Demonization of Moviebob and other Escapist Staff

[burnout02urza]

Judging by firebobm's post, I'm assuming you made the thread about Bob getting fired, right?

If so... well, you were asking for someone to be fired because you didn't like them, basically. You don't see a problem with that?

I mean a reasonable response would be to not watch him and ignore him on twitter, or hell, try to get others to join a boycott, not trying to get him fired for disagreeing with us. You could (and did, iirc) say that his insults were unprofessional, but you can't honestly tell me Jim, Bob or Yahtzee are corporate professionals.

I don't see the issue, to be honest. I'm calling for accountability; my personal feelings in the matter are entirely besides the point. It's not a case of disagreeing with him, but the nature of his comments that are demeaning, insulting and actually quite hateful.

There's been a whole furor on how gamers are sexist, misogynist and so on. An accusation of bias is a genuinely serious thing, and it's been grounds for removal.

Shouldn't writers also be held to the same standard? That's the whole point of fairness. If it was a comment on how, say, the social justice movement is too sensitive about the portrayal of women in games - Or, how pushing for greater representation is corrosive - there would be an uproar.

Or are we not allowed to call out attacks? It should be a universal standard, applying evenly to both sides of the divide. At the very least, MovieBob's comments have been both offensive and hurtful - And there's been no sign of a retraction, or even an acknowledgement that he's made an error.

That, to my mind, doesn't speak well of him.

 

[Jack Action]

I don't see the issue, to be honest. I'm calling for accountability; my personal feelings in the matter are entirely besides the point. It's not a case of disagreeing with him, but the nature of his comments that are demeaning, insulting and actually quite hateful.

There's been a whole furor on how gamers are sexist, misogynist and so on. An accusation of bias is a genuinely serious thing, and it's been grounds for removal.

Shouldn't writers also be held to the same standard? That's the whole point of fairness.

I hate grey issues so much. I guess I'm trying to say that if his behavior bothers you, you shouldn't give him your views, maybe try to convince others to do the same. If he bothers enough people, he'll be held accountable by his superiors.

Kind of like what gamergate people are doing with advertisers on gaming websites.

Outright calling for him to be fired is a bit too close to censorship, imo.

Then again, I'll admit I've never watched Bob (nor do I particularly want to), and my point would only apply if he considers himself and is considered to be a journalist. I've always thought of the Escapists' video guys more as entertainers.

 

[Billy the Squid]

I don't see the issue, to be honest. I'm calling for accountability; my personal feelings in the matter are entirely besides the point. It's not a case of disagreeing with him, but the nature of his comments that are demeaning, insulting and actually quite hateful.

There's been a whole furor on how gamers are sexist, misogynist and so on. An accusation of bias is a genuinely serious thing, and it's been grounds for removal.

Shouldn't writers also be held to the same standard? That's the whole point of fairness.

I hate grey issues so much. I guess I'm trying to say that if his behavior bothers you, you shouldn't give him your views, maybe try to convince others to do the same. If he bothers enough people, he'll be held accountable by his superiors.

Kind of like what gamergate people are doing with advertisers on gaming websites.

Outright calling for him to be fired is a bit too close to censorship, imo.

Then again, I'll admit I've never watched Bob (nor do I particularly want to), and my point would only apply if he considers himself and is considered to be a journalist. I've always thought of the Escapists' video guys more as entertainers.

The issue becomes whenever the games media says "don't harass and insult people" we can just point to the likes of Chipman, Lee, Walker, Sessler Faraci and a dozen others and say "well you certainly didn't hold back, so why should we, get lost hypocrites"

They can't tell people they shouldn't do A,B,C without looking like complete hypocrites in the process, at which point the rest of the community throws this back in their face, and round and round we go.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Eh to be honest this is nothing new and people have done this to the Escapist staff and staff of plenty of other websites before. Although, seems to be a certain degree higher than usual shit slinging. Not saying this is a good thing or something people should be used to happening but as long as most people actually show a bit of support for their content creators every now and then I think all they'll be fine.

