Did anyone else just watch the Dr Who finale?
- Thread starter Sillyrian
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Boo!
Ok, not as rubbish as previous season finales, but that's because the bar has been set terribly low.
Give up writing Moffatt, you're consistently embarrassingly bad.
Crap attempts to tug on heartstrings, making the Doctor president of the world for the hell of it, people jsut turn into Cybermen, UNIT have become rubbish mooks that don't bother trying to fight the monsters. Boo!
Ok, not as rubbish as previous season finales, but that's because the bar has been set terribly low.
Give up writing Moffatt, you're consistently embarrassingly bad.
Crap attempts to tug on heartstrings, making the Doctor president of the world for the hell of it, people jsut turn into Cybermen, UNIT have become rubbish mooks that don't bother trying to fight the monsters. Boo!
I stopped watching after "Kill The Moon" to be honest, I was tempted back when I heard that the finale was the Master and Cybermen but in the end I still couldn't be bothered and from the sounds of it, I'm glad I missed it.
I will probably watch the Christmas special because it'll be funny to see Capaldi shout his way through what is supposed to be a feel good seasonal episode. But until they replace Capaldi and/or the writers I doubt I'll watch the next series.
I will probably watch the Christmas special because it'll be funny to see Capaldi shout his way through what is supposed to be a feel good seasonal episode. But until they replace Capaldi and/or the writers I doubt I'll watch the next series.
Yeah, it was a bit of a mess. I have to admit though watching Missy kill people put a big smile on my face. The acting was pretty good and helped hold up the bad plot.
It could have been an amazing episode though, but the power of love saves the day again for no logical reason. Why was Danny put in his body if he still had his emotions?
It could have been an amazing episode though, but the power of love saves the day again for no logical reason. Why was Danny put in his body if he still had his emotions?
Eh, I've seen worse Doctor Who finales. This may sound qualified, but I think it was the best new series season finale with the Master as the principle villain.
I found the scene of Missy giving the Doctor control over the Cybermen to be quite powerful. The way she said she did it all because "I want my friend back" was oddly poignant as well. The Doctor's speech was also pretty good. It's nice that it tied up at least some of the season's big ideas.
Also, Howard the Duck is no longer the most bizarre after-credits cameo I've seen now.
I found the scene of Missy giving the Doctor control over the Cybermen to be quite powerful. The way she said she did it all because "I want my friend back" was oddly poignant as well. The Doctor's speech was also pretty good. It's nice that it tied up at least some of the season's big ideas.
Also, Howard the Duck is no longer the most bizarre after-credits cameo I've seen now.
Well I thought both The Doctor pressed the button on the device at the same as Brigadier Stewart fired. If this is what happened then The Doctor sent her back to wherever she came from (supposedly Gallifray) meaning that she might not have got the full force of the shot from the Brigadier, some of it being absorbed by distortion from teleportation (just a thought).
The biggest problem this series, imo, has been Danny Pink. He's got to be one of the most insufferable characters ever to appear on Doctor Who. His character was pointless and the romance plot with Clara completely unnecessary. I was actually glad that they killed him last week only to find we'd still not got rid of him. If they hadn't included him then perhaps there would've been less focus on Clara and more on The Doctor. There was potential for a perfect partnership here as Capaldi and Coleman's chemistry together was great but it was ruined by focusing on her boring private life and having her nagging/ criticising The Doctor but then doing equally questionable things herself.
The twist in having Missy be The Master though was brilliant however I still don't agree with this notion that regeneration can change gender. To me if they're born male then there regenerations will all be male and the same for a female Time Lord. Exceptions can be made on The Master's part as he's known for finding many devious ways to return, for example turning into some snake like creature from Skaro to maintain himself after being exterminated by The Daleks then taking possession of a human host (the only reason he was able to turn into the creature was due his self-alterations to extend his lifespan); preserving his life essence in the ring he wore as Harold Saxon. The Master is quite the enigma having been seemingly killed with no chance of returning many times but somehow always finds a way. Perhaps the simplest of these ways, prior to becoming Prof. Yana/Harold Saxon, being resurrected by the Time Lords to fight in The Time War.
The biggest problem this series, imo, has been Danny Pink. He's got to be one of the most insufferable characters ever to appear on Doctor Who. His character was pointless and the romance plot with Clara completely unnecessary. I was actually glad that they killed him last week only to find we'd still not got rid of him. If they hadn't included him then perhaps there would've been less focus on Clara and more on The Doctor. There was potential for a perfect partnership here as Capaldi and Coleman's chemistry together was great but it was ruined by focusing on her boring private life and having her nagging/ criticising The Doctor but then doing equally questionable things herself.
