Death to the Mana Bar!
- Thread starter BFEL
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It is awesome to just whip out spells like it was no small thing. But, stamina should play in, everyone has limits to how far and long they can push themselves and I don't see channeling the arcane arts being any different from that. I've always seen the mana bar more like a stamina bar, but the mage edition. It's the limit to how much energy they can pull in, shape to their liking, and then channel outwards from themselves before hitting an exhaustion point. CD's are along the same line in my mind, a brief period of time to catch ones breath before popping off another blast of energy from oneself. Remember even if the mage pulls the energy from the world around them they still have to shape it and channel it in a particular direction.
If there wasn't a limit on use of magic then a game would be incredibly unbalanced and would offer very little challenge.
For example let's say in Final Fantasy if there was no limits then a Black Mage could cast Ultima no problem. The fights would get extremely boring.
For example let's say in Final Fantasy if there was no limits then a Black Mage could cast Ultima no problem. The fights would get extremely boring.
Well look at Fable 2 and 3. They did away with the mana bar, and you can spam spells as much as you want. End results? Magic is absolutely broken and nothing poses a threat. Well done, you've just completely destroyed any kind of difficulty in the game.
Same here, I opened up the thread and was like "What the fuck is he on about? Oh... Move along".Legion said:
Basically to balance the game. Mages are usually overpowered anyway but if you gave them unlimited spells as well they would basically be god.
Personally I feel that having the ability to conjure an unlimited number of spells can be balanced by making you slower or more vulnerable thus becoming a weak wobbling glass cannon at the expense of sheer power.
CAPTCHA: GNovXV Science. It is the magic of the future!
CAPTCHA: GNovXV Science. It is the magic of the future!
My first thought was that what BFEL is asking for would be unbalanced and uninteresting but it turns out I was approaching it wrong.
A character with unlimited magic is only unbalanced if he's the only one. If the adversaries were similarly supercharged this could set the ground work for some truly cataclysmic battles. Shadow of the Colossus has already proven that a game consisting of only boss battles can be done well. What about a game where the main character starts out with ridiculous powers and has to fight several equally powered adversaries who use their powers more adeptly as the 'story' progresses. The challenge then would be to learn how to best use your powers. Going along with the Shadow of the Colossus thing, set the game in a giant world where your character can wreak havoc with the landscape as he explores.
Does this game exist? I want to play it!
A character with unlimited magic is only unbalanced if he's the only one. If the adversaries were similarly supercharged this could set the ground work for some truly cataclysmic battles. Shadow of the Colossus has already proven that a game consisting of only boss battles can be done well. What about a game where the main character starts out with ridiculous powers and has to fight several equally powered adversaries who use their powers more adeptly as the 'story' progresses. The challenge then would be to learn how to best use your powers. Going along with the Shadow of the Colossus thing, set the game in a giant world where your character can wreak havoc with the landscape as he explores.
Does this game exist? I want to play it!
It's more or less a fixture...perhaps some variation? Instead of a single mana source, you have a bunch of different ones, and different spells take different amounts of each, or you could assign different amounts from different mana sources yourself to vary teh effect?BFEL said:
Otherwise, the boring "magic gun" thing, basic FPS with "fireballs" instead of grenades, primary and seconday attack spells with different amounts of power for each. Pretty lame, really, but something similar worked in Giants: Citizens Kabuto, as the magic element, even for Delphi, wasn't that big.
Also, yeah, thought this was about Yahtzee.
There has to be limitations to magic in games but I agree that it doesn't have to be as arbitrary as a simple power bar. Perhaps making the casting of spells itself more complicated or double-edged sword thing where the more powerful magics you cast the higher the risk of personal injury/corruption is.
I've always thought the mana bar should be replaced by a fatigue system. Like, the more spells you cast in a row, the tireder you'll get, and the weaker you'll spells will be. That would make more sense to me.
And yeah, I clicked here cause I thought you were talking about Yahtzee's bar. Good to see I wasn't the only one!
And yeah, I clicked here cause I thought you were talking about Yahtzee's bar. Good to see I wasn't the only one!
Your point can be rendered completely moot by asking one simple question, OP:
Would you play a game with but, a click of the mouse, you could one shot all the game's enemies with no need to recharge? I thought not, where's the fun in that?
Mana is a means to keep caster classes in check. Granted, there's probably better ways to provide this check, but this check must still exist, otherwise it would be completely broken and unplayable.
I've seen some stories replace it with stamina, wherein using magic is quite strenuous, and doing to much is hazardous to one's health (yes, I am referring to the Eragon Universe). I think this is a better check.
Would you play a game with but, a click of the mouse, you could one shot all the game's enemies with no need to recharge? I thought not, where's the fun in that?
Mana is a means to keep caster classes in check. Granted, there's probably better ways to provide this check, but this check must still exist, otherwise it would be completely broken and unplayable.
I've seen some stories replace it with stamina, wherein using magic is quite strenuous, and doing to much is hazardous to one's health (yes, I am referring to the Eragon Universe). I think this is a better check.
besides making spells so weak that you have to spam them constantly, there's no way to remove restrictions on magic without making the game either only have mages as playable characters, or super duper boring. Ever played a game on god-mode? sure it's fun for a couple minutes, but the whole point of a game is challenge.
The indie game Magicka had a great way of limiting magic. Instead of a mana bar limiting your spells, it was the speed at which you could combine the neccesary elements that was the limiting factor. Meaning that as you (the player) got better at typing on your keyboard, the mage could cast more spells in the same amount of time.
