Dead or Alive 6: Shimbori confirms team is deliberately reducing sex appeal of female characters

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

I have mixed feelings about this.

I don't like how they framed the artistic decision, saying they did it to make the women characters look "more human" reeks of body shaming and speaks to the problematic, paradoxically body-negative, nature of current trends within the games industry and peripheral media to shame developers who create buxom characters. Somewhere along the line, this demonstrably false idea arose that all women characters in video games are buxom which feeds male gaze and objectification, and that's been employed to witch hunt buxom women characters and the designers who make them. They're not, it doesn't necessarily, and the witch hunt based upon it is ill-conceived and extremely damaging.

Of course, DoA6 is a case of its own. Sure, within the context of that game women's body types lack diversity: you have "buxom waif" and "buxom amazon". Sure, it's a problem, but it's not a problem ideally solved by reducing the bust size of all women characters in the game; they need to diversify the body types represented, and not just bust size.

 

[Marik2]

This is my casual fighting game of choice. Rock-Paper-Scissors game play at it's finest.

If it can refine it's fighting mechanics more, I really don't care how the women are dressed.

Agreed

Of course, DoA6 is a case of its own. Sure, within the context of that game women's body types lack diversity: you have "buxom waif" and "buxom amazon". Sure, it's a problem, but it's not a problem ideally solved by reducing the bust size of all women characters in the game; they need to diversify the body types represented, and not just bust size.

Pretty much. I like Kasumis new body type, but they need to keep Helenas and Tinas measurements, cuz it goes well with their character.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I can't say I'm too bothered because I don't like fanservice under certain circumstances, but mostly because, back when I did play and enjoy DoA, I never did it for the sex appeal. I liked Christie because I loved the way she fought, not because of the jiggle physics. I dunno why DoA ever fell off of my radar, but I'm looking forward to this one. I guess there's still the DoA volleyball game, if you want. Does that game still come to the west?

The last one didn't, but by all accounts the "game" part of it was severely lacking compared to the first two.

It's got an "English" translation for the SEA region though. It was a popular import.

 

[Cicada 5]

Is it because of e-sports or because of articles like this?

https://kotaku.com/at-e3-soulcaliburs-objectified-women-felt-like-a-relic-1826929714

The above mentioned gamespot article is a month after the kotaku article which does the typical gaming "journalism" thing of taking a game on face value alone and bitches about it without history or context of the game as a whole. How can you complain about the outfits being unrealistic in a game where fantasy fighters use magic and fantasy weapons in one-on-one fights?

I find it funny because the game director in the article says, "Hey we weren't TRYING to make the girls sexy." which I believe is true. They weren't trying to make them sexy, but they were trying to make them something they'd like to see. I don't believe these character designs are overtly about sex, though I'm sure there is a part of that, instead I believe it is boys just drawing pretty ladies because they like pretty ladies.

It's the same thing with the comic book thing. You take any 12-year-old boy who realizes he can draw and the last thing he is going to do with his female characters is dress them for trips to the arctic. Instead you get characters like the Witchblade.

I mean come on, is skimpy armor just not allowed anymore? What happened to artistic license? When did this stop being okay?

God maybe we do need to make everything 50/50 for men and women. Maybe after these girls get drafted and have to go fight off the nazi's on Normandy then they to will want to come home and see some titties. Maybe we shove some ladies into the coal mines and let them deal with that oppressive heat and unbreathable air then after work they'll want see skimpy armor. Perhaps woman these days are just board with their mostly safe desk jobs and boring lives that they need to pretend to be offended or harassed just to get a little excitement in their day.

I hope this nonsense stops soon.

Also Soul Caliber is a terrible series as far as fighting games go in general.

It stopped being okay when damn near every female character was drawn with the intention of giving teenage boys erections.

Imagine if every or almost every male character in games was designed to look like Raiden from Metal Gear. That's essentially what we've got with most female characters in games.

 

[Cicada 5]

I'm just wondering what the roster will be like. Hopefully they can include the DLC girls from the last game.