Also to be honest I think a lot of people do or should really take this attitude more.

 

[Xman490]

Moviebob seems to be the one bearing the brunt of it. There was even a thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.859921-Poll-Should-MovieBob-be-Fired-An-Open-Letter-to-the-Escapist] calling for him to be outright fired.

Can someone bring up a rational reason for that thread? I don't see Bob saying that everyone who plays games is bad in any particular way, only that not all journalists/critics see games the way the "average", "core" gamer does. Even if he does generalize gamers as the kind of people that get caught up in the hype trains of E3 and sees them lead to a marginal improvement to the average game (see: Watch Dogs, probably Destiny), that's not something to fire him over.

 

[Zontar]

Moviebob seems to be the one bearing the brunt of it. There was even a thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.859921-Poll-Should-MovieBob-be-Fired-An-Open-Letter-to-the-Escapist] calling for him to be outright fired.

Can someone bring up a rational reason for that thread? I don't see Bob saying that everyone who plays games is bad in any particular way, only that not all journalists/critics see games the way the "average", "core" gamer does. Even if he does generalize gamers as the kind of people that get caught up in the hype trains of E3 and sees them lead to a marginal improvement to the average game (see: Watch Dogs, probably Destiny), that's not something to fire him over.

Moviebob repeatedly outright insulted us as a community with baseless personally for no other reason then because he was and still is on the pro-corruption (for lack of a better term) side of this issue. Better men then him have been fired for less, and better men then they have lost their audiences for just as little.

Given how this industry operates, it is, quite frankly, genuinely shocking that he has managed to both find work within this industry and keep an audience even before all this happened. I know it sounds obvious, but it's only because of his ability to defy logic and hold his audience despite the massive drop in quality his videos took 3 years ago that he still gets work. I don't know how he does it with Big Picture and Escape to the Movies, but he manages to get enough popularity out of it that this is being overlooked in an industry where much, much less has ended careers.

Before this whole mess started it was an open question how he still had work in this industry, now it's head scratching. His continued employment is a blow to the Escapists, namely Tito's, recent changes to help restore the image this site has had damaged because of all this (though admittedly it isn't as bad as other sites, not by a long shot).

 

[Valagetti]

This BS is still going on? Can we just stop giving them attention and talk about something else and see what happens?

You could just ignore it, it really isn?t all that hard.

Thats beside the point and you can't. The other stupid gaming controversies I could, but this one is so blown up.

 

[ByzantineEmperorInExile]

I don't see the issue, to be honest. I'm calling for accountability; my personal feelings in the matter are entirely besides the point. It's not a case of disagreeing with him, but the nature of his comments that are demeaning, insulting and actually quite hateful.

C'mon man, it's one thing to believe the man should not have behaved the way he did, it's another thing to promote a headhunt for the guy specifically asking if people think he should be fired.

You have the right to state your discontent and the Escapist should listen to what you have to say, but none us (even if it's all of us) have the right to tell the people in charge here who they should keep in staff or not.

When you do such a thing you are no different than the people who promote boycotts or ask for developers to get axed because they said something controversial on social media.

 

[Drake the Dragonheart]

Sorry to go off topic here, but isn't the escapist owned and operated the Themis Media? Did Themis become Defy Media, did they sell the escapist to Defy, get absorbed by them?

I dont think moviebob should be fired, but I think someone high up in the Escapist should tell him to stay the hell away from twitter.

I think everyone in the game industry should stay the hell away from twitter. It seems to be downward spiral of idiocy inducing toxicity.

It starts with a limit of 140 characters, then it forces people to truncate their thoughts, then they think smaller, then oversimplify things, make sweeping generalizations. My theory anyways.

I think the entire human race should stay the hell away from twitter. Almost nothing good ever seems to come from twitter.

