See... You say people dismiss valid stuff as "orange man bad" right after and before saying nothing more than "orange man bad". Odd.
Democrats already retreating from public option before DNC even starts
- Thread starter Eacaraxe
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Maybe if The DNC didn't cry the same cry every election, we might actually listen. But no, every damn election is "Vote for The Democrat because the other side is evil, NEXT time is going to be when we'll vote for someone who will actually try to change and fix things". The Democrats have played that card ever since I was allowed to vote, I'm starting to think that maybe "next time" isn't ever going to come with them in charge...
And you're kidding yourself if you think Joe "Shoot'em in the Leg" Biden and Kamala "Hidin the evidence and Lock'em Up" Harris wouldn't be on Team Unmarked Vans.
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Because every time we get democrats they start improving things then the republicans get in and fuck things up and deadlock things. How do you not see this?
Here's the thing with Trump: he's not a partisan. I call him a Democrat, and I think my justification for that is pretty darn solid, but I understand that's a controversial claim. Regardless, that man is not a traditional party line Republican. When he says he want to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something better, I guarantee he means it. He's Trump, he doesn't know or care about the details of good healthcare legislation, he literally just wants his name on something good. And there is a significant number of Trump voters who aren't loyal Republicans, along with plenty actual Republican voters who recognize our health system is trash, who would sign on to the right platform. If at any point in the last 2 years Democrats wanted to work on healthcare, all they'd have to do is let Trump put his name on it and the Senate would be flanked on both sides.
Consider: the sticking point that blocked meaningful immigration reform wasn't it costing too much for Republicans. It was paying for a wall.
Like, I'm not suggesting the Republican party currently represents the policies you want. I'm suggesting that it could work towards policies you'd like. I don't imagine you going "well, I'm a Republican now", but the party-less masses of Americans can and should be inserting their ideas into both major parties. The people in here declaring Trump and/or Republicans literal nazis aren't helping anyone except maybe literal nazis.
For the first two years of Trump, we had Republicans getting things done, and then Democrats got power and deadlocked things.
Name one major change you like that Democrats did? They've done nothing on immigration, the courts plugged the hole. They did nothing with LGBTQ issues, the courts did that instead. Obamacare is 95% dumpster fire with pre-existing condition protections as the single positive. At what point since FDR did Democrats actually enact anything meaningful, not just take credit for social and cultural changes that took place around them?
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Not really, trump did get thoes tax cuts in but even republicans were lukewarm on his wall funding.
They did DACA, they also helped make gay marriage legal both by appointed judges and by Obama's AG not contesting it. The ACA is great, its the first time I've had good health insurance since I moved off my parents plan and its way cheaper then the shit tier catastrophic plan I had before was. We also had global warming plans under both Clinton and Obama, which republicans that came in after removed. Not to mention the Iran nuclear deal which was a fantastic deal for curbing Iranian nuclear development and establishing good diplomatic relations, which trump pulled us out of since he didn't like Obama's name on it. Those are just things off the top of my head.
Easy, because even when The DNC is in charge, they don't do anything (unless asking for an inch when we need a mile and then gets negotiated down to half an inch counts as doing things; see The ACA from my previous post). Even then, the half an inch that they "fought" for gets eliminated when The Republicans shove it a foot backwards. Then The Democrats come back, ask for another inch only to get negotiated to the half an inch again and the wheel of Token Resistance rolls on. If we just exclusively kept Democrats in power, we might finally get our mile in about 63,360 years.
The DNC has made it absolutely crystal clear that they don't serve The People, they serve their Corporate Donors and I don't get how you can't see that.
Tippy, you’ve made the incorrect assumption that any of these people think any of these changes are possible. They lack any faith in our institutions or fellow man. What little the Democrats accomplish, they think that’s all that can be done. Such pessimism is the privilege of those who are comfortable to imagine this is the best things can be.
Name a Republican policy that was enacted anything meaningful, and not just taking credit for social and cultural changes that took place around them
I don’t think Obamacare works as intended, and isn’t very good. It’s way better than anything the Republicans have enacted.
