Demonization of Moviebob and other Escapist Staff

[Uriel_Hayabusa]

I didn't vote in that poll about whether or not Bob should be fired, but I do think that his conduct throughout the peak of the Quinn shitstorm was all kinds of unprofessional. It's good that he came around on that later in that ''A Long Post About #GamerGate'' post on his blog but I have my objections about that as well, I particularly feel that he's in no position to play the ''We did what we had to do"-card in regards to opposing Jack Thompson. Fact is that Thompson ALSO received death threats and harassment for voicing his objections with gaming.


Where was the outrage from Bob (and by extension, the gaming press) when Jack Thompson was targeted by the worst elements of the gaming community? That was, if nothing else, a time to make a stand and draw some lines in the sand as to how you do and don't adress criticism towards gaming. I suspect that the gaming media's failure to do so set a precedent for this current mess.

 

[Jake Martinez]

I always thought gamers were more, shall we say, liberal?

But as this 'gamegate' thing explodes...
Well, I'm wondering of some Tea Party/Golden Dawn/etc, have just been some kind of sleeper cells just WAITING to explode onto the scene.

It's...very sad and pathetic.

I'm extremely liberal and I consider myself a feminist. I fully support Anita Sarkeesian's right to make videos and I am hopeful that someday she will engage in debate around their content.

However, I am quite upset at what appears to be blatant cronyism in the press and indie scene along with the misuse of editorial power to manipulate the readership. I'll give you a very good example of why I am with #GamerGate

Everyone by now knows Zoe Quinn. I won't go into some of the more spurious rumors here, I'll just state facts:

Zoe Quinn approached various contacts in the media about wanting to start a game jam. These people were all people who knew her personally, or knew her friend Maya Felix Kramer. This game jam was not only reported by the press, but it was editorialized as something their readers should give money to.

Now, I want to remind people of a few facts:
1) Zoe Quinn is/was at that time a nobody. In fact, any notoriety she had was due to the same press contacts promoting her game jam.
2) She had never run a game jam or any other public event before.
3) It had no venue, no start date, no schedule, no board, no guests, no media packets, no assets at all.
4) The donations that people were asked to give went direct into her paypal account.

Now, I want to make something clear here. I do not think that Zoe Quinn was trying to defraud people. However, I find it very difficult to imagine that an unbiased press would have so widely promoted and editorialized a game jam under those circumstances. Certainly if any other developer of similar reknown had approached them who wasn't their buddy, then it would never have seen print, let alone using their editorial power to promote that their readership hand over their hard earned dollars.

This is just one example of many examples about what is editorial decision that I find troublesome since it appears to be influenced by nepotism. I could literally list off a dozen more incidents of similar suspicious nature, so while it's easy to dismiss 1 or 2 instances as perhaps poor judgement, it's hard to dismiss a dozen or more from the same group of people.

Certain people in the media are painting this as a left vs right fight, when really it's not. There are some people who are opposed to the editorializing around social justice in the press and it's general unbalanced view, but I'm not one of them. Most people are merely upset that they feel the press cannot be trusted, and then that feeling got blown up to a huge bonfire when the press's response to being called on the carpet was to basically call all gamers dead. I've said it before - if this was a kitchen fire, then Leigh Alexander and her friends tried to put it out with kerosene and now everyone is dragging through the mud.

I just want to add - I don't think that nepotism indicates "corruption" for financial gain. I think it just means in this case, bias, and people using contacts and friends to advance their careers. I think this is relatively normal in most businesses, the problem is that part of being in the press is that you need to have the trust of your readers and there just hasn't been enough transparency for many people, myself "super liberal" included.

So, please don't paint this as a left vs. right debate. There are going to be people on both sides who have a pure social agenda, but most of us really just want disclosure, an end to nepotism and more editorial restraint (No more incidents of Patricia Hernandez promoting her girlfriends game as if she's being objective for instance).

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

As far as The Escapist contributors go, I'll say this:

As a veteran of the US military, when Moviebob compares gamers to a bunch of radical religious terrorists and then agrees with the sentiment that said terrorists are morally better than gamers...yeah, that hits a nerve with me. It further unnerves me when I'm told that to criticize those remarks is to be dehumanized to the point where liquid feces has more moral standing than I do. As for calling for his resignation or firing? Such is not my decision to make. What is my decision to make, is to ignore his videos, ignore everything associated with him and to inform other people to do the same by presenting my point of view of Moviebob's attitude and associations rationally. I cannot take away the fact that he is a damn good movie critic, at times; he's earned that through his own merits, and I do not ever aim to take that away from him.

