No, Dumbledore is gay 100% of the time. He doesn't necessarily fit the gay 'camp' stereotype 100% of the time, but he's gay 100% of the time.peruvianskys said:
A character should not have to "act gay", to be gay.
Define "A Well Writen Gay Character" in Gaming.
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A character should not have to "act gay", to be gay.
In Awakening he tries to flirt with the Wood elf companion who is a woman. So I would say that he is Bisexual.KhaoticOne said:
Ironically if you play a Female Hawke he magically turns out to be as-far-as-we-know is straight.
I think Anders is an example of a badly written character of any sexual orientation by the fact it is dependant on the gender of Hawke. It's like saying if I was born a woman, my future wife would magically turn bisexual to allow me to woo her.
The problem with this problem is that sometimes a character's sexuality is irrelevant. It never comes up. Take Wario. He could be gay, bisexual, transgender or anything. We will never know because it hasn't been important to know yet. And if we do know it's stated.
Another problem is one way to indicate sexuality is stereotypes. But even then it doesn't say anything about their sexuality. You have very camp heterosexuals in real life for example. Stereotypes are damaging as well.
You can always have a character say something awful like "I am a man and I have a boyfriend/husband" and likewise for a woman. But it feels forced. You don't have characters going "I am a man and I like women". Well, you do, but that's not the point...
As stated earlier the best character is one whose sexuality is 'happened' to be mentioned. Not forced. Not made a big deal. It's just how it is.
Basically there's a lot of characters' sexualities which are not known.
A character who is both well written and gayRJ 17 said:
um...[/thread]
Yeah I think that's appropriate here.
But in true "guy with too much time on his hands fashion I'm not going to stop there!
I'm glad you brought up Mr. Cortez (because I didn't want to steer this towards Bioware)
You can tell if he's written gay character or not based on the answer to one simple question: After you take away the gay-ness what are you left with?
One of the first things he does is bring up his husband, and then dwells on it for the rest of the game. that's his entire arc. (The saving grace is in the character description of "I had a husband" the "had" is what defines him and not "Husband" so credit where credit is due. so you have a grieving widowed man who has a flare (No pun intended) for mechanical engineering.
If you take away the gayness he's still a full fledged character. It certainly doesn't win him any points that he brings up his husband so damn often. But they could have been intentionally trying to make him come off as a little needy? or maybe they were just trying to keep his sexuality fresh in your mind? I don't know that's where Bioware lost me with Steve.
So well written, sure, it comes down to how high your standards are but I say yes. Could he have been better of course. Could he have been worse, oh my god yes.
Thea's a pretty fair way to figure out if a gay character is well written. Determine if they're well written first.
How about an example from the other side of the spectrum. Leliana from Dragon Age. (She's bisexual but still a good example of what I want to talk about)
Everything interesting that happens with her revolves in some way around her sexuality. Even from "Where did a sister like you learn to fight like that?" and she tries to keep her past mysterious, well that's because she's hiding from the woman she used to be sleeping with. She was a bard who fell into a life of crime, because that's what her girl friend was doing.
So beyond the things that are a byproduct of her sexuality we can deduce that she's very impressionable. By becoming the Maker's #1 fan after only fleeing to the Chantry for protection. Then you can pretty much talk her out of her faith later anyway. and She can magically re grow her head (Low blow at Dragon Age 2 plot hole)
Lelianna is a pretty poor example of a non-strait character.
Of course token stereotypes are bad goes without saying.
Back to good I can't off the top of my head think of to many, and even if I could my explanation would be much the same one I gave for Cortez
There's Traynor from ME3, Kanji Tatsumi from Persona 4 (Even though I've never played a Persona game oh no!)
there's uh, Dumbledore from Harry Potter. I guess from the books...
The problem with Gaming is that there are so few well written characters period. asking for more well written gay, women, black, any other type of character is a bit of a moot point when 99% of the time they can't even get strait white males right. While it would be great to see more good gay characters I'd just as happy to see some more well written CHARACTERS! period.
There's a trick I do in games and that's to start off on the assumption that all the characters are gay until they are proven otherwise. It makes so many characters just seem deeper for some reason. Unfortunately this method will result in a disproportionately high number of lesbians, presumably due to some fear of leaving male sexuality ambiguous. But it still helps.
Unless it's part of the plot-line then yeah, just write a character who happens to be gay. I suppose adding onto that just avoid doing anything cliched (making a gay man very flamboyant, worried about his looks and so on, making a gay woman moody, pandering and so on).
