Dead or Alive 6: Shimbori confirms team is deliberately reducing sex appeal of female characters

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

But wasn't the point of this Mortal Kombat knock-off is that it had more knockers?

 

[BrawlMan]

But wasn't the point of this Mortal Kombat knock-off is that it had more knockers?

You mean Tekken/Virtua Fighter knock-off? Other than some minor blood added, it's nothing like MK.

 

[Cicada 5]

It's not about them TAKING my "VIDDYAGEAMEZ", it was never about that. It is about these people demanding shit changes to suit THEM. Nevermind what the developers wanted to create, never mind what the fans have grown used to in the series or even look forward to series content, these people look at something and instead of doing exactly what you just said and not buying it...they instead DEMAND that the game change, that the developers change their vision of the game to suit what these people deam to be okay.

Sadly they don't even want to buy or even play the game in the first place. Like Anita Sark, they just want to label everything sexist and oppressive when they don't actually give a shit about gaming in the first place.

I wouldn't have a problem if this was a movement highlighting a legit problem, like racism or sexist in real world game development. Like when people accused Quantum Dream and David CAge of sexism, I just nodded and said, "Yeah that's fucked up and shouldn't ever happen."

Game characters aren't real people or even real things. They are computer programs, ones and zeros, this isn't sexism this isn't the objectification of women. These women compete on equal footing with their male counterparts, they just happen to be good looking which I don't understand why it's a problem. You can point to their outfits, but I don't understand how a tight form fitting outfit on a woman is sexism and objectification but that same outfit on a rippling strong muscle man is fine.

People can claim it's for equality all they want, but that isn't the truth. The fact is these people wanted the women treated in a very unique and special way, where they somehow have to be strong, smart, brave, attractive, heroic, capable, self-reliant, all while also not being abused, objectified, sexualized, and any other negative buzzwords. And you and I BOTH know that no female character will EVER hit the mark that is acceptable to these people.

And perhaps that is what upsets me the most, the constant shifting of the goalpost. I thought the new Tomb Raider series was great as Lara overcomes a world of shit, but then people say "Lara never takes control, she only ever reacts and never show her power on her own," which baffles me. How else do you expect the story to be interesting, if Lara is just a badass and can single-handedly run around and take down an army without conflict upon herself, then what's the point? Also isn't that exactly what the old school Lara was, confident and capable and never on the receiving end of any adversity, yet because she was attractive...it was bad?

I just don't fucking understand it.

Bouncing breasts and skimpy outfits that serve no purpose in combat are very much objectification, regardless of whether or not the women are real. The guys in these games are designed in such a way that they look like they can kick your ass. Any eye candy for women is more coincidence than anything.




By contrast the designs for the female characters (with the sole exception of Mila from the fifth game) could not be more blatant about them being made to give teenagers erections. I mean, you got Kasumi?s outfit that looks like it was made for giving the audience a flash of her ass, Ayane?s top which looks like it needs spirit gum and a whole lot of prayer to stay on, Christie?s catsuit which also apparently doesn?t have a functioning zipper, Rachel who apparently works as a dominatrix on the side etc. For crying out loud, there?s a code in one of the games that allows Kasumi to be shown in the nude. How is this equal treatment? Let's not forget that some of these characters are teenagers.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

*snip*

Look, you can call it niche all you want, but Senran Kagura: Peach Beach Splash, the wet T-shirt water-gun shooter spin-off had comparable sales in Japan.

Not counting Senran KaguraBS's worldwide release, just Japan. So, I'll agree that KT with worried that it's flagship franchise is losing steam, because it's flagship franchise had turned into horny weeb trash, and sells like horney weeb trash. I mean, I like a lot of weeb trash, but I'm not gonna claim that it isn't weeb trash.

Marvelous will release its weeb trash in the US, and Estival Versus has a bit in the main story where a gal with puppeteer powers holds two other characters in place to sexually assault them and gets a near-literal slap on the wrist as punishment. And they took a rightful drubbing in review scores for it.

Only reason DoA gets talked about more was because, once upon a time, it was better than weeb trash. Like how Nic Cage has an Oscar.

So yeah, KT were cowards to not release DoAX3 outside of Asia. Or, possibly, they knew that DoA6 was on the horizon and wanted to salvage what reputation they had left. Hence the focus on fighting and not making their female characters look like well rendered Illusion models with toddler faces.