Marie-Rose will probably make it, since she apparently is Shimbori's new body standard (I'm only half-joking here). Honoka might, might not. She's popular in Japan, but she's also a boring character and expressly violates Shimbori's new design direction.

Nyotengu, Mai Shiranui, Natori Il are all probably out of luck. As is Rachel.

OK? This isn't a big deal at all. If they want to make DoA less sexy, that's fine. But they're not doing this for "inclusivity" as the big reason, they want in on the Esports craze.

They literally talk about doing it for inclusivity in the article.

I really did enjoy playing as Rachel. Hope she comes back some time.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Not that I give a shit about the series but isn't sex appeal the whole point? Or am I getting my exploitative J-sims confused?

 

[Paragon Fury]

As an FYI, DOA5: Last Round is free on Steam right now, in case anyone wants to discover or relive the glory days of the franchise.

*edit* argh, it?s just the base game with only four characters unlocked and no story mode, but I went and purchased that with a few extra characters. I already got seven achievements after about an hour. It?s fun for me since I?ve only really played MK in the last ten years or so for fighting games. The button layout is the biggest thing to get used to especially after MK.

 

[Paragon Fury]

As an FYI, DOA5: Last Round is free on Steam right now, in case anyone wants to discover or relive the glory days of the franchise.

*edit* argh, it?s just the base game with only four characters unlocked and no story mode, but I went and purchased that with a few extra characters. I already got seven achievements after about an hour. It?s fun for me since I?ve only really played MK in the last ten years or so for fighting games. The button layout is the biggest thing to get used to especially after MK.

TN made it so that the "Core Fighters" version of the game is free-to-play on all Platforms. You only get 4 characters and lack most features though.

Not that I give a shit about the series but isn't sex appeal the whole point? Or am I getting my exploitative J-sims confused?

Nope, not confusing anything. Kinda the reason why DoA retained any popularity, while something like Virtua Fighter went tits up.

The thing is....I can't see what DoA would be without it's sex appeal.

"Mechanically sound fighting game" doesn't cut it. NO series gets and stays popular because it's a "mechanically sound fighting game". You HAVE to have your unique form/hook to get people to keep coming back.

Mortal Kombat had extreme violence and gore.

Street Fighter basically invented the genre as we know it and has it's iconic characters.

Darkstalkers was SF, but with monsters and sexy monster girls.

Tekken was it's highly technical fighting with good graphics and absurd characters in it's rosters.

MvC was it's absurd roster size and cast of characters from CAPCOM and Marvel combined with 3v3 fighting.

Arcsys games like GG thrive off their aesthetic and attention to detail.

Etc. etc.

DoA was known and thrived off it's great graphics and sex appeal. You take that away and you just have....a bland, technically competent fighter. The same as if MK's violence was toned down.

 

[BrawlMan]

I don't know why my posts were deleted, since they were never off topic and on point. I'll say it again, who the hell cares if there is slightly less fan-service. You're still getting what you want, and there is going to be a whole bunch of costume DLC like the last game. Which reached in over $1000 in DLC. That part worries me more than anything else. As long as the game play is great, and it is looking at all the footage I have seen, it ain't a situation of life and death some people on this board are making out to be.

I already told Critical Gaming that the SJWs/Feminiists are not taking "MAI VIDDYAGEAMEZ!". If they weren't interested before, I doubt they would be interested now. Nor did they "take" Marvel or Star Wars. And Critical, if you are reading this, I meant in terms of the Marvel movies, not the comics. I can't comment on comics, because I don't even bother to keep up with them. For those bitching over nothing, yew can do it da easy way, or da hard way? Da choice is yawz. Buy the new game, or don't. There are plenty of other options, if you choose not to.

 

[wings012]

I feel the direction with DoA6 seems a bit disingenuous when they have Dead or Alive Xtreme: Venus Vacation going on.

 

[Cicada 5]

As an FYI, DOA5: Last Round is free on Steam right now, in case anyone wants to discover or relive the glory days of the franchise.

*edit* argh, it?s just the base game with only four characters unlocked and no story mode, but I went and purchased that with a few extra characters. I already got seven achievements after about an hour. It?s fun for me since I?ve only really played MK in the last ten years or so for fighting games. The button layout is the biggest thing to get used to especially after MK.

