Demonization of Moviebob and other Escapist Staff

[faefrost]

I think Jim and Greg have probably taken a bit more flak for any of this than they deserved. Particularly Jim who everyone seemed to think they were entitled to his opinion one way or the other. And for that I am sorry as a Gamer than he had to go through it.

Moviebob behaved like a man child on Twitter and brought pretty much all of it down on his own head. And whenever it died down he would be a Twit yet again. I don't condone death threats, personal threats, doxxing hacking or anything that crosses into real abuse. However getting into a keyboard slap fight with the worlds nerd population because you chose to be a flaming jackass online seems to be something of an expected cause and effect. if you can't tolerate being called a "shitweasel" don't pick up the keyboard.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour. Anyone who derides or dehumanises the other side of a discussion can fuck right off, I hate that shit.

Also Jim Sterling can come out as a baby eating Nazi and I would still dig him because of how he frames his opinions. I have a lot of respect for that. Even if I vehemently disagree with Jim. He is a very good guy to have around.

 

[firebobm173]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour.

Ok could you give me an example of how he's a hypocrite? I know that he rubs people who disagree with him the wrong way but I have yet to see outright hypocrisy on his part.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour.

Ok could you give me an example of how he's a hypocrite? I know that he rubs people who disagree with him the wrong way but I have yet to see outright hypocrisy on his part.

It's purely my opinion now. But a simple enough one off the top of my head is in many of his videos he objectifies woman, and then in his Sucker Punch discussion he describes his feminist position. And again, this week he posted a video about a Japanese film about a woman who's main feature is her sexuality and mentions absolutely nothing about how it compares to his so called feminist viewpoint, it's all in good fun now apparently. This is just my opinion, but he really feels like a trend-fucker (a variation of star fucker) His opinion is whatever is the popular belief at the time.

As for his flip flopping on the Man OF Steel review, while not exactly hypocrisy. It just put the bullet in the head for any level of professional credibility. I have to give massive respect to Greg Tito for gamely wearing that Dragon Age 2 review all these years and standing by it. If, in the space of a week your opinion flips 180 on a film and you call yourself a professional film critic. Then I am not ever listening to you again. I knew that film was dogs hit when I saw it and I don't have time to listen to someone alternating between being hyped up and jaded by the movie industry. Stand by your principles man and fuck off with the affected angst.

 

[Namehere]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour.

Ok could you give me an example of how he's a hypocrite? I know that he rubs people who disagree with him the wrong way but I have yet to see outright hypocrisy on his part.

Are you serious? This would be humerous if I didn't think you actually believed all the few things I've seen you say here.

It's painfully clear that Zoe Quin tried to monetize a brand for feminism. She didn't try to create an understanding of feminism, she didn't try to promote feminism or women in gaming for that matter, she tried to sell a seal - akin to the old gold Nintendo seal - that certify feminist friendly. And if you didn't PAY her, you didn't get it. In fact, media organizations that supported her - more or less blindly no less - managed to all but destroy TFYC program, which has thankfully rebounded. Silverstring media claimed to have DDOSed them. Then of course there are the false allegations against WizChan, the general broad based generalizations being thrown around about numerous groups of people in all of this. All with the notion that: "To not tar them all would let the bad ones hide, and fail to fully support the initiative/agenda." And if you think Movie Bob's Twitter behavior at the start of this was at all acceptable, then you can't have problems with the conduct of those in GamerGate - or you hate the people in GamerGate and assume they hate you.

I'm all for social justice and equity between the sexes. I'm not for extortion and racketeering. I'm not for 'ignorance movements' doing extreme, maybe even long term, damage to the notion of social justice and equality between the sexes - not to mention progressivism - which is exactly what ZQ and Silverstring and supporters have done.

These 'so-called' feminists would have you believe that the inventor of the rape whistle was an apologist and was subtly endorsing rape culture. After all that person went out and did something that people could adopt. Well if he or she could do all that, why didn't he or she end rape entirely? I suppose god hates women too.

Is anyone stopping ZQ from making another game? Is anyone stopping these indi developers from making the sort of games they want? As to Anita, you can tell me this or that game is sexist all day long. I can't do thing one about that, I DON'T MAKE GAMES. Why do I hear about this? Why is she talking to me when she ought to be talking to EA, Activision and the other major gaming studios? I don't make games, and with the way AAA gaming has tried to monetize everything I now barely buy or play them. I'm into some indi games, although with Green Light in it's present state it's fair to say buying an indi game that isn't finished is basically throwing money and a prayer at an idea. So what is the big deal here? What am I doing that's so wrong here? What have we all done that was so wrong here?