(Of course, we're talking about yet another game that "the critics all hate" that's got a metacritic critic score of ~7.5/10 and a metacritic user score of ~7.5/10. Well, DoA5, anyway. DoAX3's reused assets and near total lack of actual game didn't do anything to wow critics)

 

[BrawlMan]

Nah, they're just cheap cowards. Emphasis on cheap.
...
And you believe KT scrapped localization for DoAX3 because they were tired of being bitched at?

In the same time period DOAX3 came out, Koei was localising c-tier Omega Force Warriors games on the Vita, with 100 dollar collectors editions.

'Cheapness' was never a concern with Koei, if a SKU can sell like 10k copies they'll make it. Only reason they stopped localising Vita versions of their games, which they still make btw, is because it's just so dead at this point they can't even scrounge together that many units outside of Japan.

Now look at DOAX, both of the games prior to 3 sold more the 200k outside Japan. 3 would have done atleast a 100k. The 'cheapness' excuse falls apart completely when you realise how low the bar is for Tecmo to localise a game, and how much prior DOAX sold.

So what happened? Well, DOA5 selling like shit happened, combined with the afformentioned climate being intolerant towards a game like this. How do those 2 relate?

DOA used to be Tecmo's flagship series, comfortably selling more than a million copies per game. 3 and 4 each moved 2 million units. Here comes 5 a while later, cost of development increases, but popularity of the series, 3D fighters in general, decreases. The initial goal was to sell 1 mill, reserved compared the prior performances. 5 falls short of that by a few 100k. At this point, Koei desperately tries to scrounge together a monetisation scheme that allows it to reach it's sales target, leading to several updated retail releases of the game, ports all over the place, the free-to-play version, and the mountains of DLC.

Well, Tecmo Koei is shitting it's pants at how their biggest IP is losing popularity. DOAX3 is being made, pretty on the cheap really. Not a huge sales driver, but easily profiatble. But, this type of game would get shit on pretty hard in the current enviroment by western media. Tecmo, fearing the negative publicity will further damage the DOA brand in the west, decides to shitcan releasing DOAX3 here. Furthermore, you see what they did with DOA6 so far, parts of that can be traced back to this aswell. Happily never after, the end.

So, dumbed down to incredible stupidity, yes, the bitching is the reason why Xtreme 3 didn't release here.

As an aside, yes DOA would get far more toxicity thrown at it by media, compared to something like Gal Gun and Senran Kagura. Easy answer too, DOA is a known brand that has a degree of popularity. The other two are niche garbage. Soul Calibur 6, despite being the only game from a long running, moderately popular fighting game series with open bazongas like that at this point, now that DOA6 bailed, got shit for it at E3. And it will get shit on come review time.

No joke, one article complained how it's a relic of past times that shouldn't exist today. Funny, years ago the complaint was that every fighter was homogenous T&A, the wool being the argument "we just want more that's different, we're not taking anything away". That turned into, a couple of new things, but mostly just the old going homogenous in the opposite direction and the holdovers getting battered for not doing the same.

...I find their pathetix excuse funny, because Dragon's Crown Pro just released with little to no controversy after the first time around, and Code of Princess comes out at the end of the month

You bring up 2 games, both ports/rereleases of old games at this point, admit one of them had controversy when it first released. The other one is a game nobody knows even existed before this new version came out.

What, is every port of Dragon's Crown supposed to have an even bigger controversy in your mind? That's nonsensical. You admited you know it had controversy, for the exact reason the people you mock say something like DC would. You do realise you just brought up a game that validates not you, but the people you find pathetix?

And Code of Princess is such a non-entity, most people who follow games don't know it exists. It is horribly niche, compared to Dragons Crown, let alone anything bigger. That's like bringing up Umihara Kawase in a conversation about the popularity of platformers. I don't even know if you know what that is, if you do, congrats you are one of the 3 people in 10.000.000 that know. It's not a benchmark of anything.

1. Just because niche, does not mean it should be undermined. Code of Princess sold well for it was supposed to do. The game didn't garner much controversy other than some embarrassment from IGN.