There is a huge difference between being a stereotype and having your personality informed by your sexuality. I don't mean to sound rude, but responses like yours seem to come mostly from overly PC straight people. As a queer, I can definitely tell you that my sexuality is inseparable from my larger personality; moreover, I can confirm the same for literally every other LGBT person I have ever met, from doctors and lawyers to drag queens. I have never met in all my life a person whose homosexuality was not an integral part of their being. I suggest spending more time with gay people before just accepting straight liberal assumptions regarding their behavior.SextusMaximus said:
Whenever this discussion pops up, I always bring up the same example:
Meet Ike, the protagonist from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (you may have also seen him in Super Smash Bros. Brawl). Ike is the son of a mercenary captain named Greil. Greil and company work out of the country of Crimea, taking odd jobs to run off bandits and such. One day, things go down hard and the neighbouring country of Daein invades Crimea. The company has to flee the country, escorting the princess of Crimea along the way. Ike eventually assumes control of the Greil Mercenaries, then goes on to help the princess lead an army to retake Crimea.
Ike is unique among the protagonists of the Fire Emblem series for two reasons. First, he is just a normal person. Every other main character is a lord or prince of some sort, while Ike is a commoner, the son of a mercenary captain. But while this is interesting from a series continuity point of view, it isn't as interesting as the second item.
The second unique thing about Ike is his romance options. Normally, FE protagonists have at least one love interest, if not several. Marth has Caeda, Sigurd has Diadora, and Celice, Leaf, Roy, Eliwood, Hector, and Ephraim all have a variety of willing women, while Lyn and Eirika have their choices of men. All of these mentioned romances are legitimately and explicitly romances, with lines like, "I'm falling for you," or, "When this is over, let's stay together," being used frequently.
Ike has two choices for 'pairings': a mage named Soren and a lyncanthrope named Ranulf. What do these two lucky people have in common? They're both male.
Now, Ike's 'romance' with these two isn't really a typical 'romance', but rather they are extremely close friendships that result in a lifelong partnership. If you get the full supports between Ike and either of these two gentlemen, the pair ride off together after the end of the second game to continue travelling together. Soren and Ike also have a very touching scene in Radiant Dawn that further supports the notion of Ike being gay (and outright confirms that Soren sees Ike as more than just a friend). So, while it's never explicitly stated that Ike is gay, there are very strong implications towards this.
But what I found most interesting about Ike's homosexuality, perceived or otherwise, is that it feels like it's a part of his character naturally, rather than being a separate facet of it. One of Ike's defining characteristics is his ability to be unbiased and non-judgmental when he deals with people. To him, a person is a person, regardless of race, gender, or social stature.It ultimately doesn't matter that Soren and Ranulf aren't female, because their gender isn't what drew them and Ike together. Thus, the logical progression for that train of thought is in the end, as cheesy as it sounds, that love is love, regardless of the people involved.
Even if you don't buy that Ike is gay, you can then take the position that he's good example of a truly asexual character - but that's a discussion for another time.
So, while Fire Emblem is rather notorious for having one-note characters, in this particular instance Intelligent Systems did a really good job of creating a unique, complex character.
Meet Ike, the protagonist from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (you may have also seen him in Super Smash Bros. Brawl). Ike is the son of a mercenary captain named Greil. Greil and company work out of the country of Crimea, taking odd jobs to run off bandits and such. One day, things go down hard and the neighbouring country of Daein invades Crimea. The company has to flee the country, escorting the princess of Crimea along the way. Ike eventually assumes control of the Greil Mercenaries, then goes on to help the princess lead an army to retake Crimea.
Ike is unique among the protagonists of the Fire Emblem series for two reasons. First, he is just a normal person. Every other main character is a lord or prince of some sort, while Ike is a commoner, the son of a mercenary captain. But while this is interesting from a series continuity point of view, it isn't as interesting as the second item.
The second unique thing about Ike is his romance options. Normally, FE protagonists have at least one love interest, if not several. Marth has Caeda, Sigurd has Diadora, and Celice, Leaf, Roy, Eliwood, Hector, and Ephraim all have a variety of willing women, while Lyn and Eirika have their choices of men. All of these mentioned romances are legitimately and explicitly romances, with lines like, "I'm falling for you," or, "When this is over, let's stay together," being used frequently.
Ike has two choices for 'pairings': a mage named Soren and a lyncanthrope named Ranulf. What do these two lucky people have in common? They're both male.
Now, Ike's 'romance' with these two isn't really a typical 'romance', but rather they are extremely close friendships that result in a lifelong partnership. If you get the full supports between Ike and either of these two gentlemen, the pair ride off together after the end of the second game to continue travelling together. Soren and Ike also have a very touching scene in Radiant Dawn that further supports the notion of Ike being gay (and outright confirms that Soren sees Ike as more than just a friend). So, while it's never explicitly stated that Ike is gay, there are very strong implications towards this.