I remember an old Rockies commercial with Todd Helton and Dexter Fowler.
Dexter-just say the line-up change on twitter
Todd-what the heck is a twitter?
Dexter-you tell people what you are doing. Like right now, I'm chilling with Todd
Todd-you tell people your daily schedule? who cares what you're doing, you're basically still a rookie.
Dex gets a disappointed look on his face.

 

[serpentu]

Hi, uh, old lurker here.
Have been following gamergate since the zoepost, and have deleted my twitter a year ago in anticipation to this.

Regarding Bob: yes, he lost a viewer in me. yes, i disagree with him and i think he pulled a fish. but i do believe he learned from it, calmed down and does not deserve to have his job threatened. last thing we want is people fearful of displaying emotions on twitter.

Regarding Jim: he was caught in the cross fire and has been pretty much pulled into it, his only winning move was not to play and he did his best to stick to that, but having become the hostage of his own jimquisition persona - he was forced to eventually respond.
I don't think he's in the wrong here, remember - Jim is not your personal army.

Seeing how Escapist just responded with reasonable and responsible changes, i'd say the people who work here will need time, space and calm to take a breath and get back to the point where they can give us content with passion while following the new escapist rules.

Just my 2.5cents

editing to say: let's not become that which we fought against.
something about nietzsche, abyss, and staring.

 

[Archon]

In response to this and the general gamergate situation on the forums the escapist's general manager gave an utterly sarcastic response saying how "noble" an accomplishment it is that their behavior has forced not only the escapist, but every single site under the Defy Media umbrella to revise their forum rules and guidelines

If "forcing" a bunch of websites to review guidelines results in nice, neutral, and actually researched articles like this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137293-Exclusive-Zoe-Quinn-Posts-Chat-Logs-Debunking-GamerGate-4Chan-and-Quinn-Respond

then then I fail to see how its a bad thing.

And could you explain exactly how the GM's response was sarcastic ? Seriously, my online sarcastometer has been useless since all this started.

if he thinks Archons response was "utterly sarcastic" i suggest we put that to the man himself.

or go read his twitter and posts and see if you think he was being "utterly sarcastic".

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/posts/Archon

https://twitter.com/archon

as for myself i know who's posting history i trust more here "firebobm173"...

I choose my words carefully. I try to say exactly what i mean. If I miscommunicate, I post again to clarify. Let me clarify now.

Anyone who thinks that improving ethical standards is ignoble is someone with whom I have profound disagreements on morality. Do I wish this conversation had happened without the hatred, harassment, and abuse on all sides that has sadly characterized too much of our collective dialogue? Of course. I also wish that the debate on demilitarization of our police force had happened without the tragedy of Ferguson. But change rarely happens without rage.

Any honest student of the history of revolution will note that every set of revolutionaries is characterized by a violent, angry extremist wing and a moderate diplomatic wing. Indeed, this strategy is recommended in all of the revolutionary handbooks used by radical progressives and leftists world wide! Peaceful outcomes occur where the moderate diplomatic wing finds open minded members of the establishment who understand them and are willing to work with them to achieve positive change. Violent outcomes occur when the establishment treats the moderates as morally equivalent to the violent extremists, forcing them to join the extremists to get change. This is obvious to me, but apparently not to most.

Finally, on a personal note, I rarely use sarcasm in my rhetoric. I prefer ridiculously elaborate and extended analogy, metaphor, and allegory. So there.

 

[dragonswarrior]

Actually, the facts were 100% with Zoe's ex. He provided proof, timelines, and full information on almost everything he talked about. Not only that but we can see that Zoe was mentally abusive to him, and in her own terms, she 'raped him'.

Go actually ready the whole thing. It is quite interesting, and not a single thing has been denied by any of the parties, either.

What? My friend, the whole thing that started the "journalistic integrity in video games" was false. That Quinn slept with a developer and got a favorable review of a game. That's false.