2, Those people are pathetic, because they overreacted over nothing. If the content makes you uncomfortable that is one thing, but shaming anyone for enjoying a game you dislike is another. Dragon's Crown did get some popularity because of people like Kotaku and Polygon with their constant bitching. The creator of the series and some were butting heads only for them to resolve their difference and have a fucking discussion. If it wasn't for them making all that "drama" Dragon's Crown would gotten nowhere near as popular in th West. Sure, it's not a popular as DOA, but all the shit from gaming press benefited to DC's advantage as people wanted to see what the big deal was, and most people ended up playing a satisfying brawler. So I thank you Kotaku and Polygon for your self-righteous hypocrisy and idiocy. History would repeat itself when Senran Kagura reached Western shores.

3. With all that mention above, I wasn't expecting Dragon's Crown tp cause controverey again. I just found it funny. Anymore "controversy" from the gaming press about the same game, would just make them look like bigger fools.

 

[Paragon Fury]

*snip*

Look, you can call it niche all you want, but Senran Kagura: Peach Beach Splash, the wet T-shirt water-gun shooter spin-off had comparable sales in Japan.

Not counting Senran KaguraBS's worldwide release, just Japan. So, I'll agree that KT with worried that it's flagship franchise is losing steam, because it's flagship franchise had turned into horny weeb trash, and sells like horney weeb trash. I mean, I like a lot of weeb trash, but I'm not gonna claim that it isn't weeb trash.

Marvelous will release its weeb trash in the US, and Estival Versus has a bit in the main story where a gal with puppeteer powers holds two other characters in place to sexually assault them and gets a near-literal slap on the wrist as punishment. And they took a rightful drubbing in review scores for it.

Only reason DoA gets talked about more was because, once upon a time, it was better than weeb trash. Like how Nic Cage has an Oscar.

So yeah, KT were cowards to not release DoAX3 outside of Asia. Or, possibly, they knew that DoA6 was on the horizon and wanted to salvage what reputation they had left. Hence the focus on fighting and not making their female characters look like well rendered Illusion models with toddler faces.

(Of course, we're talking about yet another game that "the critics all hate" that's got a metacritic critic score of ~7.5/10 and a metacritic user score of ~7.5/10. Well, DoA5, anyway. DoAX3's reused assets and near total lack of actual game didn't do anything to wow critics)

It?s ?weeb trash? though, so why would they? The ?new direction? isn?t going to rescue the company, either. Most people who played DoA before were doing so at least partially to be titilated, so what will be the excuse to now once that?s gone? Is the fighting really going to be significantly better than whatever else is out there? I suppose we shall soon find out.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Ok, I just read IGN?s preview [http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/06/25/e3-2018-dead-or-alive-6-first-hands-on-can-team-ninja-balance-familiar-and-fresh], and it actually doesn?t sound too bad. More like a reasonable compromise of old and new. From the hysteria I would?ve assumed they were changing characters? measurements and completely white washing everything, but it looks even less drastic than what NR did with MKX.

Most of the changes sound like they?re actually for the better, like all characters showing damage and injuries as well as more interactive and gameplay-augmenting stage interactions. Realistic characters can be a plus even though the series is known for over the top action. Helena and Kasumi still look the same dimensionally for what it?s worth, and I?m pretty sure there will still be hidden unlockable costumes as well.

 

[BrawlMan]

Ok, I just read IGN?s preview [http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/06/25/e3-2018-dead-or-alive-6-first-hands-on-can-team-ninja-balance-familiar-and-fresh], and it actually doesn?t sound too bad. More like a reasonable compromise of old and new. From the hysteria I would?ve assumed they were changing characters? measurements and completely white washing everything, but it looks even less drastic than what NR did with MKX.

Most of the changes sound like they?re actually for the better, like all characters showing damage and injuries as well as more interactive and gameplay-augmenting stage interactions. Realistic characters can be a plus even though the series is known for over the top action. Helena and Kasumi still look the same dimensionally for what it?s worth, and I?m pretty sure there will still be hidden unlockable costumes as well.

See, like I said earlier. Some people on this thread were having a heart attack over nothing.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

I have noticed while games in the west have been less sexualized, and this was correlated with the number of female players increasing.

https://www.newsweek.com/video-games-getting-less-sexist-485497

I don't care as long as violence in games doesn't decrease. I like the Bulletstorm(s), and Fallouts too much.

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/8547/20140617/as-games-become-more-realistic-their-depiction-of-violence-gets-more-extreme.htm

 

[Paragon Fury]

I have noticed while games in the west have been less sexualized, and this was correlated with the number of female players increasing.

https://www.newsweek.com/video-games-getting-less-sexist-485497

I don't care as long as violence in games doesn't decrease. I like the Bulletstorm(s), and Fallouts too much.

