Death to the Mana Bar!

[BFEL]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

EDIT: Ok, to clarify I do NOT believe a game should just plonk you down with limitless power. What Im trying to get at is that theres better ways to do it then "you ran out of spells? haha take my sword in your gut!" For one thing I believe that even an apprentice mage shouldnt have to deal with running out of spells but should obviously be limited by something more sensible, like say all your apprentice spells are mostly crap. Also on the name of the thread...I didnt even know yahtzee hung out at a place called the mana bar...and I find it absolutely hilarious that this fact got me 1000 views in one day.

EDIT#2: *sighs* Ok time for more clarification! 1. I am not an MMO player thus my oppinions on this apply only to single player. 2. There should be SOME way to limit you but I just feel the mana bar is not the best way to do so, it breaks immersion for me because its intended to represent mental capacity which in my experience isnt like a gas tank. Its not so much the gameplay limitations(though I do have some issues with those) its more about taking abstract concepts like concentration, focus and mental ability and reducing them to numbers. THAT is what really frustrates me.

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

Balance is king. Without balance the game world would be...well, unbalanced. You can't have unlimited magic, because it would be unbalanced.

BALANCE!

Plus, it's good enough just to have it recharge, like in Oblivion, or just have the abilities themselves recharge, like in Mass Effect.

 

[manythings]

Gandalf cast like three spells and Harry potter rules are fucking retarded.

OT: You want to just buy a game and play as a wizard who can cast so much magic that is so powerful that it ends the game? Don't play then, you'll get about as much enjoyment.

 

[Legion]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I was kind of hoping for that, too. I'd kill to have one of those here in the States.

 

[trooper6]

As a dedicated RPG fan, you should know that the limitations on spellcasting goes back to the RPG source: Dungeons and Dragons. And second, Tolkien's universe what exceptionally high-magic. Gandalf does not bust out massive spells. Here's an article noting that he's probably only 5th level:

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=7338

If you want a game where you can destroy everything and have no limits (and therefore no challenges), you'll probably have to make it yourself.

 

[3rd rung]

well, I have to say games would be rather boring if you could do all that off the bat. I mean what challenge would there be. I have to save my kingdom o skeleton army summoned worldd saved games over. Having to use things strategically makes for more challenge and a better game play.

I don't think mana bars are the best way to do that, so I agree with you on that, but unrestricted use is not the answer hear.

 

[Not-here-anymore]

I can imagine that wielding the fundamental forces of the universe is kind of tiring. Also, all mage classes everywhere would be woefully overpowered without some kind of check on how much power they can whip around.
Though personally I feel stamina would make more sense than mana - exhaustion on the mage's part rather than simply running out of magic just seems more sensible. I'd say realistic, but we are talking about magic here...

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I, too, pictured a viking-esque raid on Yahtzee's humble establishment, where much pillaging and...such would take place.

Umm...anyway, yeah OT without the balance the game would be fairly unplayable. Perhaps what you suggest could be an extra that you can select after you've finished the game. You know, play through again with unlimited mana bar and the best spells and shit.

 

[Thespian]

But Yahtzee needs it for an income D:

 

[Jonluw]

I, too, thought this was going to be about the bar down under.

In any case: Sure, you might see the point of magic as being unbalanced, but in a game that implements both magic and melee combat, it can't be.
The mana bar is there to provide balance between the mage and the other classes a player may choose.

What you want, I suppose, is a game where magic is the central element; in which case there wouldn't necessarily be a need for a mana bar. However, in the fantasy rpg genre as it is today, we need the mana bar (or a similar solution limiting the capabilities of the wizard) to keep everyone from rolling mages.

 

[Corpse XxX]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I see im not the only one fooled by this..

 

[Kecunk]

Its because all wizards are cowards.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Because if they didn't put some sort of limitation on your magic it'd break the game and no body wants to play a broken game.

 

[Orange Monkey]

Play Magicka, have fun with unlimited arcane power.

Otherwise Magic somewhat unbalances a game where not everyone can perform it. Plus if you go into roleplaying means, I'm guessing having the raw energy of the universe constantly coursing through your body might take a bit of a toll, hence the cool downs, or else you might disintegrate. And if you could just level a city with a thought, chances are there are many OTHER people in the world who can as well, so they keep things dialled down so things don't get too ridiculous.

 

[lacktheknack]

Oh, I thought you wanted to burn down Yahtzee's gaming bar. Whew.

 

[Voodoomancer]

This is easy to fix: No mana bar, hence unlimited spells, and to counter all you fight are dragons and pitfiends.

 

[kayisking]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

You too?
OT: I don't see the mana bar as a problem because as you have said in the first post, magic is unbalanced and if you want the whole game to be a cakewalk just use cheats.

 

[dfcrackhead]

I prefer the mana bar to the D&D system of "You can use X number of spells per day, you run out, oh well, good thing wizards have such high STR and CON right? Oh... you don't? Sorry"

 

[Cheesepower5]

You'll LOVE Ultima III through VII. Sure, there's a MP limit. But there's also a spell that literally kills everyone but you, the final boss and Lord British.