Source: http://time.com/3274247/video-game-culture-war/

Everything else is not the internets personal business. If she actually did rape him and abuse him then she deserves to be locked up, but seeing as how it's actually impossible to prove that I don't think half the internet should be getting up in such arms about it. Especially seeing as how they don't generally do this for the FUCKING SHIT TONS OF MALE ON FEMALE RAPE THAT HAPPENS EVERY DAY.

Sorry. I get very angry about this. I don't waver in my point though. Yes, such a thing is terrible (understatement) and if true Quinn should be held accountable in the severest sense of that word. But it's hard for me to believe that this movement is truly so against rape when I don't see this kind of explosion happening every day for the rest of the horrors committed in this world.

*sighs* I just... I really have seen nothing to make me support Gamergate folks. And I've seen quite a bit to make me actively dismiss their cause and their proponents. Yes, of course I think higher standards of journalistic integrity in games would be nice, but I only really listen to Jim and Yahtzee on gaming itself so it's actually not that big of an issue to me. I also don't think that the corruption is there nearly as much as many think it is, and when this whole mess was started on a false accusation I really don't see myself changing my mind about that any time soon.

Even that mess about the indie devs manipulating that contest or whatever it was doesn't really spark my interest. I'm just like... "Yea, but you were completely wrong about Zoe Quinn, so how can I trust this?"

 

[firebobm173]

I choose my words carefully. I try to say exactly what i mean. If I miscommunicate, I post again to clarify. Let me clarify now.

Anyone who thinks that improving ethical standards is ignoble is someone with whom I have profound disagreements on morality. Do I wish this conversation had happened without the hatred, harassment, and abuse on all sides that has sadly characterized too much of our collective dialogue? Of course. I also wish that the debate on demilitarization of our police force had happened without the tragedy of Ferguson. But change rarely happens without rage.

Any honest student of the history of revolution will note that every set of revolutionaries is characterized by a violent, angry extremist wing and a moderate diplomatic wing. Indeed, this strategy is recommended in all of the revolutionary handbooks used by radical progressives and leftists world wide! Peaceful outcomes occur where the moderate diplomatic wing finds open minded members of the establishment who understand them and are willing to work with them to achieve positive change. Violent outcomes occur when the establishment treats the moderates as morally equivalent to the violent extremists, forcing them to join the extremists to get change. This is obvious to me, but apparently not to most.

Finally, on a personal note, I rarely use sarcasm in my rhetoric. I prefer ridiculously elaborate and extended analogy, metaphor, and allegory. So there.

Alright, first off there isn't a single person on earth who believes that improving ethical standards is ignoble. Also, although I wouldn't consider myself a history buff,I am aware that revolutions have both extremist and moderate elements in them and that not allowing concessions to a rebellion will inevitably lead to bloodshed. And I would also like to mention that not all rebellions are justified, and that using violence against them can be preferable to giving concessions, such as in the american civil war. As for what I said about the actions on the forum causing a policy change, I meant it to mean to show that I believed that their behavior was so out of line that it necessitated a revision of your forum rules, and considering that no one on the forums has been campaigning for a reformation of the forum rules I saw no reason to equate them with protesters fighting for better forum moderation. As for me saying that your comments were sarcastic, while I'm willing to believe that you were being sincere when you said it I still fail to see what has been so noble about anything in that thread.

 

[Billy the Squid]

Actually, the facts were 100% with Zoe's ex. He provided proof, timelines, and full information on almost everything he talked about. Not only that but we can see that Zoe was mentally abusive to him, and in her own terms, she 'raped him'.

Go actually ready the whole thing. It is quite interesting, and not a single thing has been denied by any of the parties, either.

What? My friend, the whole thing that started the "journalistic integrity in video games" was false. That Quinn slept with a developer and got a favorable review of a game. That's false.