If they mean to say that there is no market for the sort of games they want to make, then I can't help them. I'm obviously still not going to buy that game. And frankly, they aren't going to stop the production of Space Engineers or Star Made - my two current interests.

As for Bob, I'll make this as simple as possible, because I figure it airs globally and is about as socially aware as Television gets: "What would Captain Picard say, about Bob's Tweets?" Would he throw in behind him, being big on equal rights as his character suggests? I don't think so. Maybe you should think about that and the tactics being employed here by the 'majority' of people in opposition to GamerGate and their organizations.

 

[Edl01]

I'm totally lost as to what this whole thing means?
Can somebody summarize what happened?

I'd recommend my link to moviebob's intermission article(it's the second link from the top in my list of relevant moviebob commentary in the original post). The article itself has many good links, but is a little old. Only one major development has happened since then. I'll give you a link about it here [http://www.dailydot.com/geek/zoe-quinn-outs-4chan-behind-gamergate/].

Wow, I just read that article and I think my IQ dropped just by looking at it...4Chan isn't some massive evil coporation run by hundreds of evil politians plotting to take down the game industry. The simple idea that an image board, nevermind Bloody 4Chan, could plan the entire Gamer Gate movement is laughable at best and suggests the writer doesn't know what 4Chan actually is at worst. I hear that 4chan also formed ISIS and are the ones actually advising Putin to go to war with Ukraine.

On topic: I don't like MovieBob, like at all, he just says a lot fo things that I disagree with which has lead to me not watching his videos. But it's ridiculous suggesting he be fired simply for giving his(honestly quite uninformed) opinion on the scandal. You can't say MovieBob didn't bring this on himself of course, we had already seen bigger personalities like Totalbiscuit getting invited so this really isn't all that suprising, but I still agree with the majority opinion that he shouldn't lose his job over it.

 

[Cronenberg1]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Ask Ryan Perez?
He was fired for saying drunken, mean things about Felicia Day on twitter.

Issued a formal, public apology and was STILL fired.
People seem to forget about him in all this.

MovieBob did worse this, didn't really apologize and has suffered no consequences.

Right because getting a little out of hand while defending those who are harassed online is the same thing as harassing someone online? There's a difference between strongly disagreeing with a movement and directly insulting a specific person. I'm not saying Ryan should have been fired, but I do think that these are different issues. Also Bob did apologize for some of the more incendiary things he said, he doesn't support "gamer gate" but you can't ask to have him fired for that.

 

[Karadalis]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Ask Ryan Perez?
He was fired for saying drunken, mean things about Felicia Day on twitter.

Issued a formal, public apology and was STILL fired.
People seem to forget about him in all this.

MovieBob did worse this, didn't really apologize and has suffered no consequences.

Right because getting a little out of hand while defending those who are harassed online is the same thing as harassing someone online? There's a difference between strongly disagreeing with a movement and directly insulting a specific person. I'm not saying Ryan should have been fired, but I do think that these are different issues. Also Bob did apologize for some of the more incendiary things he said, he doesn't support "gamer gate" but you can't ask to have him fired for that.

So its okay to behave like a troll if its for a good cause and if you give out half hearted apologies? Right gotcha.

(btw he should not loose his job over this, however i expect someone to reign him in a bit since his statements will and maybe even have allready damaged the reputation of his employers)

I dont agree with people calling for his head, just dont watch his content or click on articles he wrote. If his viewership takes a drop he might realize that he has to reevaluate his methods of getting his message to people. If it doesnt then he obviously has done nothing wrong in the eyes of the majority.

Surprising how simple this all can be right?

 

[Ramzal]

MovieBob claimed that people who have opinions were as bad or worse than ISIS... Either he is making light of what ISIS does or he is really just delusional as to what ISIS really is or does. And honestly that's crossing a giant line. I don't think he CAN be punished for his words but he does represent The Escapist as part of it, so that's just not a good look in general. Jim doesn't really deserve much if any of the negativity he is receiving. Greg... eh. I like a few of his works, but for the most part he comes off a bit to protective of things he probably doesn't fully understand. That being said, I'm sure Greg isn't a bad person (Probably a fun guy to hang around and talk to) but not someone I'd want to her their personal philosophies from.

That being said, all of the above are talents in their trades.

 

[firebobm173]

It's purely my opinion now. But a simple enough one off the top of my head is in many of his videos he objectifies woman, and then in his Sucker Punch discussion he describes his feminist position. And again, this week he posted a video about a Japanese film about a woman who's main feature is her sexuality and mentions absolutely nothing about how it compares to his so called feminist viewpoint, it's all in good fun now apparently. This is just my opinion, but he really feels like a trend-fucker (a variation of star fucker) His opinion is whatever is the popular belief at the time.

