Definition of a Race - An argument between friends

[El Poncho]

Technically, a set group of like past events [english/grammar nazis, I know that made no sense.....] would define just a group of people, however, in the sense of characteristics Ill use a common one, and like Yahtzee "NOT A RACIST".

Black people have more defined characteristics than white people, for instance, teeth are at more of an outward angle while whit [Angelo-Saxon/Caucasian?] teeth are more flat, the reason because of this? I dont know...... the same reason for Asian peoples eyes being more slanted that both black and white people, does anyone really know the answer to it? Basically if people didnt have these characteristics they wouldn't really be able to be divided into races, in fact all that would remain would be skin color, and defining anyone based on that is just stupid [I have said it before, I wish I was born in South Africa so I could be declared a White African-American.......]

I think humans have different characteristics because we were all once in africa then we began to explore, when we explored we came up against different weather conditions therefor they evolved(something like evolved) to adapt to the conditions they are in, thats why we are white because there wasn't alot of sun in europe and the dark colour we had was reflecting the sun and because of that we didn't get enough vitamin D so we evolved white skin to gather as much Vitamin D we could get

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

I recall taking a biology course where the professor pointed out that race is a purely social construct. The genetics of what many define as 'race', black/white/yellow/whatever color, are limited to a very small number of alleles that determine skin color, while the rest of the DNA is discounted. I am a tall American guy with pasty skin and red hair, but I may have more genetic similarity to some Bushman in the Kalahari than I do with the Prime Minister of Ireland. When people base their views of race on physical appearance (expressed alleles) they're really only seeing about .0000000001% of a person's genes. Considering that chimps have DNA about 97% similar to human, I find prejudice and bigotry based on skin tone and other minor physical attributes to be rather silly.

 

[Steel Ronin]

whops didn't mean to post

 

[L4hlborg]

I think we should just let Oxford decide:

race - noun

1) each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
2) racial origin or distinction: rights based on race.
3) a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
4) a group of people or things with a common feature.
5) (Biology) a distinct population within a species; a subspecies.

So that makes it nice and clear *sarcasm*

Lol. It actually mentions both of the main arguments. I guess it's both then. Well if I was asked what a race is, I'd say a species of something that is defined by similiar features.

 

[matt_newgrove]

People are all one race, and that is the Human Race. Lions, tigers and pet cats are all part of the same race, they felines or Felidae whatever you want to call it. All the same thing even tho they might look and act differently.

I think that what you are speaking about is species not race, the two tend to get mixed up. I'd say a race is more of a geographical variation of a species which has not been separated from other pupulations of its own species long enough to have evolved into a sub-species.

It is one race. We all humans. And a true definition of species is even worse than race.

In the end the white guy in Finland is exactly the same as the black guy in South Africa. What changes is size, skin colour, beliefs, culture etc. Exactly the same way that my domestic cat is exactly the same as a tiger in India. What changed? Well the tiger is bigger, has a different colour, it will probably think and act differently than my cat, blá blá. Yet biological they the same.

And species is a really dangerous path.

I was only pointing out that you mixed up the terminology in your original post.
Though i have to correct you about the cat-tiger thing: they are both sub-species of the same species, which means that they have originally come from the same animal, but through geographical separation they have evolved to survive in different enviroments, and because they've evolved in different directons for so long they can either not have cubs together at all or the resulting cross-breed will be born sterile. This is when they are defined as sub-species and not only a racial variations.

So i say caucasians,latinos,africans etc.etc are only racial variations of homo-sapiens and im not implying that our differences matter in any other than minor ways like aesthetics or light skinned people getting sunburnt easier, I'm simply viewing things through a darwinian perspective.

 

[similar.squirrel]

I think race applies to the physical characteristics.
The rest is heritage. Africa is an entire continent, composed mainly of dark-skinned people. And quite a huge variety of cultures.
That's an adequate example, I guess.

 

[Jedoro]

I kinda think of the different ethnic groups as just "tribes" and not "races," since any man around the world is capable of reproducing with any woman around the world.

 

[sheic99]

People are all one race, and that is the Human Race. Lions, tigers and pet cats are all part of the same race, they felines or Felidae whatever you want to call it. All the same thing even tho they might look and act differently.

Lion, tigers and cats are not considered to be the same race. They are in the same family, but not the same genus or species.

OT: The simplest way to define a race(scientifically) is through breeding. If the offspring of two animals has a high fertility rate, then they are part of the same race. If the fertility rate is low like it is in mules(horse/donkey) or ligers(lion/tiger), then they are not. As humans have no problems with fertility on a large scale, then we are the same race. Secondly, the concept of race comes back to social darwinist beliefs that one group of humans are better than others which created 5 subgroups of humans, Caucasoid, Negroid, Capoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid. The only things that define the differences between these people are physical differences that were adapted. These methods have since been disproven.

In summary, there is one race of humans, and the proper way to define groups of people would be by a shared cultural heritage.

 

[Haydyn]

Races are a way people prejudge and stereotype one another. Different races are treated differently. Until race is thrown out of the picture, we will all live in an unequal world.

 

[jockslap]

to be honest i think races are sorta inconsequential to those who have risen above such petty issues, but i think the safe bet would be to follow the scientific method and claim race based on heritage, as in if you're heritage traced back leads to China, then you sir, are chinese, Etc. (an interesting sidenote, at the very beginning were all african anyways, so forget you're differences and get along u moronic racists!)