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/8547/20140617/as-games-become-more-realistic-their-depiction-of-violence-gets-more-extreme.htm

What?s sad is these developers don?t realize that unless they?re hardcore feminists, most normal chicks actually don?t mind T&A displays. Hell, look at how most gamer-age girls dress for Halloween. Also, there?s all those cosplay fans. [https://www.pinterest.com/misstechbunny/female-cosplay-costume/]

 

[Cicada 5]

How is this equal treatment? Let's not forget that some of these characters are teenagers.

THEY ARENT REAL PEOPLE!!!!!! Fictional characters! FICCCCCCCTIOOONNNNAALLLL CHARACTERS!!!!

Are you so dense that you buy into the bullshit that people are corrupted by the things they see in media? Do you seriously buy into the plot that seeing pretty girls will somehow make you a sexist pig?

If so, you gotta wonder why people don't boycott Victoria's Secret for all the pretty ladies in underwear. And if you dare use the argument that they use the underwear clad women to sell their product and don't see the equal counterpart to video game characters, then....i just...i can't even.

FACT: People, both men and women alike, like to see pretty women period. It does not make it a problem. It's a false narrative that this new wave of feminism likes to portray.

It's bullshit, stop it.

If you don't like what the game is doing, don't buy it. Simple. If enough people stopped buying the game because the sexualization was a problem for them, the developers would organically make the change.

First of all, the all caps are really not necessary.

Secondly, please explain to me why a fighting game series is taking marketing tips from a line of sexy women's underwear? Yeah people like to look at pretty men and women but it's not like a video game is the only place to get this. The Internet, strip clubs and porno shops exist after all.

And I guess it's all just a coincidence that fandoms have started getting a reputation for toxicity and that stuff like DOA exists.

And I'm sure you'll follow your own advice and not buy this game since the lack of fanservice offends you?

But hey, I'm talking to a guy who doesn't see how sexualised teenagers is kind of an issue, so maybe this conversation is just a lost cause.

 

[BrawlMan]

How is this equal treatment? Let's not forget that some of these characters are teenagers.

THEY ARENT REAL PEOPLE!!!!!! Fictional characters! FICCCCCCCTIOOONNNNAALLLL CHARACTERS!!!!

Are you so dense that you buy into the bullshit that people are corrupted by the things they see in media? Do you seriously buy into the plot that seeing pretty girls will somehow make you a sexist pig?

If so, you gotta wonder why people don't boycott Victoria's Secret for all the pretty ladies in underwear. And if you dare use the argument that they use the underwear clad women to sell their product and don't see the equal counterpart to video game characters, then....i just...i can't even.

FACT: People, both men and women alike, like to see pretty women period. It does not make it a problem. It's a false narrative that this new wave of feminism likes to portray.

It's bullshit, stop it.

If you don't like what the game is doing, don't buy it. Simple. If enough people stopped buying the game because the sexualization was a problem for them, the developers would organically make the change.

First of all, the all caps are really not necessary.

Secondly, please explain to me why a fighting game series is taking marketing tips from a line of sexy women's underwear? Yeah people like to look at pretty men and women but it's not like a video game is the only place to get this. The Internet, strip clubs and porno shops exist after all.

And I guess it's all just a coincidence that fandoms have started getting a reputation for toxicity and that stuff like DOA exists.

And I'm sure you'll follow your own advice and not buy this game since the lack of fanservice offends you?

But hey, I'm talking to a guy who doesn't see how sexualised teenagers is kind of an issue, so maybe this conversation is just a lost cause.

Yeah, there's no getting through to him. I tried. Even with the news that is not a big of a deal as he and others are making it out to be, he's still complaining.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

*snip*

Look, you can call it niche all you want, but Senran Kagura: Peach Beach Splash, the wet T-shirt water-gun shooter spin-off had comparable sales in Japan.

Not counting Senran KaguraBS's worldwide release, just Japan. So, I'll agree that KT with worried that it's flagship franchise is losing steam, because it's flagship franchise had turned into horny weeb trash, and sells like horney weeb trash. I mean, I like a lot of weeb trash, but I'm not gonna claim that it isn't weeb trash.

Marvelous will release its weeb trash in the US, and Estival Versus has a bit in the main story where a gal with puppeteer powers holds two other characters in place to sexually assault them and gets a near-literal slap on the wrist as punishment. And they took a rightful drubbing in review scores for it.

