Death to the Mana Bar!

[Ghaleon640]

TIE THE MAGIC TO THE HEALTH BAR!!!! (lose life when you use spells.)
You had better be in good condition if you think that you can summon that god-dragon-demon omega 14th edition!When you're weak, use a smoke spell to escape so you can restore your life using magic that doesn't tie to the health bar. (Or maybe it would hurt you before it heals you just to make death even more dangerous.)

No reason that I should be completely crippled, can't walk or talk with my mighty 1 HP and still let loose a small sun to engulf half the world.

 

[Rofl-Mayo]

I thought you were talking about Yahtzee's bar. My bad, I thought you were saying something that could hold my attention.

And as for the manabar in games, are you fucking kidding? Of course you need a manabar, how fun would it be for everybody who doesn't use a magic class if your skills were unlimited?

 

[MetalGenocide]

Mana can be completely unnecessary. It is just an artificial limitation. There a million other ways to balance spells.
Adjusting: Damage, missile speed, cast delays, range, AoE, negative debuffs to self upon cast, etc.
The list goes on and on. Try Magicka.

 

[KeyMaster45]

The idea behind the mana bar that I always understood is it's not that your character "runs out of magic" it's that it's a separate endurance bar based on their mental capacity. (hence why intellect is usually the stat that raises the max mana you have) The bigger the spell the more energy and concentration it requires to cast it. As you can imagine this would eventually tire out the mage to the point of simply not being able to muster the strength to cast more spells. Of course the stronger the mage the less taxing it is for them to cast your giant spells hence why typically in a game your mana bar is meant to increase to reflect the growth in magical fortitude that allows them to cast more taxing spells without encountering mental exhaustion.

To me it makes more sense than an arbitrary time after casting that you can't cast the same spell or another spell.

 

[Richard Hannay]

The OP is unbalanced and will be edited out in a future patch.

 

[BeerTent]

First of all, the last thing we need is less resources to manage in already simple games. I'm looking at you Regenerative Health.

Second, as it's already been stated. We need this for balance. There is no way we can do this without it and keep the game fun. I also like and agree with Keymaster's thoughts.

Though, I've been thinking of a way to balance unlimited magic in a little something I'm working on. We've got our mana bar, and our unlimited magic, but perhaps penalties for overcasting magic as well as a physical drain once you've depleted your mana bar in the form of poison? It's something I'm working on... But my player has decided to go the "No magic" route.

 

[xXGeckoXx]

Magicka anyone. Damn fu diversion but one needs to have a special machanic to remove all limitations.

I liked Mass Effect's biotics which made it so each skill cooled down independently.

 

[mjc0961]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

Yeah that's what I thought too. "What does this guy have against Yahtzee's bar? Did they not get his drink right or something?"

But we're talking about game balance. Okay... Well, think about it. It might be fun for a while to have unlimited magic with no cooldown, but don't you think you'd get bored blasting through the entire game on what is basically easy mode? I mean sure, I don't see why they couldn't have an unlimited magic mode or cheat code for people to have fun in, but they should have the limitations as well for when people want to play more strategically. I guess.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

Well, most of the time you're a beginner at this whole magic thing, so unlike some old wizard who's been doing this for thousands of years you won't be able to do a lot of damage like making fireballs the size of the sun.

Also, if you just want to summon huge hordes of undead minions to fight your battles for you (this doesn't work with actual boss fights), play Magicka.
About halfway through the game you get a spell which allows it.
Also, there's no mana bar and old zombies stay when you recast the spell. (about 5 zombies per casting)

P.S. I thought this thread would be about Yahtzee's Mana Bar...

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

double-edged sword thing where the more powerful magics you cast the higher the risk of personal injury/corruption is.

No one like to be punished by the RNG even more than they already are. Yet alone back-firing spells.

 

[CommanderKirov]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician?

Wait wait waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait.