As for his flip flopping on the Man OF Steel review, while not exactly hypocrisy. It just put the bullet in the head for any level of professional credibility. I have to give massive respect to Greg Tito for gamely wearing that Dragon Age 2 review all these years and standing by it. If, in the space of a week your opinion flips 180 on a film and you call yourself a professional film critic. Then I am not ever listening to you again. I knew that film was dogs hit when I saw it and I don't have time to listen to someone alternating between being hyped up and jaded by the movie industry. Stand by your principles man and fuck off with the affected angst.

Ok now I am going to point out that moviebob can talk about things without constantly bringing up sexism. I would also like to add that sexiness and appreciation thereof=/=objectification. And I mean come on, do you really think that that movie's main draw wasn't the sheer insanity of it? I'd also like to add that, just as Anita Sarkeesian says in the beginning of every tropes vs women video, that you can enjoy something while admitting that certain elements of it are problematic. And BTW, changing your mind about something does not damage someone's credibility. Nobody's opinions are set in stone, no matter how professional they are. As for standing by his principles, he'd already taken a TON of shit for his feminism and criticism of nerd culture before all this started. If he didn't stand for his principles he would've stopped talking about it long ago, but he really believes in what he's saying.

 

[CaitSeith]

MovieBob claimed that people who have opinions were as bad or worse than ISIS... Either he is making light of what ISIS does or he is really just delusional as to what ISIS really is or does. And honestly that's crossing a giant line. I don't think he CAN be punished for his words but he does represent The Escapist as part of it, so that's just not a good look in general. Jim doesn't really deserve much if any of the negativity he is receiving. Greg... eh. I like a few of his works, but for the most part he comes off a bit to protective of things he probably doesn't fully understand. That being said, I'm sure Greg isn't a bad person (Probably a fun guy to hang around and talk to) but not someone I'd want to her their personal philosophies from.

That being said, all of the above are talents in their trades.

Uh? I thought that was [a href="https://twitter.com/devincf/status/503647651103899648"]Devin Faraci[/a]. Do you have the link to where Bob said that?

 

[Agayek]

Uh? I thought that was Devin Faraci. Do you have the link to where Bob said that?

That was indeed Faraci. Bob just called everyone who disagreed with him subhuman insects and fat, neckbearded virgins.

And then he wrote an article for this very site holding Faraci up as the savior of gaming, well after the whole "worse than ISIS" comment. So yeah, Bob isn't much better.

Personally, I don't think he should lose his job, but he does need to learn how to control himself on Twitter, and his extremely unprofessional behavior should merit professional consequences of some kind. Just as Faraci's, Alexander's, and several other journalists' should. It won't, because apparently gaming media is immune to the basic standards of professionalism every other industry in the universe has to deal with, but it should.

 

[CaitSeith]

Uh? I thought that was Devin Faraci. Do you have the link to where Bob said that?

That was indeed Faraci. Bob just called everyone who disagreed with him subhuman insects and fat, neckbearded virgins.

And then he wrote an article for this very site holding Faraci up as the savior of gaming, well after the whole "worse than ISIS" comment. So yeah, Bob isn't much better.

Personally, I don't think he should lose his job, but he does need to learn how to control himself on Twitter, and his extremely unprofessional behavior should merit professional consequences of some kind. Just as Faraci's, Alexander's, and several other journalists' should. It won't, because apparently gaming media is immune to the basic standards of professionalism every other industry in the universe has to deal with, but it should.

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

And I'm not talking about the indie games. I'm talking about the AAA ones, owned by the fat cats (Microsoft, EA, Activision, Sony, etc...) who control the best-sellers, and give the final veredict of how the game has to be (whetever the developper likes it or not). And they aren't moved by MovieBob's, Faraci's, Alexander's, Zoe's, Anita's, Jack Thompson's, or any SJW's words; but by money.

At least that's my theory...

 

[Agayek]

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

And I'm not talking about the indie games. I'm talking about the AAA ones, owned by the fat cats (Microsoft, EA, Activision, Sony, etc...) who control the best-sellers, and give the final veredict of how the game has to be (whetever the developper likes it or not). And they aren't moved by MovieBob's, Faraci's, Alexander's, Zoe's, Anita's, Jack Thompson's, or any SJW's words; but by money.

At least that's my theory...

It's certainly possible, but it's definitely affected their employers' bottom line. Just look at the alexa rankings for gamasutra, polygon, kotaku, etc. They all plummeted after the recent kerfluffle (gamasutra's at the lowest point it's been all year), explicitly because of the deplorable and unprofessional behavior of several journalists on Twitter and in the articles they publish. Hell, kotaku and polygon have both lost some pretty goddamn big sponsors over it. You'd have expected the bean counters at those sites to be a little more concerned about their steadily dwindling income than they appear to be.