Only reason DoA gets talked about more was because, once upon a time, it was better than weeb trash. Like how Nic Cage has an Oscar.

So yeah, KT were cowards to not release DoAX3 outside of Asia. Or, possibly, they knew that DoA6 was on the horizon and wanted to salvage what reputation they had left. Hence the focus on fighting and not making their female characters look like well rendered Illusion models with toddler faces.

(Of course, we're talking about yet another game that "the critics all hate" that's got a metacritic critic score of ~7.5/10 and a metacritic user score of ~7.5/10. Well, DoA5, anyway. DoAX3's reused assets and near total lack of actual game didn't do anything to wow critics)

It?s ?weeb trash? though, so why would they? The ?new direction? isn?t going to rescue the company, either. Most people who played DoA before were doing so at least partially to be titilated, so what will be the excuse to now once that?s gone? Is the fighting really going to be significantly better than whatever else is out there? I suppose we shall soon find out.

I suppose we'll see.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I appreciate you not attempting to argue what I said, I'll take it as a sign that I done did wrote a gud'n. We were however talking about western performance of games, so the Japanese performance of Senran Kagura and how it relates to DOAX3 is completely irrelevant.

DOA3/4 were also not any less of a weeb trashpit than 5, especially initially. Those were the games where characters looked like CGI anime dolls, made to Itagaki's specifications. And they did a lot better, not because of that obviously. 5 was actually supposed to be respectable when it came out, but it failed, so DLC turned towards milking the naughty bits dry.

As an aside, the reputation of DOA has absolutely little to do with how it sells.
...

User score arguments are a silly tangent. It's partially my fault though. I do apologise for writing "come review time". In my mind, I was more thinking the release window of the game and the type of coverage it would get.

Okay, so if reputation has very little to do with how it sells, why do they care about think pieces talking about their weird doll proportions?

Trends, as the aformentioned decreased popularity of 3D fighters, plus the fact that most fighters are visually unimpressive these days compared to open-world games of all things. Note, this is about fidelity, not artstyle. When Tekken, DOA and whatever else were in their prime, they were the visual tour de force. The top of what then would be AAA visuals, and content. Other games couldn't compete.

DOA used to be like that. Now? Like most Japanese fighters, it can no longer do any of that, so sales reflect their inability to grow. Netherrealm made the blueprint for a hugely successful fighter today, AAA visuals and high quality, marketable SP content. Both expensive. DOA5, for example, had neither. Sales reflect that. Tits and Ass? Not really a factor why DOA5 sold less. In DOA's heyday, a lot of its popularity rode on that, made it distinct, funnily enough. Again, DOA didn't outperform Virtua Fighter because it was the better game. Doesn't stop Tecmo from shitting their pants and reacting the way they did though.

So, they're trying to pull a netherrealms and make their fighters look more like people. Which is their stated goal in this interview. And some people are going mental because, somehow, these aren't "pretty girls":

Truly, niqabs are the next step on this slippery slope.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

FACT: People, both men and women alike, like to see pretty women period. It does not make it a problem. It's a false narrative that this new wave of feminism likes to portray.

It's bullshit, stop it.

If you don't like what the game is doing, don't buy it. Simple. If enough people stopped buying the game because the sexualization was a problem for them, the developers would organically make the change.

...is this somehow not what KT's doing?

 

[CritialGaming]

First of all, the all caps are really not necessary.

Secondly, please explain to me why a fighting game series is taking marketing tips from a line of sexy women's underwear? Yeah people like to look at pretty men and women but it's not like a video game is the only place to get this. The Internet, strip clubs and porno shops exist after all.

You assume that people have access to these things. Some places have shitty internet, some people don't go to strip clubs or porno shops. Also how is porn and strip clubs not objectifying but fake bouncy tits in a video game is? Explain your reasoning on that.

Sometimes people just want to play a game with sexy women in it, why is that a problem?

And I guess it's all just a coincidence that fandoms have started getting a reputation for toxicity and that stuff like DOA exists.

The toxicity from these fandoms isn't because they are toxic by default. It's coming from suddenly people are calling them sexist pigs for liking a thing they've liked for over a decade. It's defense of a hobby that this recent wave of SJW's has suddenly decided is a problem. People will defend things they love, sometimes not very nicely which is not exactly helpful.