Real life magicians have mana? Boy, Copperfield had to have some killer Intellect stat than.

 

[GeorgW]

Man, I thought this was about Yahtzee's bar.
You need it so spells don't become OP, but it kind of depends on the type of game. In most games, I rarely use spells cuz I don't want to waste potions or tread back to town, which is kind of boring. Although, I am really cheap. I really like though to customize my char to try to balance mana gain and such, so even though it would be nice with some sort of infinite bar or quick repletion, it wouldn't be as fun.

 

[Tallim]

Your point can be rendered completely moot by asking one simple question, OP:
Would you play a game with but, a click of the mouse, you could one shot all the game's enemies with no need to recharge? I thought not, where's the fun in that?

Mana is a means to keep caster classes in check. Granted, there's probably better ways to provide this check, but this check must still exist, otherwise it would be completely broken and unplayable.

I've seen some stories replace it with stamina, wherein using magic is quite strenuous, and doing to much is hazardous to one's health (yes, I am referring to the Eragon Universe). I think this is a better check.

That's essentially what they did in Arcanum. Stamina is used for more than magic as well and if it falls to 0 you fall unconcious which , to say the least, is pretty fatal in combat.

 

[Qitz]

If you want to see what its like the hurl spells without any qualm about Mana in any way, shape or form, I'd direct you to Magicka.

I do agree that Mana Bars are rather dumb though. When you first start out you eat mana like cakes and burn yourself out in a manner of seconds. At higher levels mana becomes "that blue thing that never goes down."

Though if you had no use for mana all those price gouging mana pot vendors would go out of business, and we wouldn't want that now would we?

 

[binvjoh]

double-edged sword thing where the more powerful magics you cast the higher the risk of personal injury/corruption is.

No one like to be punished by the RNG even more than they already are. Yet alone back-firing spells.

It was only a suggestion. Also, I'm not saying a system like that would be completely random nor that there wouldn't any indication when things are starting to go "wrong" but all in all I certainly would find it more thrilling rather than frustrating to get the sense that I'm "playing with fire" using my more powerfull spells.

Edit: It doesn't have to be like that at all actually it could just as well be about the effective area and/or effects it'd have on the environment. Or maybe a concept of something like blood magic where I'm forced to sacrifice my own health to cast devestatings magics. Of course I don't want every single game to incorporate this sort of system but some varation would certainly be appreciated.

 

[trooper6]

As a dedicated RPG fan, you should know that the limitations on spellcasting goes back to the RPG source: Dungeons and Dragons. And second, Tolkien's universe what exceptionally high-magic. Gandalf does not bust out massive spells. Here's an article noting that he's probably only 5th level:

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=7338

If you want a game where you can destroy everything and have no limits (and therefore no challenges), you'll probably have to make it yourself.

Or his a Multiclass. . I mean its not like a 5th level wizard is gonna beat a boss. Solo. Maybe his like, a Multiclass Wizard/Duelist/Fighter/rogue/druid/diplomat/scholar. . . yea, nvm.

Yeah, very true. Considering Wizards can't use swords in trad D&D, and Gandalf is depicted as using a sword, he is at the very least Wizard/Fighter....though I could totally see him having a gazillion multiclass levels.

 

[8bitlove2a03]

The fun of games is in playing them, not winning them. If I just walked through Oblivion casting some hacked-in 10 km AoE lighting spell with no limitations, it'd be awfully boring.

 

[Ralen-Sharr]

what about a different way to balance spellcasting? let them fling spells all they want, but spell spamming reduces the effectiveness as you keep casting

that might help with pacing and keep some semblance of balance while allowing casters to keep going if they want to, or pace themselves a bit and use fewer, more powerful spells

 

[Spygon]

Because no one would want be a warrior and rogue in a fantasy game because everybody would just be a mage.Firing unlimited magic at each other would get boring rather fast.

So balance as all games need balance otherwise might aswell have a button that roles the credits