Deus Ex:HR- What happened to my stealth?

[Dr Jones]

I agree 100%. Doing a stealth pacifist run with the boss battles is not easy. Eventually i was like "fuck this shit" and put it from the hardest to easiest difficulty.

I think its realistic though I get why people aren't happy about it.

EDIT: Also speaking of Deus Ex HR I really like the music in this game... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL1EyVJJOec

No. You may aswell be sneaking around the bosses, as the 1k other enemies you just lurked past.

 

[The Heik]

There are a lot of threads on this game... and heres another one.

Let me clarrifie the title. While playing Deus Ex something happened that particulary ticked me off.

I played the game with total stealth in mind. My motto was "If i'm shooting, I've failed somewhere." With this in mind I checked EVERY corner and noted the positions of EVERY guard. I never got ambushed.

Then I opened a door and a cutscene happened. My character walts into the center of the room, gets seen by everyone and then gets king hit from behind by a large meathead. Then a forced boss battle happened. I had to defeat him with a empty tranquiliser gun and a crossbow.

Did anyone else get a little annoyed at this?

Not particularly.

I was a tactical/stealth player myself and I generally stealthed/talked/hacked my way out of every situation. However, I know that specializing in just one methodology will inevitably put one at a disadvantage, so I held onto some extra ammo and usually had at least 3 frag and emp grenades apiece just in case the defecation hit the oscillation. That particular boss fight you speak of lasted me a total of 30 seconds as I EMP'd him then emptied a SMG clip into him three times.

He never even got a chance to shoot me.

 

[RelexCryo]

Nope. They have said for months now that this was how it would be, so I wasn't annoyed at all.

They also leave enough things around to kill the bosses regardless of what you have on you at the time.

So I'm expected to drop my tranquilisers and pick up a heavy machine gun of which I have never used before?

I am more irritated about the side missions and hacking. You can generally stealth without putting points in stealth, just by being careful and using the right weapons. You can win battles without putting any praxis points in combat by upgrading your weapons thoroughly, and making proper use of cover, retreat, and killzones.

But hacking? Without the Gamestop pre-order, the ONLY way to hack things is to invest a huge amount of praxis points in them. And several side-missions, such as Malik's mission Shanghai Justice, require hacking. There is no other way to truly complete them. This means that while you can complete any primary mission with any augmentation setup, because even if boss battles make it harder, they don't make combat augs necessary, you can only complete some side missions by dumping a huge amount of praxis points into hacking, or using the Gamestop pre-order.

And killing Lee is not another way of winning, it is a failure. You do not get a Praxis Kit that way. There should be at least one other way of successfully completing this mission.

 

[Greatjusticeman]

Eh, I went pretty much stealth throughout the whole game and didn't have much problem with any of the bosses.

Just always make sure to carry around one or two lethal weapons with plenty of ammo so you can duck and cover a lot while shooting them down. The only boss I had trouble with was the third one and that cause I got my -SPOILERS- chip replaced at the LIMB clinic so I was screwed for awhile until I had him jumping back and forth on the wall and the middle and ended up bringing him down with small amounts-

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Nope. They have said for months now that this was how it would be, so I wasn't annoyed at all.

They also leave enough things around to kill the bosses regardless of what you have on you at the time.

So I'm expected to drop my tranquilisers and pick up a heavy machine gun of which I have never used before?

Pro Tip: There are no weapon-enhancing Augs outside of recoil reduction. That Heavy Machine gun is just as effective as a hacker build as it is with a stealth build as it is with a combat build. Sure it isn't upgraded, but that's your fault for not keeping an emergency lethal weapon on-hand that's been upped with the mods you find laying around.

 

[Siris]

Nope. They have said for months now that this was how it would be, so I wasn't annoyed at all.

They also leave enough things around to kill the bosses regardless of what you have on you at the time.

So I'm expected to drop my tranquilisers and pick up a heavy machine gun of which I have never used before?

"Yuppers! U MAD?"
-Eidos

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

They should have let you stealth out of those encounters, or offered stealthy/social alternatives to killing them (like hunting down "kill codes" in the first game).

It's annoying, though be no means game breaking. Would have been nice to see them try harder to be inclusive on that end.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

They should have had kill switches that would've been really hard to find, I would've thought that would be a lot cooler. Even though that might've messed up the plot a bit.

Spoiler

One of the plot lines is the development of kill-switches for Augs... so as you said, it would have messed up the plot by breaking the plot continuity

@OP:
Each boss fight in the game can be defeated without any combat investment. There are enough weapons and ammo in each "arena", for you to load up and gut them. Not to mention, the Tranq rifle, Peps gun and Stun gun can be used to "defeat" them too (though the following cinematic depicts an entirely different type of approach)

It is a bit of a let down in that they are heavily scripted and uninspired, but it's a total of 20 mins of game time lost to it

Spoiler

5 per boss fight

... not exactly a game breaker, and fits with the characters emotional investment to the plot.

To everyone else:

****************** BIG SPOILERS FROM HERE ON*******************

It's no different to Deus Ex... apart from oversights that could allow you to avoid the final possible confrontations with Gunther and that FEMA guy (forgot his name) you still had to confront and kill Navarre to get out of unatco, and Bob if you chose the Illuminati ending and everyone at the Area 51 base if you chose Tongs ending. Also, the Tanker mission... you BLOW IT UP... people obviously die.

This isn't Elder Scrolls people. Your character is already semi-defined (ex-swat, inquisitive and emotionally linked to the events that start the game) and the plot takes you down paths that result in murder regardless of your intentions, you just make judgement calls when you can.

