Diablo 3 no offline reasoning summarized by Penny Arcade

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Joseph Alexander

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Jul 22, 2011
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I'm still betting that blizzard will comeout at blizzcon with:
"due to the overwhelming requests for an offline mode in D3 we will be making so that you can copy an online character into an offline only mode"
yes I'm thinking this is all a ploy to manipulate people into thinking that blizz listens to their customers, like they actually would of forced people to use their real names on their forums.
 

Treblaine

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jakko12345 said:
when they said it wasn't solely about piracy, I called bullshit. But now I see, they are just greedy bastards. In retrospect, actually, I should have seen that.
In a sense it is if you think about the very term: "piracy"

It's such a blatant hyperbole, the use the same name as for those raping murderous bandits who terrorise the seas as for those who violate terms of distribution?

This is megalomanical corporations throwing a hissy fit when they lose control, that they aren't getting a constant stream of money, it is an affront to them that they are not milking every last drop of money out of people.

It is no affront to them that they are not being "stolen from" it is that they don't get to your money that they feel entitled to.

The industry is full of publishers who punish the disloyal. Like withholding content unless you pre-order a game BEFORE the reviews come out, thereby removing all critical though from your decision to buy: pure brand loyalty. And all these other punishments for attempting to buy the game used rather than new, this is the work of a company that cares more.

If they thought they could get away with it I'm sure they'd call their customers pirates if they dared to buy from the competitor.

Blizzard have gotten too big for their boots and as a result they'll suffer for it: Torchlight 2 now has much more of a chance because they respect their customers rather than acting with a sense of entitlement as Blizzard does.
 

olicon

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Let me ask again--didn't they say SC2 is always online?
Did it not have an offline mode?
I'm pretty sure it's the same as D3.
 

Jaime_Wolf

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CriticKitten said:
SteelStallion said:
Jesus Christ, video games aren't a fan service.
At the risk of being called on a strawman (which it's not, but go right ahead)....if video games don't exist for their fans, then what purpose do they serve exactly?

What you've literally just said is "a product doesn't exist because its customers want it, it exists to make money!" in no uncertain terms. I actually have to ask if you're entirely serious or not, because that may be the most hilarious thing ever typed.

You don't simply make money by making a product. You make money by finding an audience to sell that product to. Products make money by appealing to their customers' needs. In that sense, video games are ENTIRELY a fan service in that they would not sell if they were not designed to fulfill some gamer's needs.
Businesses make money by pleasing customers. But there's significantly more to it than that. There are very certainly situations where pleasing customers is a bad business decision. You can't ignore that there's generally a cost involved in pleasing customers. If the cost exceeds the money generated by that particular bit of fan service, it is not a good business decision. Even if the feature in question costs less than the expected revenue it generates, it's still a bad decision if that cost could have gone into some other area that would improve revenue more.

So yes, video games are a fan service, but no, that doesn't mean that any feature that pleases customers is a good business decision. I think that was more what he was trying to suggest.

(Your other quote response is a lot more sensible though. It sucks when you end up outside the target demographic of a sequel to something you like, but it's hard to hold that against them when they just changed their target demographic, seemingly pretty rationally.)
 

crop52

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Damn, I wonder how blizzard's gonna feel when they hear penny arcade's been talking trash about them.
 

Simeon Ivanov

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Am I the only one who doesn't understand a word of what Tycho said? I only know english from games and books and TV, but still!!

OT: I don't care anymore. It's gonna get cracked, regardless of what anti-piracy McGuffin they use. No one I know buys games, so I don't have a lot of reason to buy it anyway. Hell, I'll still buy it, because it's Diablo, and I love Diablo 2 with all my heart ... I'll just download a pirated offline version first, to see if it's worth the full price. Hey, don't judge me! It's my money, and I can spend it however I see fit! If Blizzard wanted my wallet, they would've released a demo by now! Or the game! Or returned the Paladin! Or included an offline mode! Or showed that it cared about it's audience! ... I need a hug
 

Mr Pantomime

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rembrandtqeinstein said:
By their own admission, Diablo isn?t not really focused around a PVP experience; if you?re playing with someone who has duped items or whatever, all it means is that you will be more likely to defeat Satan. Without a means to gain advantage over another, ?cheating? as a concept becomes substantially more opaque. Who is the cheated party, precisely? Satan the Devil? Fuck him, who cares.