 

[CaitSeith]

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

And I'm not talking about the indie games. I'm talking about the AAA ones, owned by the fat cats (Microsoft, EA, Activision, Sony, etc...) who control the best-sellers, and give the final veredict of how the game has to be (whetever the developper likes it or not). And they aren't moved by MovieBob's, Faraci's, Alexander's, Zoe's, Anita's, Jack Thompson's, or any SJW's words; but by money.

At least that's my theory...

It's certainly possible, but it's definitely affected their employers' bottom line. Just look at the alexa rankings for gamasutra, polygon, kotaku, etc. They all plummeted after the recent kerfluffle (gamasutra's at the lowest point it's been all year), explicitly because of the deplorable and unprofessional behavior of several journalists on Twitter and in the articles they publish. Hell, kotaku and polygon have both lost some pretty goddamn big sponsors over it. You'd have expected the bean counters at those sites to be a little more concerned about their steadily dwindling income than they appear to be.

Wow! It's frightening how closesly the Internet is monitored. *no sarcasm intended*
I think I'll put on my tin foil hat before continuing. *sarcasm intended*

OT. Where can I find information about the lose of Kotaku's and Polygon's sponsors?

 

[Agayek]

OT. Where can I find information about the lose of Kotaku's and Polygon's sponsors?

There were screengrabs of email responses from the sponsors (which basically said "thank you for your concern, be aware that we have indeed removed all ads from that site and won't use it again") floating around on Twitter when it happened. So far, I believe Kotaku's lost 2 sponsors and Polygon 1. I'll see if I can dig up the images.

 

[Adam Lester]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

I'm pretty sure that if a man who slept with 5 woman to give themselves perfect reviews for a lazy cyoa, then using their connections to mute those who opposed, then doxed themselves and blamed gamers was fired, their really wouldn't be much drama. Or people running to his defence. Especially if they admitted they had sex to get the reviews, and had harrased someone at a wedding (and their "feminist" privilege would be promptly withdrawn).

Apparently the morality is only obvious if its a man, woman obviously can't be held to the same standards that men can.. right?

I have more respect for woman than most SJWs, I can actually see and treat ment and woman as equals. On the internet, neither gender deserves or needs special privelges

To tell you the truth, the gamergate thing isn't that big a deal, but on the other hand people (men and women alike) have been getting fed up with all the SJW bullshit for quite some time now. Look at what it's done to The Escapist, every third damned thread is bitching about the severe lack of bisexual midgets in wheelchairs in their vidya games.

So when Zoe Quinn who was a lesser known representative of the feminist movement in gaming had her little woops and with Kotaku no less, which is known as a notorious den of pseudo intellectual and social justice bullshit that made it look like Tumblr ate a stack of old "Nintendo Power" magazines and took a dump, folk ripped into it with extreme prejudice for the same reason people flip out whenever Justin Biber does anything...because it's an easy target that we love to hate. It was like someone took all that random derping that Moviebob does, all those "too many white guys at E3" arguments, Feminist Frequency and then rolled them all up in one delicious little package and painted a bulls-eye on it.

I honestly don't think a majority of the gaming community is sexist in any way shape or form. A good chunk of us are just sick of all this crap and would like to just enjoy our video games without the worry of being sexist, homophobic or ablest just because we enjoy playing something. Maybe we'd like to pick up a controller without asking ourselves "Is Legend of Zelda homophobic?" or some other nonsense that should only come up after a fifth of rum with a close friend.

 

[wulf3n]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Ask Ryan Perez?
He was fired for saying drunken, mean things about Felicia Day on twitter.

Issued a formal, public apology and was STILL fired.
People seem to forget about him in all this.

MovieBob did worse this, didn't really apologize and has suffered no consequences.

Don't forget about these guys [http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spiraled-way-out-of-control/], hell they didn't even insult anyone.

 

[Fox12]

I like the Escapist Staff, especially Greg Tito. I respect their views, even if I don't agree with them all the time, and I usually support their social justice opinions.

But seriously? Screw Movie Bob. He's a poor reviewer who's admitted his own bias. His reviews are based more on his political agendas then on the actual quality of the film, and they typically very shallow. He's unprofessional to a fault, goes on angry rants, and generally doesn't treat others with respect. His poor attitude and low quality content makes him, frankly, a liability to this website.

 

[carnex]

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

Woaaaa, just a second, let me soak that up.

That is one fucked up metrics you are using there. Employing and terminating employment of journalists should never be based on "effect" of their transgression but rather severity of their transgression. I could shame a person into depression and still not really affect anything other than that person. But I should still get my ass not only fired but labeled unemployable in the journalistic capacities.