Source: http://time.com/3274247/video-game-culture-war/

Everything else is not the internets personal business. If she actually did rape him and abuse him then she deserves to be locked up, but seeing as how it's actually impossible to prove that I don't think half the internet should be getting up in such arms about it. Especially seeing as how they don't generally do this for the FUCKING SHIT TONS OF MALE ON FEMALE RAPE THAT HAPPENS EVERY DAY.

Sorry. I get very angry about this. I don't waver in my point though. Yes, such a thing is terrible (understatement) and if true Quinn should be held accountable in the severest sense of that word. But it's hard for me to believe that this movement is truly so against rape when I don't see this kind of explosion happening every day for the rest of the horrors committed in this world.

*sighs* I just... I really have seen nothing to make me support Gamergate folks. And I've seen quite a bit to make me actively dismiss their cause and their proponents. Yes, of course I think higher standards of journalistic integrity in games would be nice, but I only really listen to Jim and Yahtzee on gaming itself so it's actually not that big of an issue to me. I also don't think that the corruption is there nearly as much as many think it is, and when this whole mess was started on a false accusation I really don't see myself changing my mind about that any time soon.

Even that mess about the indie devs manipulating that contest or whatever it was doesn't really spark my interest. I'm just like... "Yea, but you were completely wrong about Zoe Quinn, so how can I trust this?"

What, the article written by Leigh Alexander? Hahahaha oh wow, that woman is right up there with the Holocaust deniers, a complete an utter loon, not a single word that comes out of that woman's mouth isn't twisted, I think at this point she's lost her grip on reality and is just pulling facts out her arse.

That woman has produced nothing but utter click bait trash, my God if you want to claim.... actually I just read the rest of your post, don't bother. "Rape happens there for all points are invalid" Pfffffffffffffffffft.

We'll just ignore the positive press, the crashing of TFYC, the links with Maya Kramer and silver string media (the PR company which pushes advertisements for Sarkeesian of which she's also a consultant for)that entire spiderweb is a complete cluster fuck of entanglements. And what do you get to "she slept with someone for positive reviews"

Haven't you noticed that no one gives a crap about Quinn or that she slept with 5 guys, while eating burgers and fries, it's you people who keep bringing it up as an issue. The only reason she's even mentioned is because she's linked to that train wreck of nepotism; you can't bring up Watergate without bringing up Nixon's involvement, you're trying to white wash everything, just like Polygon, Kotaku and the rest of those corrupt sods.

Frankly if she didn't keep being an attention seeker she wouldn't get half the flak she got in the first place.

 

[maxben]

I always thought gamers were more, shall we say, liberal?

But as this 'gamegate' thing explodes...
Well, I'm wondering of some Tea Party/Golden Dawn/etc, have just been some kind of sleeper cells just WAITING to explode onto the scene.

It's...very sad and pathetic.

I think MovieBob once said that the nationalist right-wing pro-war productions have been dimishing in numbers from movies and TV in general, but increasing in the gaming side (FPS with american heroes). And no, this doesn't mean that gamers are being influenced by it. However it can mean that there has been more people who already had that mentality joining the gaming community because of it. Of course, it's just a theory...

its a theory that's bathed in American exceptionalism and mono culture view of the world.

i'm Scot and i'm "pro-gamergate". in US political terms i'd probably be considered a communist.
the leader of our "right wing" "conservative" party is a married lesbian...

gamers are predominately "liberal". those on the right tend to be "libertarians" who are "soft" on social issues.

As a Scot you know that as a consumer you are the exception not the rule, right? The largest single group consumers of America media are American. Regardless, reactionaries can be more reactionary (see: American) or less, but they have very similar impulses even if they have different points of views. Those impulses do bring them together constantly (see: The Islamist Thread) but they can also make them variable on issues. Hell, on immigration for example Europeans are far more reactionary than Americans are. As a Scot, your SNP is a nationalist reactionary party even though it is "left". And yet, their core issue would fit with Texan Nationalists. So being on the "left" of an arbitrary spectrum does not change one's basic positioning as reactionary.