Who is being cheated? This is the part of the movie where, in a series of retrospective realizations cut with you looking at your own face in the rearview mirror, you come bit by bit to the heart of it. The person you are cheating is Blizzard, Blizzard in the aggregate, with your attempts to interfere with their digital marketplace. You mustn?t play offline or goof around with your files or any other naughty business because they are endeavoring to transform your putative ownership into a revenue stream.

There, now don?t you feel better?
And there it is. Blizzard didn't include offline mode because they can't sell you shit if you do that.

D3 no, Torchlight 2 yes
Thats a double negative. Im calling this out

Which means that they are focused on PVP after all.
 

Ganath

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Did people not see this one coming after Starcraft 2? Although I'm fine with this. Even if I have a knack for randomly disconnecting, or had rather, it never stopped me from playing games I liked. It was frustrating, yeah. But I got over it. I might actually get Diablo 3, but it's been ages since I played the second game.

The only reason is that I trust Blizzard to make a damn fine game in the end. They didn't disappoint me with Cataclysm and they didn't disappoint me with Starcraft 2 either, I have little reason to believe Diablo 3 will be any different. I guess in the end, I just don't get why people randomly state that they won't buy the product because of something like this. Note that I said -state- I fully get the reason itself. Shitty internet sucks, after all, I just don't see the reason to mention the fact you're not buying it over and over.. and over.. Yeah you get it. It's kinda silly, in my opinion. Not to mention that I believe most of Blizzard's audience is used to stuff like this by now, I know I am, at least.
 

Jaime_Wolf

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CriticKitten said:
Jaime_Wolf said:
Businesses make money by pleasing customers. But there's significantly more to it than that. There are very certainly situations where pleasing customers is a bad business decision. You can't ignore that there's generally a cost involved in pleasing customers. If the cost exceeds the money generated by that particular bit of fan service, it is not a good business decision. Even if the feature in question costs less than the expected revenue it generates, it's still a bad decision if that cost could have gone into some other area that would improve revenue more.

So yes, video games are a fan service, but no, that doesn't mean that any feature that pleases customers is a good business decision. I think that was more what he was trying to suggest.
That's certainly fair. There are also times in which it's patently a bad idea to listen to what the customer suggests if only because their suggestion is a terrible one. So on that much, I'll certainly agree.

It's more the notion that video games are not intended to serve their fans that makes me crack up with laughter. Video games are quite unique in that the relative "cost" associated with making them is not nearly as bound by physical means (like purchasing the materials to build a bike or what-have-you). As such, they can typically get away with providing a lot more content for the purpose of pleasing their gaming customers. It's these games that seem disinterested in providing things which their customers clearly are asking for....these are the sorts of questionable decisions that make you wonder what was running through their heads.

What does having an offline single-player cost Diablo 3 exactly? Nothing, really. It's mostly a mix of anti-piracy attempts combined with their attempt to "gently push" the Diablo franchise towards a style of play that resembles MMOs, which in turn allows them to utilize that system for their own financial gain. This is made evident in their "encouragement" of players to try playing the game in multi-player, made prior to this announcement of always-on DRM. It also shows clearly now that the details of the auction house have leaked.

So it's not really a question of cost here, because making the game offline really doesn't cost them much at all and, indeed, probably would boost overall sales even higher than they're going to be. It's a question of "how can we better regulate our own income". Ergo why people are bothered by it.
Very, very few products have substantial material costs compared to design and production costs. Video games are not nearly so unique as people assume - the cost of virtually everything in modern society is primarily a function of labour involved in producing it. The burrito you ate for lunch probably cost a few cents max in materials. The cost is in leasing the space, paying the employees, etc.

Making an offline single-player mode in Diablo 3 means programming in that option, figuring out what features that means the mode will and will not include, testing that option, etc. There is no box they can just check to add in an offline mode, especially if all of their design have already assumed always-online. All of these things cost money, often a lot of money. And this is money that could be spent on other parts of the game, which they clearly feel are a better investment. If they thought it would result in higher sales commensurate to the cost (and opportunity cost), they would be adding it in. They're not just malicious and they're not stupid.

Also, regarding control for their own financial gain, once again the auction house is for OTHER PLAYERS to list items for sale. And it's only in-game items. This is not a typical microtransaction store. The intent is solely to provide a legitimate replacement for the widespread item auctioning via ebay and such that has plagued previous games. The result of the auction house is that people can auction and buy items like they already were, but purchasers can't be scammed, the items will be in a single index and more easily comparable, and rather than a completely unrelated auction site (ebay for instance) taking a small cut of the profit for allowing you to make money from their service, Blizzard takes a small cut of the profit for allowing you to make money from their service.