If it really was disgusting people wouldn't buy it.

Like when they decided to change Coke, and people flipped their shit because new Coke was crap, so they stopped buying it and Coke panicked. Thus now they call it Coca-Cola CLASSSIC.

And I'm sure you'll follow your own advice and not buy this game since the lack of fanservice offends you?

This just shows me that you are simply looking to argue with me, without really reading what I'm saying. But since I said it in a post before the random forum rollback, I'll say it again.

I'm not interested in DoA or any other fighting games. I don't like fighters, I've never liked fighters.

However I will absolutely defend any developers RIGHT to make their fighting game and their characters however they wish. Because there is one thing I can't stand more than anything is other people TELLING me what I or anyone else should find offensive as if you all stand on some absolute moral authority.

But hey, I'm talking to a guy who doesn't see how sexualised teenagers is kind of an issue, so maybe this conversation is just a lost cause.

It's an issue to you because you clearly have no concept of other cultures. Japan's age of consent is 13 years old, however the government has mandated that no adult activities in any form of media may involve anyone under the age of 18. And even in normal society it is frowned on under 18. However that doesn't disregard the fact that Japan has a kind of fetishistic thing about underage looking women. Loli for example, the drawing of young girls that engage in sexual behavior but end up being 1000 year old demons to get around the law. Since this is a Japanese developer you kinda get where these characters come from.

And before you say I'm justifying underage anything, I'm not. I'm just trying to provide perspective of the culture in which the game originates since you insist on pointing out that one character is a teenager. (POST EDIT: Turns out after a bit of digging I cannot find any character listed under the age of 18 in the series anyway so I am not sure who you even are talking about)

This isn't porn. This isn't any more subjectifying than these high school teenagers posting bikini pictures and duckfaces all over their instagrams. This is a fighting game, and there is no harm in having attractive characters beat the shit out of each other, or wear skimpy outfits while doing it.

The game has a niche audience and that's fine. Let them have it, who does it hurt?

I will also say this again. I don't care if a developer makes a game less sexy by choice, like if during the development they decide to tone things down because they felt it was better off.

I DO mind, when the game is fucking done and people give them shit about what they made. You have every right to not like a game, movie, or TV show. You don't have to consume it. But if the creator wanted it this way, and the audience is buying it. Then you have NO RIGHT to tell them it's wrong.

End of story.

And not one person has made a single valid counter point to anything I've said. You all have only called me a complainer, and that's because you have no ground to stand on because you know what you are saying is objectification is bullshit. You're like FOX news complaining about the sex in Mass Effect, or the violence in GTA, you make claims for the sake of riling people up in faux outrage.

And if you have real points, real counters to anything I've said, the bring it on.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I will absolutely defend any developers RIGHT to make their fighting game and their characters however they wish. Because there is one thing I can't stand more than anything is other people TELLING me what I or anyone else should find offensive as if you all stand on some absolute moral authority.

Devs have forever not had the right to make what they want unless they're self-publishing as well. Publishers want devs to make games that pander to the demographic that they think will sell the most. Why do you think EA has Bioware making a Destiny/Division clone? You think Bioware independently decided to make Anthem? When Heavenly Sword was shown at E3, that was the only game out of 3,000 shown games that was a new IP with a female protagonist. It's not like that happened way back in the 50s or something, that was this century and last-gen. I'm not some EssJayDubya but I personally want more diversity for sheer variety purposes alone. Obviously someone was telling devs to make games with male protagonists. The gaming demographic is ever shifting and it isn't the same as it once was so the pandering will also shift over time as well. Sure, it may be a fetish in Japan with teenage girls but that demographic now seems to be too niche to pander to and Koei Tecmo wants more sales than that will yield. Also, Japan is the least important market in terms of sales out of the big 3 that also include North America and Europe. There isn't some EssJayDubya conspiracy group pushing some agenda on everyone, it's merely a shift in the demographics and the pandering adjusting to said new demographics. Do you actually think some group is pushing an agenda that is influencing CEOs and shareholders of gaming companies to make less money? If pushing diversity is bad for the bottom line, it ain't going to be pushed.