TN made it so that the "Core Fighters" version of the game is free-to-play on all Platforms. You only get 4 characters and lack most features though.

Not that I give a shit about the series but isn't sex appeal the whole point? Or am I getting my exploitative J-sims confused?

Nope, not confusing anything. Kinda the reason why DoA retained any popularity, while something like Virtua Fighter went tits up.

The thing is....I can't see what DoA would be without it's sex appeal.

"Mechanically sound fighting game" doesn't cut it. NO series gets and stays popular because it's a "mechanically sound fighting game". You HAVE to have your unique form/hook to get people to keep coming back.

Mortal Kombat had extreme violence and gore.

Street Fighter basically invented the genre as we know it and has it's iconic characters.

Darkstalkers was SF, but with monsters and sexy monster girls.

Tekken was it's highly technical fighting with good graphics and absurd characters in it's rosters.

MvC was it's absurd roster size and cast of characters from CAPCOM and Marvel combined with 3v3 fighting.

Arcsys games like GG thrive off their aesthetic and attention to detail.

Etc. etc.

DoA was known and thrived off it's great graphics and sex appeal. You take that away and you just have....a bland, technically competent fighter. The same as if MK's violence was toned down.

Tbf, Darkstalkers is a rather niche title compared to even DOA. The only thing keeping it in the public eye is Morrigan's appearance in MvC. There's a number of games with unique hooks that fall to the wayside like Primal Fury and Bloody Roar. It's not impossible for DOA to lose the sex appeal and still remain popular, especially if they keep the ninjas. I'm sure people like those as much as they like bouncing breasts.

 

[CritialGaming]

I don't know why my posts were deleted, since they were never off topic and on point. I'll say it again, who the hell cares if there is slightly less fan-service. You're still getting what you want, and there is going to be a whole bunch of costume DLC like the last game. Which reached in over $1000 in DLC. That part worries me more than anything else. As long as the game play is great, and it is looking at all the footage I have seen, it ain't a situation of life and death some people on this board are making out to be.

I already told Critical Gaming that the SJWs/Feminiists are not taking "MAI VIDDYAGEAMEZ!". If they weren't interested before, I doubt they would be interested now. Nor did they "take" Marvel or Star Wars. And Critical, if you are reading this, I meant in terms of the Marvel movies, not the comics. I can't comment on comics, because I don't even bother to keep up with them. For those bitching over nothing, yew can do it da easy way, or da hard way? Da choice is yawz. Buy the new game, or don't. There are plenty of other options, if you choose not to.

It's not about them TAKING my "VIDDYAGEAMEZ", it was never about that. It is about these people demanding shit changes to suit THEM. Nevermind what the developers wanted to create, never mind what the fans have grown used to in the series or even look forward to series content, these people look at something and instead of doing exactly what you just said and not buying it...they instead DEMAND that the game change, that the developers change their vision of the game to suit what these people deam to be okay.

Sadly they don't even want to buy or even play the game in the first place. Like Anita Sark, they just want to label everything sexist and oppressive when they don't actually give a shit about gaming in the first place.

I wouldn't have a problem if this was a movement highlighting a legit problem, like racism or sexist in real world game development. Like when people accused Quantum Dream and David CAge of sexism, I just nodded and said, "Yeah that's fucked up and shouldn't ever happen."

Game characters aren't real people or even real things. They are computer programs, ones and zeros, this isn't sexism this isn't the objectification of women. These women compete on equal footing with their male counterparts, they just happen to be good looking which I don't understand why it's a problem. You can point to their outfits, but I don't understand how a tight form fitting outfit on a woman is sexism and objectification but that same outfit on a rippling strong muscle man is fine.

People can claim it's for equality all they want, but that isn't the truth. The fact is these people wanted the women treated in a very unique and special way, where they somehow have to be strong, smart, brave, attractive, heroic, capable, self-reliant, all while also not being abused, objectified, sexualized, and any other negative buzzwords. And you and I BOTH know that no female character will EVER hit the mark that is acceptable to these people.