Jim Sterling, on the other hand, is a guy I've come to know as a usually intelligent and agreeable human being. His Jimquisition persona is rather enjoyable and the points and opinion he puts forth are ones that I can reason with, even if I do not agree with some of the things he argues. That's just our human nature, I suppose. The only thing that I have against the man is the indirect involvement he has in the whole Wizardchan debacle from before. Now, I know that Archon has specifically stated that an apology to them is forthcoming, and I'm glad that will be addressed, but I feel that Jim should be the one to apologize for that. I understand that he wishes to remain neutral through all of this, and part of me can resonate with that feeling, but now with the revelations that Indiecade and the IGF were probably one big racketeering scheme, I no longer wish to be neutral.

In short, I will let my actions do the future talking. I will continue to give Jim my relevance by giving him my views and clicks, while I will now ignore Moviebob until such a time comes where his position changes to a more amicable stance in my eyes, though I am well aware such a time my never come.

 

[Nanondorf]

It doesn't matter if MovieBob is hated or liked, as long as it's one or the other for the majority of this site's visitors. The guy brings in clicks, and clicks bring money. The only reason they would have to cut him loose would be if he fades
into irrelevancy or causes a major PR issue. Judging from the comments in various forums, I'd say the man will be holding on to this job a while longer.

 

[Billy the Squid]

Frankly, MovieBobs continued employment even before this all happened mystified me. If they're not looking to replace him with someone who isn't utter garbage by now then they probably never will.

Add to that Matt Lee, but given Tito's failure grasp reality and how to actually do his job (and before anyone says anything I'm going on Tito's reply detailing his failure to fact check anything and push an agenda if he thinks it's good, before okaying a story), which resulted in the Escapist being drawn into this debacle I'm not surprised either of them are still there. Frankly the way both Chipman and Lee acted, in any other industry they would have been fired for bringing the company's name into disrepute.

The fact that the Parent Company had to step in to sort this mess out speaks volumes, of what looks likes incompetence, has caused things to get out of control.

And while people say it brings in click, true, but you're not earning anything when they're ad-blocking you.

 

[Hades]

I don't think Bob should be fired but its not Demonization when he really IS being extremely unprofessional and petty on Twitter. Bob is a professional or at least semi professional in his work on the Escapist and when he willingly acts as irrational and unprofessional as possible then he deserves to be called out on it.

Moviebob has shown he can be better then this, why isn't he showing it now?

 

[thethird0611]

Except, your saying the side of the #burgersandfries IRC (A subset of 4chan no less, so even less people) are stupid.... except it seems that zoe may of been showing things out of context and making up some information. Except.... The #IRC spokesman showed professionalism and showed what the movement was really about, and actually showed that Zoe may of shown some chats out of context, or even worse, faked some.... so who is stupid now?

That is why we have neutrality. Neither side has a burden of proof. You don't want to be neutral here, you want to slander a side.

Bias can happen when you are right.... except you don't get to say you are right in this case, and bias can absolutely happen when you are wrong to. There is an actual discussion going on here, and your spreading what basically amounts to slanderous propaganda against a movement that is fighting for journalistic integrity.

I have to say, I am glad Greg Tito, who most likely sides with Zoe, wrote that article, and not you. Greg knows how to write a neutral article when there is no one 'right' side, you would just want to be like Polygon, Kotaku, and Rock/Paper/Shotgun.

Actually I wasn't referring to the harassment thing, which I think Tito did a fantastic job reporting.

I was talking about what sparked this whole fiasco, the ridiculousness over Quinn's ex and his rants and whatnot. The fact that people ever actually gave that the time of day when the facts were clearly against him, and it was no ones business anyway (and the facts were against him!) is ridiculous.

So I have trouble with the whole "We're just fighting for journalistic integrity!" shtick when this whole movement was started on lies and slander. Or is it libel? Print is libel so it's probably libel.

I mean really. If you truly believe in journalistic integrity, you'd either listen to the folks who are saying this movement is ridiculous, or (more likely) you never would have joined the movement to begin with.

Actually, the facts were 100% with Zoe's ex. He provided proof, timelines, and full information on almost everything he talked about. Not only that but we can see that Zoe was mentally abusive to him, and in her own terms, she 'raped him'.

Go actually ready the whole thing. It is quite interesting, and not a single thing has been denied by any of the parties, either.

 

[thethird0611]

Except, your saying the side of the #burgersandfries IRC (A subset of 4chan no less, so even less people) are stupid.... except it seems that zoe may of been showing things out of context and making up some information. Except.... The #IRC spokesman showed professionalism and showed what the movement was really about, and actually showed that Zoe may of shown some chats out of context, or even worse, faked some.... so who is stupid now?