 

[castlewise]

The boss battles aren't as bad as people say. I think mostly people are complaining because they are hard. The freedom of Deus Ex means that grass is always greener, but I have news: your dermal plating is not going to save you from Machine Gun Man. He sucks no matter what you put points into. What's more, the boss battles are actually pretty deep. Admittedly, its deep in a teeth grinding, frusttrating, die a dozen times sort of way, but still deep. Search these very forums and you will find half a dozen ways to kill each boss. "Throw exploding barrels at them". "Electrocute them with coolant". "Use the Typhoon system". Etc....

The only complaint I really agree with is that you can't really play as a pacifist when you are cutscened into stabbing someone in the head.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

In my first playthrough I did a stealth, shoot when I f up thing. When I got to that boss, the first few deaths I just hid in the weapon room and shot from behind cover, lets just say that didn't turn out well. After a few(twenty) deaths, I realized I could just throw the gas canisters at him. Its not really much of a problem, you just have to be clever and not do stupid shizzle like what I did

(also, I've just started my pacifist play-through and i'm wondering

Spoiler

When youre in that hangar with the two massive robots, does it count as killing if I dont use the EMP grenade at them and just shoot them to bits, thats the same for all the other robots. Does the tranq gun and the rifle work against them too?

)

 

[castlewise]

No, you're not the only one.

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/9/2

Actually, reading the comments to this comic convinced me that the boss fights are really quite deep, all offer multiple "solutions," and are challenging for everyone irregardless of build. Go figure.

 

[castlewise]

Nope. They have said for months now that this was how it would be, so I wasn't annoyed at all.

They also leave enough things around to kill the bosses regardless of what you have on you at the time.

So I'm expected to drop my tranquilisers and pick up a heavy machine gun of which I have never used before?

I am more irritated about the side missions and hacking. You can generally stealth without putting points in stealth, just by being careful and using the right weapons. You can win battles without putting any praxis points in combat by upgrading your weapons thoroughly, and making proper use of cover, retreat, and killzones.

But hacking? Without the Gamestop pre-order, the ONLY way to hack things is to invest a huge amount of praxis points in them. And several side-missions, such as Malik's mission Shanghai Justice, require hacking. There is no other way to truly complete them. This means that while you can complete any primary mission with any augmentation setup, because even if boss battles make it harder, they don't make combat augs necessary, you can only complete some side missions by dumping a huge amount of praxis points into hacking, or using the Gamestop pre-order.

And killing Lee is not another way of winning, it is a failure. You do not get a Praxis Kit that way. There should be at least one other way of successfully completing this mission.

I didn't think about it but this is really true. I play PC, put 2 or 3 points in the "hacking levels", and then just use quickload until I get through the harder forced hacking bits. But if reloading is a pain, or if you don't have enough spare software, I could see how some of the side missions could be really frustrating.

 

[mikeysnakes]

Spoiler

****************** BIG SPOILERS FROM HERE ON*******************

It's no different to Deus Ex... apart from oversights that could allow you to avoid the final possible confrontations with Gunther and that FEMA guy (forgot his name) you still had to confront and kill Navarre to get out of unatco, and Bob if you chose the Illuminati ending and everyone at the Area 51 base if you chose Tongs ending. Also, the Tanker mission... you BLOW IT UP... people obviously die.

This isn't Elder Scrolls people. Your character is already semi-defined (ex-swat, inquisitive and emotionally linked to the events that start the game) and the plot takes you down paths that result in murder regardless of your intentions, you just make judgement calls when you can.

Well there wasn't such a big deal made for killing past the halfway mark of the original. There were only two boss fights that were like the annoying three in Human Revolution. Both had an alternate way or two out.

Spoiler

I don't know if Anne Navarre is much of a boss, because I always always killed her to save Lebedev.

I think the main complaint is that, even in the original ones they were a little unfair, especially the one in the Ocean Complex (if you were gonna fight it out). But instead of making it a little more fair, and fit in to the normal gameplay more, they made it less fair.

I don't see why developers are afraid to put stealth into boss fights, I can't imagine it being too easy, because any time I've seen it implemented well it's been fucking hectic and challenging.

 

[LogicNProportion]

Nope. They have said for months now that this was how it would be, so I wasn't annoyed at all.

They also leave enough things around to kill the bosses regardless of what you have on you at the time.

So I'm expected to drop my tranquilisers and pick up a heavy machine gun of which I have never used before?

...Or the explosive barrels.


I mean seriously, even in the original Deus Ex you needed SOME form of combat ability, no matter how small, because despite how well you could control the environment, there was always one or two fights they shoved down your throat. I mean, think how hard it was to run away from Gunther in 1.

Also, Penny Arcade is right on so many levels. But that's a good thing. The game shouldn't cater to your choices. Just because you're free to make choices (Oh my god it's real life!) doesn't mean they will always end up as good choices in the end. You'll excel in some things, and suck in others. A game, no matter what genre, is a series of problems you have to solve based on your own creativity, and what you have available to you in-game at the time. It only makes sense that some problems will be harder than others, ESPECIALLY in a game like Deus Ex.

/rant

 

[mikeysnakes]

I mean seriously, even in the original Deus Ex you needed SOME form of combat ability, no matter how small, because despite how well you could control the environment, there was always one or two fights they shoved down your throat. I mean, think how hard it was to run away from Gunther in 1.

Well it was actually quite easy to run away from Gunther after his head exploded ~_^

But it also would have been more fun if you were allowed to explore other options, such as sneaking away, which could've been hectic on it's own, or hacking something(s).