But hacked items essentially ruin that system, making the auction house largely pointless. This wasn't as big a problem before because there wasn't a single convenient index, so it wasn't necessarily the case that hacked items would end up dominating the index because when you sorted by any given statistic, there might not be too many hacked items as compared to legitimate items. Also, buying hacked items can also lead to being effectively scammed - what if they change the game in such a way that the hacked items no longer work? They're unlikely to make changes that would render normal items unusable, but they have no such obligation toward hacked items (nor any real way to prevent this happening accidentally). It would be incredibly unethical for them to allow you to buy an item from someone that might not work in the future, so they need some form of protection against hacked items.

So they're taking the cut that ebay would normally get and offering you convenience and security in your purchases. In order to do this, they need to exercise some control over characters that could potentially put things into the auction house. As to why there isn't also an offline mode, I imagine they've found that it's not worth the time and money (it costing significantly more than people assume) to add one in.
 

Odbarc

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rembrandtqeinstein said:
By their own admission, Diablo isn?t not really focused around a PVP experience; if you?re playing with someone who has duped items or whatever, all it means is that you will be more likely to defeat Satan. Without a means to gain advantage over another, ?cheating? as a concept becomes substantially more opaque. Who is the cheated party, precisely? Satan the Devil? Fuck him, who cares.

Who is being cheated? This is the part of the movie where, in a series of retrospective realizations cut with you looking at your own face in the rearview mirror, you come bit by bit to the heart of it. The person you are cheating is Blizzard, Blizzard in the aggregate, with your attempts to interfere with their digital marketplace. You mustn?t play offline or goof around with your files or any other naughty business because they are endeavoring to transform your putative ownership into a revenue stream.

There, now don?t you feel better?
And there it is. Blizzard didn't include offline mode because they can't sell you shit if you do that.

D3 no, Torchlight 2 yes
Better thoughts; When you quit, you can turn all your crap into money and pay off for the game you've owned for (days, weeks, months, years, decade). It's basically FREE and fun.
 

Vhite

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GreatTeacherCAW said:
Vhite said:
GreatTeacherCAW said:
rembrandtqeinstein said:
D3 no, Torchlight 2 yes
Or... OR... D3: probably, Torchlight 2: No, Sacred 3: Most definitely
Sacred 3?! You just made my day.
I guess it is being made by a different company, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_3
http://www.sacred3.org/

But... yessssss. Sacred 3.
That might actually be a good thing. Sacred 2 wasn't even playable without patches and with them it was almost impossible to install. However when I did, it was awesome.
 

Dr.Sean

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Apr 5, 2009
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They do whatever they want to do with a property they own! Got a problem with that? Inform the government! Tell them they don't own the rights to their property so they can redistribute Diablo 3 to the people!


itt communists
 

Jaime_Wolf

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Dexter111 said:
I think the general idea is that there's no real way to stop the people farming and selling these things, so we may as well improve that system as much as possible. I see no problem with this.

And an always-online system makes it significantly easier to detect and control the distribution and creation of hacked and/or duped items. You mention WoW's problems in this realm, but look at how incredibly better off MMOs are than, say, Diablo 2. As you seem to assume (has this been confirmed? I don't follow the development particularly closely), I wouldn't be surprised if D3 is architecturally similar to an MMO - the game files contain mostly art assets and the like with just about all mechanical computation taking place on servers. In which case, an offline mode wouldn't be hard, it would be impossible. The fact that an earlier iteration wasn't built around such an architecture doesn't really mean that it would be remotely easy to adjust the current iteration to include a single-player option.

I think the primary problem people are having is adjusting to the fact that D3 is intended to be, in a few key ways, a large divergence from the previous games. If this were just Dungeonseeker: The Hell Invasion instead of Diablo 3, it's relatively unlikely that people would be complaining. It's not that what they're doing is inherently bad (though I'm sure people will argue), it's that it's "NOT MY DIABLO". The system they've developed is mostly bad because it isn't a prettier updated Diablo 2.

This may be taking things a bit far afield, but the logic that they're condoning or legitimising behaviour that they can't possibly hope to stop by trying to mitigate some of the damage smacks of the same sort of logic that leads to abstinence-only education.