Americans have a tendency to refer to all positions to the left of their spectrum as liberal, but their liberals also have reactionaries and supporters of the status quo. I think the real question is how many players are progressive, and I doubt that they are the majority.

oh nice try but don't try and fit your political science textbooks onto Scottish politics because it won't work.

i've spent 3 years mostly in R&P here and i know exactly where i am on "the political spectrum" by multiple measures and multiple dimensions.

if you don't know who "gamers" are (and most "gamers" do) then i can only assume you haven't hung around them very much. i have. i know gamers are generally "liberal" by US standards due collating 35 years of empirical evidence on the fact by freely associating with them.

they are "small l" "liberal" because they are normal, moderate people and because "reality has a well-known liberal bias".

but by all means go into R&P and ask them "what gamers are" politically...or y'know find one of multitudes of threads where everyone takes a test...

make your assertions "gamers are right wing" and see how the right wingers that are there will mock you for it.

the only people i have seen trying, ever, to label "gamers" as "far right" are people who don't know "gamers" trying to make their stubborn intransigence in relation to not wanting to have far left politics thrust upon them fit into their own pre existing and political narratives...

rather than the truth: which is that virtually no one turns to "gaming" for a politics lecture.

it's escapism ^ note the name of the site, pure and simple.

that doesn't mean people aren't interested in politics just not when they turn to "gaming". "gaming" basically follows the old adage "you don't talk about religion or politics with friends you intend to keep"...or thereabouts.

As I said, there are only two points of views, reactionary and progressive. You can be a lefty on any political spectrum but still be a reactionary on a particular issue. The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't matter where you are on the spectrum, and the majority of people are always going to be reactionary about what they like because they like it and therefore don't think it should change. So no, the majority can almost never be progressive on a hobby. And the "moderates" you refer to are merely people who want to keep the status quo which is by definition a small c conservative position, no? Normal moderates might not complain as much when things change, but they have no interest in progress.

On another note, no, I will not concede that escapism escapes social responsibility. That would be mad. I also think that anything you do is infused by your basic moral/ideological background (which includes politics). You can't escape it and you can't pretend that you can just turn that part of yourself off for certain things but not for others. You should at least be honest with yourself on that.

tl;dr
I specifically said that your position on a political spectrum does not matter in the least. Everyone has things they are reactionary about and things they are progressive about, and you can't add them all up and get an average in any legitimate way. And no, your form of escapism because you are human has moral significance.

 

[Guy_of_wonder]

I am sort of glad i have not followed "gamergate" all that much. This shit has really gotten out of hand. I like MovieBob and a lot of people on the Escapist. Demanding someone be fired for having an opinion, no matter how wrong or right, is just being an entitled whiny bigot.

 

[firebobm173]

What, the article written by Leigh Alexander? Hahahaha oh wow, that woman is right up there with the Holocaust deniers, a complete an utter loon, not a single word that comes out of that woman's mouth isn't twisted, I think at this point she's lost her grip on reality and is just pulling facts out her arse.

That woman has produced nothing but utter click bait trash, my God if you want to claim.... actually I just read the rest of your post, don't bother. "Rape happens there for all points are invalid" Pfffffffffffffffffft.

We'll just ignore the positive press, the crashing of TFYC, the links with Maya Kramer and silver string media (the PR company which pushes advertisements for Sarkeesian of which she's also a consultant for)that entire spiderweb is a complete cluster fuck of entanglements. And what do you get to "she slept with someone for positive reviews"

Haven't you noticed that no one gives a crap about Quinn or that she slept with 5 guys, while eating burgers and fries, it's you people who keep bringing it up as an issue. The only reason she's even mentioned is because she's linked to that train wreck of nepotism; you can't bring up Watergate without bringing up Nixon's involvement, you're trying to white wash everything, just like Polygon, Kotaku and the rest of those corrupt sods.

Frankly if she didn't keep being an attention seeker she wouldn't get half the flak she got in the first place.