That is why we have neutrality. Neither side has a burden of proof. You don't want to be neutral here, you want to slander a side.

Bias can happen when you are right.... except you don't get to say you are right in this case, and bias can absolutely happen when you are wrong to. There is an actual discussion going on here, and your spreading what basically amounts to slanderous propaganda against a movement that is fighting for journalistic integrity.

I have to say, I am glad Greg Tito, who most likely sides with Zoe, wrote that article, and not you. Greg knows how to write a neutral article when there is no one 'right' side, you would just want to be like Polygon, Kotaku, and Rock/Paper/Shotgun.

Actually I wasn't referring to the harassment thing, which I think Tito did a fantastic job reporting.

I was talking about what sparked this whole fiasco, the ridiculousness over Quinn's ex and his rants and whatnot. The fact that people ever actually gave that the time of day when the facts were clearly against him, and it was no ones business anyway (and the facts were against him!) is ridiculous.

So I have trouble with the whole "We're just fighting for journalistic integrity!" shtick when this whole movement was started on lies and slander. Or is it libel? Print is libel so it's probably libel.

I mean really. If you truly believe in journalistic integrity, you'd either listen to the folks who are saying this movement is ridiculous, or (more likely) you never would have joined the movement to begin with.

This.

I can respect and enjoy a journalist's opinions without having to agree with them 100% of the time. I can also watch a documentary that I don't personally agree with or see someone post something stupid online without wanting to make death threats against them IRL, or attempt to drive them out of their job.

I think this whole event has really brought to like the deeply nasty undercurrent that is still present in online communities.

I dont know why you 'This'ed her post. She once again spread lies.

You can enjoy an editorial if you want, but there is a difference between an opinion piece, and news. That is what #gamergate wants, unbiased news.

Not only did Zoe's ex have proof of everything he said, and funny enjoy, by Zoe's definition, she 'raped' him, but Zoe has been continuously lieing this whole time. Her Dox was fake, the Wizardchan harassment was fake, and its quite a reasonable thing to bet that the death threats she supposedly said happen, were fake. Just to piggy back on that to, Anita's look to also be fake.

I think this whole event has really brought to like the deeply nasty undercurrent that is still present in online journalist.

 

[Jack Action]

Her Dox was fake

While I agree with you, this particular thing has always bugged me. The general idea was that the doxx released the first time were fake (that is to say, they had absolutely nothing to do with her irl). While I wouldn't put it past her to release them herself, the fact that they're fake isn't proof of anything, except that she was smart enough to have fake doxx.

Which kinda falls into the 'basic internet security measures' category.

 

[thethird0611]

Her Dox was fake

While I agree with you, this particular thing has always bugged me. The general idea was that the doxx released the first time were fake (that is to say, they had absolutely nothing to do with her irl). While I wouldn't put it past her to release them herself, the fact that they're fake isn't proof of anything, except that she was smart enough to have fake doxx.

Which kinda falls into the 'basic internet security measures' category.

It is important to keep that fact in mind when other 'I am being Harassed' post come into play. Not only that, but you can pair it with the fake harassment from Wizardchan.

Its like the old story of the Boy who Cried Wolf.

 

[Arean]

While I find some of the things Bob has done during the course of this debacle to be deplorable, I'm firmly in the camp that voted No in a heartbeat.

I disagree with Bob on a lot of political things, but at the end of the day I think he's good at what he does. He said some harsh things, he has later apologized for them, and at most should maybe get a "slap on the wrist" so to speak. 0,02$.

 

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

When it comes to social issues, MovieBob is as intolerant as extreme "liberals" can get. His review of the Ender's Game and his hatred toward Orson Scott Card for his views on marriage was sickening to say the least.

 

[Jack Action]

It is important to keep that fact in mind when other 'I am being Harassed' post come into play. Not only that, but you can pair it with the fake harassment from Wizardchan.

Its like the old story of the Boy who Cried Wolf.

I'm not arguing that we should've taken her claims of being doxxed at face value or anything like that. Simply that the initial doxx not being related to her RL only proved (if anything) that she took basic precautions.

 

[themilo504]

Let me just start by stating one simple thing, demonization is bad, doesn?t matter what that person did, if you demonize anybody be it a annoying neighbor or Stalin you?re doing a bad thing.

So I?m against people demonizing moviebob, however I don?t have much sympathy considering how he blatantly demonized many people he disagrees with, in fact the constant demonization of gamer gate by journalists is one of the reasons I?m mostly on gamer gate's side.

And yes I?m sure that gamergate people have been demonizing game journalists, that?s also bad, but just like how moviebob doesn?t represent all game journalists those people don?t represent all of gamergate,

Also just because somebody demonizes you does not make it any more justified to then demonize that person, especially not if you?re a professional game journalist.