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So instead of moving that 1 mile, you'd rather move -12 instead. Makes total sense. Also, fuck all those people negatively affected by that 13 mile difference; if you don't get exactly what you want, who cares if others are suffering more?
Do you really believe that political opinions are a circle (or horseshoe...) where the far left is equal to the far right? Or are you just assuming that they can suffer integer underflows?
Yeah, the guy who won't VBNMW is the one blinded by partisanship
No, I believe that what I want out of our leaders I will not be getting from Biden (Biden himself confirmed my #1 issue would be vetoed if it came across his desk, he can throw in all the flowery language about costs but at the end of the day, Biden would veto M4A if it came across his desk). So why would I support him? I am also part of the camp that does believe that caving and rewarding The DNC for the years of "NEXT election will be the time for change" is going to do nothing but give us more Biden's.
The DNC can choose to embrace Progressive policies or they can choose to embrace Moderate Republicans; they can't do both. They have chosen The Moderate Republicans. So Fuck'em, I'm going to vote for someone who believes in my values instead.
I'm convinced "getting exactly what you want" is code for "stop asking for anything at all ever". You're not supposed to have policy goals, just a jersey.Yeah, the guy who won't VBNMW is the one blinded by partisanship
No, I believe that what I want out of our leaders I will not be getting from Biden (Biden himself confirmed my #1 issue would be vetoed if it came across his desk, he can throw in all the flowery language about costs but at the end of the day, Biden would veto M4A if it came across his desk). So why would I support him? I am also part of the camp that does believe that caving and rewarding The DNC for the years of "NEXT election will be the time for change" is going to do nothing but give us more Biden's.
The DNC can choose to embrace Progressive policies or they can choose to embrace Moderate Republicans; they can't do both. They have chosen The Moderate Republicans. So Fuck'em, I'm going to vote for someone who believes in my values instead.
Isn’t there more slavery now than when slavery was illegal? Great idea, about as effective as Obamacare
Edit: Something like the EPA is a good idea, except the GOP has worked hard to undermine its own policy
We will not move 1 mile forward with Biden, we will move back 11 rather than 12. For many this isn’t a distinguishable difference.
Edit: before this transforms into a harm reduction argument, I’ll reiterate this isn’t my issue with Biden. My issue is that he wants to throw me in jail and my willingness to vote for him anyway at this point is rooted in the belief that he will never actually be president because 2020 will end with America falling apart completely.
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On what planet have you spent the last four years? Bernie was more than willing to talk about "HoW wE gUn PaY 4 It?!?!?", he did at exorbitant length and excruciating detail. Repeatedly. And every think tank left of Heritage Foundation all agree, it's cheaper overall while actually pushing for-profit insurers out of the market and at less cost to the consumer.
It's dead simple: nominal FICA increase and remove the FICA cap, nominal income tax increase by income bracket and changing capital gains taxation to reflect income taxation, eliminate tax shelters and subsidies for private insurers. That pays entirely for M4A to the penny while still being revenue-positive for lower- and middle-income taxpayers, because lower- and middle-income taxpayers are no longer financially liable for premiums, deductibles, and copays. In other words, yes, consumers pay more in taxes, but they pay less for health care, and the savings in health care costs are more than the tax increase.
There's literally a whole-damn-ass word document on his page about it.
Blame neoliberal news outlets for refusing to report on the cost of M4A honestly and relying on dishonest scare tactics, while health care-funded propaganda machines destroyed the signal to noise ratio, by erroneously inflating "da troo cawst" of M4A with absolute bullshit figures and screaming "yer tax gun go up!" while ignoring the cost savings to consumers.
EDIT: And here's the absolute rock-bottom line on it. It's supported by 90% of Democratic voters. If Democrats are unwilling or incapable of adopting a plank supported by nine-tenths of its own party because it makes donors sad, fuck 'em. What is the point of a political party if it will not actually endorse and represent the policy positions of its own voters?
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