Ok everyone before we continue this discussion I would like everyone to take a deep breath and read this [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html]. Now, if you have read it, you'll know that it discusses the ad hominem logical fallacy, which constitutes attacking the person making the argument instead of the argument itself. I've seen it used a great deal on these forums and I would like to see people criticizing the arguments of those who disagree with them rather than comparing them to holocaust deniers and saying that they are insane despite the fact that they are employed at prominent and respected web sites and are able to make coherent and reasonable arguments to support their opinions. As for Zoe Quinn, she's still saying that she's getting harassed and just said that one of her friends has been doxxed. I find it deeply unsettling that you assume that anyone would fake this kind of abuse, up to and including leaking nude photos of themselves and enduring constant harassment online and in her personal life, just for "attention". It's blatant victim blaming and is a completely baseless accusation. Also, while you claim that nobody cares about zoe quinn any more you can't deny that this whole thing started with a jilted ex's unproven and unprovable accusations.

 

[Archon]

I choose my words carefully. I try to say exactly what i mean. If I miscommunicate, I post again to clarify. Let me clarify now.

Anyone who thinks that improving ethical standards is ignoble is someone with whom I have profound disagreements on morality. Do I wish this conversation had happened without the hatred, harassment, and abuse on all sides that has sadly characterized too much of our collective dialogue? Of course. I also wish that the debate on demilitarization of our police force had happened without the tragedy of Ferguson. But change rarely happens without rage.

Any honest student of the history of revolution will note that every set of revolutionaries is characterized by a violent, angry extremist wing and a moderate diplomatic wing. Indeed, this strategy is recommended in all of the revolutionary handbooks used by radical progressives and leftists world wide! Peaceful outcomes occur where the moderate diplomatic wing finds open minded members of the establishment who understand them and are willing to work with them to achieve positive change. Violent outcomes occur when the establishment treats the moderates as morally equivalent to the violent extremists, forcing them to join the extremists to get change. This is obvious to me, but apparently not to most.

Finally, on a personal note, I rarely use sarcasm in my rhetoric. I prefer ridiculously elaborate and extended analogy, metaphor, and allegory. So there.

Alright, first off there isn't a single person on earth who believes that improving ethical standards is ignoble. Also, although I wouldn't consider myself a history buff,I am aware that revolutions have both extremist and moderate elements in them and that not allowing concessions to a rebellion will inevitably lead to bloodshed. And I would also like to mention that not all rebellions are justified, and that using violence against them can be preferable to giving concessions, such as in the american civil war. As for what I said about the actions on the forum causing a policy change, I meant it to mean to show that I believed that their behavior was so out of line that it necessitated a revision of your forum rules, and considering that no one on the forums has been campaigning for a reformation of the forum rules I saw no reason to equate them with protesters fighting for better forum moderation. As for me saying that your comments were sarcastic, while I'm willing to believe that you were being sincere when you said it I still fail to see what has been so noble about anything in that thread.

Ah, I see the source of our misunderstanding. GamerGate did not cause us to change our forum guidelines, it caused us to change our writer guidelines. In other words, it isn't that bad behavior by gamers has caused us to crack down. Rather, the demand by our gamer audience for better ethical guideline for US was heard and acted upon. And the action cascaded across other sites that our parent company owns.

 

[Billy the Squid]

I am sort of glad i have not followed "gamergate" all that much. This shit has really gotten out of hand. I like MovieBob and a lot of people on the Escapist. Demanding someone be fired for having an opinion, no matter how wrong or right, is just being an entitled whiny bigot.

Voicing an opinion does not entitle one to be a dick about it and not take flak for it. Chipman was, now he's whining about people not moving on, unsurprisingly he's made quite few people angry and he's got no one to blame but himself.

But okay, saying it's bigotry is right up there with "MISOGGYKNEE" and checking one's privilege at the desk, all being the best way to make a point without looking stupid.