 

[CritialGaming]

Devs have forever not had the right to make what they want unless they're self-publishing as well. Publishers want devs to make games that pander to the demographic that they think will sell the most. Why do you think EA has Bioware making a Destiny/Division clone? You think Bioware independently decided to make Anthem? When Heavenly Sword was shown at E3, that was the only game out of 3,000 shown games that was a new IP with a female protagonist. It's not like that happened way back in the 50s or something, that was this century and last-gen. I'm not some EssJayDubya but I personally want more diversity for sheer variety purposes alone. Obviously someone was telling devs to make games with male protagonists. The gaming demographic is ever shifting and it isn't the same as it once was so the pandering will also shift over time as well. Sure, it may be a fetish in Japan with teenage girls but that demographic now seems to be too niche to pander to and Koei Tecmo wants more sales than that will yield. Also, Japan is the least important market in terms of sales out of the big 3 that also include North America and Europe. There isn't some EssJayDubya conspiracy group pushing some agenda on everyone, it's merely a shift in the demographics and the pandering adjusting to said new demographics. Do you actually think some group is pushing an agenda that is influencing CEOs and shareholders of gaming companies to make less money? If pushing diversity is bad for the bottom line, it ain't going to be pushed.

Wait if Japan is the least important market, then how come so many japanese developed games never come out of Japan? Clearly it matters enough to only make games for them.

I don't know why you are twisting this into a "more woman in video games" thing, because that isn't the point of this thread at all.

This is literally a game filled with women, which is something that people should be happy about right? More women in games and here is a fighting game filled with them. But oops, these girls look to good, let's go ahead and rework the character to design to make them slightly uglier. So it's okay to look good, but not too good. It's okay to jiggle, but not too much. It's okay to show skin, but not too much. Where these imaginary bars lie, depend on the person or radical group making the decision at the moment though.

And making the point that it isn't about developers only, there are publishers involved and you are correct, but both the developer and the publish has already signed off on this game and it's characters. So what does it have to do with anything in this conversation. The subject matter of the game and the art had been approved already, it's basically a finished project at this stage in development, so clearly neither companies had problems with it until someone in the journalism space said something about it. Frankly we've already seen these gaming publications fall into this very agenda based rabbit hole. Polygon, Kotaku, Ign, they've all hired these "journalists" that now seem to have more of an axe to grind with the industry than they care about actually just reporting about the industry.

Let me say this, we hear these statistics all the time about how more and more women are playing video games which I'm sure is true when compared to the 1980's, but I don't know about you but I don't see women in gamestop buying games, pre-ordering games, and I don't think I've ever seen a girl waiting in line for a midnight launch for anything, not a new game, new console, nothing. So I have to be a little skeptical about this sudden rise in the need for female characters. I'm sure it happens somewhere, but it is not a common thing it. If gaming was so diverse, if the audience was so evenly split between the sexes, then how come it doesn't look like women ever care, and certainly not in the same rates that men care. If women were so into gaming as a hobby then you'd think a midnight launch line would be a bit more mixed don't you think? Sure you can find lines and you might see 1 or 2 girls for every 30-40 dudes, but a 10% rate hardly seems worth creating hit-piece campaigns to me.

You can surely say that gaming is just now starting to get more female characters in games, but there have been female characters in gaming for as long as I can remember. Maybe it seems more prevalent now because there is such a critical eye on gaming featuring woman. Ms. Pacman was in every bar right next to the regular Pacman machine in the 80's. Princess Peach was a playable character in Mario 2 (regardless of any excuse that it wasn't originally a Mario game, the fact is they could have made it Bowser if they had wanted but Peach being playable was a dev choice). Samus Aran, Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Chun Li, Cammy, Nina Williams, all the various female Final Fantasy characters, and on and on and on. So excuse me when I don't really buy the bullshit of "Women haven't been in video games for very long," or "woman haven't been the main character for very long" because it's NOT TRUE. I've been a female Elf in World of Warcraft for 14 years now.

There have been man and women in games as lead characters since basically forever.

This is all about a group with an agenda against a medium that nobody with any power will defend. It's up to the gamers to defend it and when we speak out against all the false bullshit that Anita Sarkeesian blabs about in her speeches and videos, these people twist it into harassment. They use us correcting the bogus facts and twist them into calling abuse against them. You point out incorrect statements and suddenly you are a sexist, or racist, or homophobic. It's maddening.

And yes these CEO's and shit will come out to promote these games with female characters because they want to show how much they listen to the people, how much their company wants to be diverse and inclusive and how they want their titles to be for everyone to play......so long as you have a credit card to feed into their lootboxes or whatever.