

Here lies the problem in your attitude.

The only realm in which I believe that feminism doesn't apply is in dating. In this realm, we are hard wired to find certain things attractive, which can't be undone by any amount of logic or social conditioning.
One of those things is that the guy should be in control. While a girl does decide whether she reciprocates your actions, you should be making the first move in every situation. You should be the one to approach her, the one to communicate that you are interested, the one who asks her out and the one that kisses her. If you sit around thinking "man, that girl is cute, I hope that she asks me out", you are acting like a pussy.
Dance is the worlds oldest mating ritual, and there is not a single partnered dance in the world where the girl takes the lead. Ballroom, latin, swing. In every one the guy is in charge, because when it comes to sex, that is his rightful position. His job is to control her and there is nothing a woman finds sexier than a man who is in control.*

You are sitting there thinking that that doesn't sound fair, because you have this impression that an attractive woman doesn' put any work into finding the right guy.
That's just plain wrong. Compare your average women's magazine (eg. Cosmo) and your average men's magazine (eg. Nuts). Cosmo is stocked full of articles about how to find, attract and keep "Mr Right".
You know why that is. Because a lot of the men they date turn out to be not ideal men. Maybe they aren't sweet and caring, maybe they aren't that interesting.
Nuts is just like "Hey, your a man, keep being awesome! Here's some pictures of motorbikes and tits".

Where are the "Mr Right"s then? Well... there isn't that much of them around. You may think you are a sweet caring guy, but that just isn't enough. Being sweet and caring counts for shit if you are a massive nerd who spends long hours playing videogames. Its not an attractive lifestyle. It also counts for shit if you have no balls and sit around complaining that it isn't the girls that make the first move.
You may have noticed that attractive girls have a tendency to date guys who you probably think are twats. Well, yea, they may not be as sweet and caring as the girls would like, but they are the guys with confidence, who actually go out there and put themselves on the line. They put themselves in situations where they meet lots of women, they get a decent amount of experience with women and they generally have enough redeeming qualities so that they seem like a better option than the no-balls nerds they could date.

*edit: rereading that, it sounds like I'm encouraging rape, in a sort of "go for it, whether she wants it or not".
That's not what I'm saying. When I say "be in control" I refer to initiating actions. The girl has control over whether she reciprocates. If she doesn't reciprocate, it means YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. If you are upfront and straightforward about your intentions, take her on a date, build attraction and sexual tension, then she will reciprocate your actions. If you take her on a shit date and act like a pussy, then she has every right to refuse to kiss you. It's your fault not hers.

 

[Blind Sight]

I'm more focused on the problem of having to cover everything in a relationship.

Anyone else have this problem? The girl expects you to pay for everything? I'm currently dating someone who doesn't do that, I'm lucky, but in my experience I've found there's a lot of women who expect men to pay for everything.

 

[Fearzone]

Regarding the OP, it is rare that I read a post so utterly misconceived I don't know where to start.

You are speaking of women as you want them to be in some fantasy world of yours. You will need to accept them as they are.

Yes, in real relationships, being a woman is totally imba. That is all. Good luck!

It is a system driven by our fundamental instincts, refined by evolution over eons, and while it may be frustrating and overwhelming and hard to figure out, it doesn't suck.

 

[hailfire]

this comment almost made me shit my pants of fear. you want to change the dating system! it's the only damn societal norm that hasn't been completely destroyed and you want to change it? news flash, the fifties was awesome. with the exception of sexism and racism, everything that came from the fifties was awesome as well.

I get the feeling you don't like the dating system because you are either really horny or really shy. maybe both. after all, only a pussy would hate a system where you have total control over who you ask out and when; a system where you make the first move; and a system where you get to be the strong indepentent one and she has to be the relient meek one. as for the horny thing, i got that from the fact that you said she shouldn't have the right to tell you not to touch or kiss her. if that's what you meant that that's pretty messed up, but if you just meant you wanted that right too, than you're probably gay, because i don't know any man who would reject a kiss from a cute girl.

grow up and be a man. the system is designed for men and women to fill the roles they're good at, so if you don't like it, it's probably because you're not a man.

 

[Crazy]

You're absolutely right! These silly traditions mean nothing! I think if we ask them out they should say yes no matter what! They have boyfriend/girlfriend? Three-way! Not "ready"? They'll be ready after the first night! Make it happen, society!

 

[Altorin]

this comment almost made me shit my pants of fear. you want to change the dating system! it's the only damn societal norm that hasn't been completely destroyed and you want to change it? news flash, the fifties was awesome. with the exception of sexism and racism, everything that came from the fifties was awesome as well.

I get the feeling you don't like the dating system because you are either really horny or really shy. maybe both. after all, only a pussy would hate a system where you have total control over who you ask out and when; a system where you make the first move; and a system where you get to be the strong indepentent one and she has to be the relient meek one. as for the horny thing, i got that from the fact that you said she shouldn't have the right to tell you not to touch or kiss her. if that's what you meant that that's pretty messed up, but if you just meant you wanted that right too, than you're probably gay, because i don't know any man who would reject a kiss from a cute girl.

grow up and be a man. the system is designed for men and women to fill the roles they're good at, so if you don't like it, it's probably because you're not a man.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry or just explode into a radiant burst of colors the spell out WHAT THE FUCK? in the sky.

 

[Spectral Dragon]

I guess it's the norm for men to be more dominant in the dating scene. Doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing, but it limits us in a way. We should have equality, but we have only a close enough illusion. Some like it when their partner is dominant, so let them find one who suits them.

It probably never will be equal, but if you find something that suits you, tha should be enough. No one telling you that's a bad thing just because it's not traditional. It's your life, damn it, fuck whoever you please! I'm not exactly dominant in my relationship, but as long as there's communication going, it's all well. I'm not going to tell you there's a right way for everyone. Find your own and don't condemn others. Shouldn't be harder than that.

If you want to do something, and the other doesn't, then don't. If you both want to, who cares who starts it?

Whoever feels like paying/taking the first step should. Not all guys are confident enough, and some girls make more money. Deal with it or find someone else if that isn't your cup of tea.