 

[Thurmer]

(an interesting sidenote, at the very beginning were all african anyways, so forget you're differences and get along u moronic racists!)

haha very true, how are so many people racist when we can't even define race, damn ignorance i spose

 

[Boxpopper]

Actually you are using the word too loosely. "Race" is defined purely by biological characteristics, while cultural characteristics fall under "nationality". For instance, there is no such thing as the "german" race, even though they are a group of people separate from others. Just like there is no "black" nationality.

 

[TheNumber1Zero]

well,I am european,even though I was born in america,because of my familys blood and history.I guess it depends on what is in your blood.not history,not body shape,but blood.

 

[teisjm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)

That should be enough info.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

People say that we're all the same, that we are all part of the Human Race, but I really don't agree.

were not all the same. Massively differing cultures and ethnic backgrounds can be found across the world. Don't tell me that Australian Aborigines are the same as say, People of Nordic descent. They look different, they speak different, they do things differently and they have different cultures. Sure they are the same species, but they couldn't be much more different culturally and ethnically. It's stupid to just say "hey man, were all the same really ya know?" and ignore these important differences.

So I would say that race is defined by culture, location, language and ethnicity. If a group of people have all these factors in common, they are a race.

Haha but surely you've heard of the Aboriginal Nords? They roamed the of Antartica, often lost to sight between snow drifts! All nonsense aside, though, that's a better point than most anything I've ever heard on the topic. Sure, you might break it down and try to claim that there are three, Caucasoid, Mongolid, and Negroid, but between and among those they are far too different to even allow that a wobbly stance on the matter.

To the people who say that domestic cats are practically the same as tigers and lions... stop being stupid. They come from separate Genuses of Felidae Family. They're as different as dogs and foxes, or whales and dolphins, or snakes and eels. Slightly similar, but intrinsically different, biologically speaking.

You're my hero. I just thought I'd say that.

well races exist for a reason black people are black because they live in Africa (not only africa now apparently because of all you silly americans)and it is a place were it's very hot and their skin is to protect them from the sun that's why only whiteys get tan.

Gods, I do hope you were being sarcastic, because I laughed for a few minutes at how ridiculous that statement is. Heh, because it's hot their skin is dark...ahh, that was refreshing, thank you for the free amusement.

 

[Thurmer]

Actually you are using the word too loosely. "Race" is defined purely by biological characteristics, while cultural characteristics fall under "nationality". For instance, there is no such thing as the "german" race, even though they are a group of people separate from others. Just like there is no "black" nationality.

Yes, I totally agree and thats pretty much 'Another Confused census taker's point, in that we are categorized by race over physical/biological characteristics that are inherited (eg. having the same scar obv doesnt make you the same race) and while yes history and culture may of changed 'races' over time what we use to define race isn't history but appearance and biological characteristics. Anyone beg is disagree?

 

[Veylon]

It's an inherently fuzzy answer. It's like asking when Cold becomes Hot. Obviously, there are some temperatures that can be agreed upon as hot, and others as cold, but there is an area in the middle where reasonable people will disagree.

Asking "What is Race" is a trick question to boggle those obsessed with strict classification. It's like asking when, exactly, Old English became Middle English. Words gradually came and went, making one into the other over a period of time.

Race, or at least the physical expressions of the genes that cause particular appearances, is based on genes. You could, I suppose, take every possible permutation of these genes and assign a racial label to it, thus having a "scientific" way to organize people. The only problem then is getting people to agree on what label fits which set of genes. That, then, is a matter of opinion. Nature doesn't come with labels, we make them up.

 

[Steel Ronin]

People say that we're all the same, that we are all part of the Human Race, but I really don't agree.

were not all the same. Massively differing cultures and ethnic backgrounds can be found across the world. Don't tell me that Australian Aborigines are the same as say, People of Nordic descent. They look different, they speak different, they do things differently and they have different cultures. Sure they are the same species, but they couldn't be much more different culturally and ethnically. It's stupid to just say "hey man, were all the same really ya know?" and ignore these important differences.

So I would say that race is defined by culture, location, language and ethnicity. If a group of people have all these factors in common, they are a race.

Haha but surely you've heard of the Aboriginal Nords? They roamed the of Antartica, often lost to sight between snow drifts! All nonsense aside, though, that's a better point than most anything I've ever heard on the topic. Sure, you might break it down and try to claim that there are three, Caucasoid, Mongolid, and Negroid, but between and among those they are far too different to even allow that a wobbly stance on the matter.

To the people who say that domestic cats are practically the same as tigers and lions... stop being stupid. They come from separate Genuses of Felidae Family. They're as different as dogs and foxes, or whales and dolphins, or snakes and eels. Slightly similar, but intrinsically different, biologically speaking.

You're my hero. I just thought I'd say that.

well races exist for a reason black people are black because they live in Africa (not only africa now apparently because of all you silly americans)and it is a place were it's very hot and their skin is to protect them from the sun that's why only whiteys get tan.

Gods, I do hope you were being sarcastic, because I laughed for a few minutes at how ridiculous that statement is. Heh, because it's hot their skin is dark...ahh, that was refreshing, thank you for the free amusement.

sorry i was drunk and you are apperantly a jerk