And perhaps that is what upsets me the most, the constant shifting of the goalpost. I thought the new Tomb Raider series was great as Lara overcomes a world of shit, but then people say "Lara never takes control, she only ever reacts and never show her power on her own," which baffles me. How else do you expect the story to be interesting, if Lara is just a badass and can single-handedly run around and take down an army without conflict upon herself, then what's the point? Also isn't that exactly what the old school Lara was, confident and capable and never on the receiving end of any adversity, yet because she was attractive...it was bad?

I just don't fucking understand it.

 

[CaitSeith]

Is it because of e-sports or because of articles like this?

https://kotaku.com/at-e3-soulcaliburs-objectified-women-felt-like-a-relic-1826929714

Definitely e-sports. e-sports give the publishers & developers way more money than all these articles together cause them to lose. That's a FACT.

 

[Paragon Fury]

I feel the direction with DoA6 seems a bit disingenuous when they have Dead or Alive Xtreme: Venus Vacation going on.

Which is why I believe the main reason they're doing this is for esports, not for inclusivity sakes.

Well, I was curious about the Venus game, and aside from it not even getting a Western release, the reasoning behind it is what?s perhaps most interesting...

Spoiler

Broken translation aside, it?s safe to say they think the West is too prudish to bother, which is sad but true.

 

[CritialGaming]

I feel the direction with DoA6 seems a bit disingenuous when they have Dead or Alive Xtreme: Venus Vacation going on.

Which is why I believe the main reason they're doing this is for esports, not for inclusivity sakes.

Well, I was curious about the Venus game, and aside from it not even getting a Western release, the reasoning behind it is what?s perhaps most interesting...

Spoiler

So they are tired of being bitched at to change their game. So they just wont release a game in the west so that they can continue to make a product that they envision, and want to avoid the nonsense in the West.

Makes sense. I kinda figured that in the first place.

 

[BrawlMan]

I feel the direction with DoA6 seems a bit disingenuous when they have Dead or Alive Xtreme: Venus Vacation going on.

Which is why I believe the main reason they're doing this is for esports, not for inclusivity sakes.

Well, I was curious about the Venus game, and aside from it not even getting a Western release, the reasoning behind it is what?s perhaps most interesting...

Spoiler

So they are tired of being bitched at to change their game. So they just wont release a game in the west so that they can continue to make a product that they envision, and want to avoid the nonsense in the West.

Makes sense. I kinda figured that in the first place.

I'm surprised you did not know about that one. It's not a fix, but you can buy DOAXBV3 on play asia. From waht I heard, it si not as good as the 2nd game anyway. Plus, that is on Koei-Tecmo anyway, and not the SJW/"feminists" (i.e the ones that only fight for causes when it is convenient or doesn't not believe in the things they say). I find their pathetix excuse funny, because Dragon's Crown Pro just released with little to no controversy after the first time around, and Code of Princess comes out at the end of the month, with no feminists or SJW complaining in site. Critcal, don't let these people get you. If they don't like the game or your favorite characters; fuck'em. You ain't gonna change attitude or dumbass opinions, so don't even waste your breath on the bitches in a box stand. You go and enjoy the games you play/

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I feel the direction with DoA6 seems a bit disingenuous when they have Dead or Alive Xtreme: Venus Vacation going on.

Which is why I believe the main reason they're doing this is for esports, not for inclusivity sakes.

Well, I was curious about the Venus game, and aside from it not even getting a Western release, the reasoning behind it is what?s perhaps most interesting...

Spoiler

So they are tired of being bitched at to change their game. So they just wont release a game in the west so that they can continue to make a product that they envision, and want to avoid the nonsense in the West.

Makes sense. I kinda figured that in the first place.

Nah, they're just cheap cowards. Emphasis on cheap.

Like, Gal Gun 2 is on the Switch eShop for Christ's sake. Senran Kagura's Switch release is a massage game with motion controls. On a Nintendo console.

And you believe KT scrapped localization for DoAX3 because they were tired of being bitched at?