But what I found most interesting about Ike's homosexuality, perceived or otherwise, is that it feels like it's a part of his character naturally, rather than being a separate facet of it. One of Ike's defining characteristics is his ability to be unbiased and non-judgmental when he deals with people. To him, a person is a person, regardless of race, gender, or social stature.It ultimately doesn't matter that Soren and Ranulf aren't female, because their gender isn't what drew them and Ike together. Thus, the logical progression for that train of thought is in the end, as cheesy as it sounds, that love is love, regardless of the people involved.
Even if you don't buy that Ike is gay, you can then take the position that he's good example of a truly asexual character - but that's a discussion for another time.
So, while Fire Emblem is rather notorious for having one-note characters, in this particular instance Intelligent Systems did a really good job of creating a unique, complex character.
Okay, I was going to respond with something rather smartass, but I will ask first what you mean exactly here.peruvianskys said:
Like, to you, it would be impossible for a 40 something biker with a huge starting to grey beard to be gay?
I truly apologize if I've misinterpreted this.
EDIT: Nevermind, after reading another post of yours, I must say it is my opinion you have some strange ideas on what defines a gay character, or a gay person for that matter.
Not at all; I've met a few.piinyouri said:
Why are my views on what constitutes a gay person odd? Do you have substantial experience with the LGBT community?
A few characters that come to mind is: Anders(Dragon Age),Gay Tony(GTA 4),Cortez(Mass Effect 3).
If were talking about gay females I can't really think of any if I must be perfectly honest.
If were talking about gay females I can't really think of any if I must be perfectly honest.
lolwotThespian said:
But you said gays were more sexually insecure. This is completely untrue. And ridiculous, considering how much of the culture is built around pandering to the insecure straight male alone (already my point)
And if you broaden it to include heterosexual females, your statement gets even worse.
Which still isn't true.
I'm bisexual and trans; as a 32 year old, I've been onboard with activist causes since before a lot of the members of this site were able to spell activist. I don't mean to sound rude, but responses like yours don't pass the smell test. Like, seriously, I have never met an LGBT person who would claim this sort of thing, and I know it ain't true for me. Perhaps I have been brainwashed by the liberal PC conspiracy or whatever, but come on.peruvianskys said:
A well written gay character would be a character whose sexuality is not a main feature of the character.
I don't get why people think a gay character needs to be running around with a stream of rainbow farts flying out of his ass while he humps anything with a schlong in sight.
We are people, so write a good person. Sexuality means almost nothing when it comes to that.
I don't get why people think a gay character needs to be running around with a stream of rainbow farts flying out of his ass while he humps anything with a schlong in sight.
We are people, so write a good person. Sexuality means almost nothing when it comes to that.
Agreed, it sounds like something ripped out of a book about "Queer theory"; a school of thought so full of meaningless esoteric buzzwords that it is almost completely incomprehensible. My sexuality is an essential part of my personality that is certainly true, but it doesn't mean that my behavior is so fundamentally different from straight people that I'm to be considered a completely different category of human being.Zachary Amaranth said:
peruvianskys said:
That's the thing here.
Before I go on, just know I am not trying to stir up shit here.
Okay then. It just sounded like you where basically saying "Someone who looks straight, but happens to sleep with the opposite sex isn't gay", basically amounting to the example I gave.
I imagine I would have, considering I'm transgendered.
My boyfriend does not have any typical gay traits.
He's essentially a straight acting male who happens to love another male.
And I love that, I don't think it's too awful important to evaluate or re-evaluate yourself on the basis of who you sleep with.
Once again, if that's not what you were saying I've misunderstood and I apologize.
Being gay does not define a person. This is such a dumb question because you could take any well written character and just add in a scene where they kiss another dude. There you go - they are now gay.
Like what do you expect? Some well dressed guy waving to everybody with flappy hands and saying "fabulous!" all the time in your game? I think the reason this discussion exists is because people expect their to be a fundumental difference between gay and straight people, as well as how their relationships play out. Sorry to disappoint you, but even though I'm not gay, I'm pretty sure the only difference is where the dick goes.
Edit: dicks*
Second edit: I don't know if one person is generally a top and one a bottom, or if they switch
Like what do you expect? Some well dressed guy waving to everybody with flappy hands and saying "fabulous!" all the time in your game? I think the reason this discussion exists is because people expect their to be a fundumental difference between gay and straight people, as well as how their relationships play out. Sorry to disappoint you, but even though I'm not gay, I'm pretty sure the only difference is where the dick goes.
Edit: dicks*
Second edit: I don't know if one person is generally a top and one a bottom, or if they switch