I just want this demonization to end so that we can actually have a proper debate, maybe I?m too idealistic but if that is the case then im glad to be too idealistic.

 

[themilo504]

This BS is still going on? Can we just stop giving them attention and talk about something else and see what happens?

You could just ignore it, it really isn?t all that hard.

 

[Something Amyss]

Ruin our hobby.

Well, yeah. Our hobby. Do you really want girls coming in and ruining it? They'll demand separate controllers, just like they demand separate rest rooms!

*looks at poster's name* Oh crap. Abort! Abort!

This is the weirdest part to me. I wonder what makes it theirs and who precisely they are. All I know for sure is it excludes women and feminists. It's also a little annoying that anyone can claim ownership of a medium.

 

[UberGott]

MovieBob has been waiting ages for something like this to happen. Something to "prove" his thesis that gamers are corrupt and toxic as a whole. Something that backs up his finger waving idealism, and makes all of his combined ranting about how we're all one big sexist, racist, xenophobic and petty hive-mind finally look legitimate beyond question.

For a minute, he thought he'd finally gotten it and ran with it, siding with everyone else who agreed with his basic leanings... even if it meant they were heartless dingleberries comparing gamers to terrorists murderers, and needlessly shaming the physically disabled, because it's okay to make fun of a fat white guy if I'm also a fat white guy, right? Just because it wasn't "-ist" (and I refuse to use the word "ableist", so make of that what you will) doesn't mean it was in good taste, and frankly, if Bob owes anyone an apology it's Boogie.

Trouble is, every day this struggle continues to exist is another day that undermines his argument that we were lashing out because... vaginas or something. Every time a new piece of evidence for corruption in the Indie scene is uncovered, him and people like him laughing at our tin foil hats have to eat crow over the "crazies" being right the whole time. Every time a PoC or a woman posts a selfie holding up a scrap of paper with #notyourshield on it, it proves that "gamers" aren't just the people that massive AAA marketers are targeting. It's proving that gaming, and by extension the concept of "nerd culture", has already crossed barriers and been welcoming, and that the handful of bigots and arseholes are just that - a handful of scrubs who don't represent anything but the fact that... well, people can suck sometimes.

I wonder if he scrambled for so long because he was scared. His whole position for the last two years or so has been "The community is toxic! We have to fix it!" GamerGate has proven to be no less mature or diverse as its opposition... where does that leave him as a commentator? If the community has fixed itself - or if it never needed fixing at all - what does he have to point out as a villain and further his own argument? And as others have pointed out, one or two quotes from anyone don't mean much. Bob's a feminist. He also called Megan Fox a blow-up doll. People say dumb sh*t sometimes, and all you can do is weigh the good with the bad.

I've said it before: Magneto was right. The problem is Bob doesn't realize that he's no longer a mutant.

Mind you, I don't think Bob should be fired. It's his job to have an opinion, and if anything, everyone being on the same page would only further the chances that The Escapist becomes a one-sided echo chamber. For all the disagreements I may have with him, he's smart and well spoken, and that's more than I can say for a lot of people with similar jobs concerning "nerd culture". When he talks about comics and B-movies, I still like listening to him. When he talks about games and shaming the players thereof... well, that's kind of why this thread exists, isn't it.

I'd rather Bob be the odd man out and say things I don't care to hear, that be out of a job just because I personally disagree with him. That said, I haven't read or watched anything on the site he's written since his "Rohan" piece, and short of him having something very interesting on this whole topic to say tomorrow, I think I'm done with him. There's enough commentators who don't assume I'm scum to keep me busy on the internet without trying too hard, after all.

The Escapist still gets my love, and I'll be around for a while yet. Don't muzzle MovieBob... just pay attention to how many people are still listening to him when all is said and done. If he's let go because his opinions are contrary to his own target audience, there's not much he can do save flee to the competition that's more in line with his own views.

 

[thewatergamer]

Frankly the hate on both sides is making me sick, Moviebob has lost my respect in this little debacle but I am not going to lump him in with extremist man-hating assholes, because that's not what he is, nor am I going to demand he be fired for making an article I take major offense with, the escapist staff have decided that is wasn't terrible, so that's their prerogative, their site, their judgement

As for Jim Sterling I have no fucking idea how these morons lumped him in, because as far as I am concerned he is one of the most intelligent and rational people in this industry, It also makes me sick how people are trying to drag politics into this by pointing fingers at "right-wing nut-jobs" or "left-wing hippies" when this really has nothing or little to do with that but I'm just going to try to avoid that swarm of hatred and venom...

Ugh, I've said my piece, not that it will likely do any good...