The twist in having Missy be The Master though was brilliant however I still don't agree with this notion that regeneration can change gender. To me if they're born male then there regenerations will all be male and the same for a female Time Lord. Exceptions can be made on The Master's part as he's known for finding many devious ways to return, for example turning into some snake like creature from Skaro to maintain himself after being exterminated by The Daleks then taking possession of a human host (the only reason he was able to turn into the creature was due his self-alterations to extend his lifespan); preserving his life essence in the ring he wore as Harold Saxon. The Master is quite the enigma having been seemingly killed with no chance of returning many times but somehow always finds a way. Perhaps the simplest of these ways, prior to becoming Prof. Yana/Harold Saxon, being resurrected by the Time Lords to fight in The Time War.
Well Missy made it for me. She was awesome, but I may be biased as the Master is my favorite Dr Who villein. As the for episode over all though, I've seen worse. Danny and Clara were a bit much though, and the Christmas episode? *raises eyebrow* Hmm :O/
It's like Moffat is a wide-eyed, naive, 18 year old writer that's just starting out. "Ohh, I have an idea! Let's have the cybermen and the master working together! But that's not all, the master is a woman now! Everyone kept speculating about female doctors for a while right? Let's throw it in! Oh and the master is dead, so they'll be in the afterlife! Yes, the master has taken over heaven!" "Mister Moffat...how do you explain any of that?" "Uuh...didn't think about that...space magic?" "And how will the episode actually end?" "Well, I watched a lot of anime and don't understand the concept of overused and silly cliché, so...the power of love! Yes! That'll do it!" "But that means Clara and Danny will have the spotlight again...this show IS called Doctor Who, sir." "Who cares about the Doctor? We've had plenty of seasons of him already! And how can they relate to an alien? Surely they want a human and her everyday problems to have the main role! Who would people want to see the character the show was named after? He's boring!"
At least, that's how I imagine him explaining the plot of this episode after having seen the last few episodes... I mean, seriously. Doesn't Moffat have any clue about how to write a mature story with a half-decent and coherent plot, focused on the actual main character of the show? I really don't get all the cliché's and just plain cartoon-like plot devices. (The power of love...I mean, come on already.)
At least, that's how I imagine him explaining the plot of this episode after having seen the last few episodes... I mean, seriously. Doesn't Moffat have any clue about how to write a mature story with a half-decent and coherent plot, focused on the actual main character of the show? I really don't get all the cliché's and just plain cartoon-like plot devices. (The power of love...I mean, come on already.)
I'm hoping that now that Clara's presumably left, the next series might move in a new direction and, you know, have the Doctor actually do stuff. I'm writing off the Christmas special, obviously. But maybe the next series might be good?
Not if Moffat King of Fridges is still at the helm, the man seems incapable of writing more than one episode in ten which doesn't leave the viewer with mixed feelings that quickly turn to annoyance when they take the time to actually think about those few parts of the episode they liked and find they make almost no sense at all.Breakdown said:
This one had some fun moments that suffered from aforementioned Fridge Logic, some moments that were super-duper cheesy but still made you grin a bit, a big wad of padding, and some really mixed messages on the military; it almost seems as if they were going to continue on with The Doctor's evident dislike of "military thinking" in crisis situations and make a really decent point about why that's justified using Danny and the wee boy he killed, then some shitehawk pointed out it was Remembrance Day soon and they bottled it, robbing Danny's action of any consequence and throwing in that military wank-scene in the graveyard with the totally irrational speech/Doctor saluting nonsense. I suppose we can at least be thankful that nobody thought to make The Doctor wear a bloody poppy.
My attention had drifted a bit by the end, and looking back at the episode I've realised that I have no idea how that boy came back to life. Can anybody explain how the Cyberman control bracelet managed to bring him back to life?
Are you guys serious.. best season finale I can remember.
Michelle Gomez was an absolute force of nature. I'm surprised there was even any scenery left by the time she got through it. Truly, truly a joy to watch.
Also, don't let me interrupt the whining about how they killed her off.. but did anyone notice that her "disintegration" looked remarkably similar to her teleportation effect from earlier? Nope.. just me?
Michelle Gomez was an absolute force of nature. I'm surprised there was even any scenery left by the time she got through it. Truly, truly a joy to watch.
Also, don't let me interrupt the whining about how they killed her off.. but did anyone notice that her "disintegration" looked remarkably similar to her teleportation effect from earlier? Nope.. just me?
I was very frustrated with the Master in this episode. One of my favourite villains, and i was so excited to see what he/she would do, and she doesn't really do much. i know she kills a few people, but its not givem alot of time, and NOTHING is explained. why is she still alive? why did she try to kill the doctor if she wanted to give him power in the first place? WHY IN HELL DID SHE PUT CLARA AND THE DOCTOR TOGETHER?
on top of all that, nothing that much actually happens in the episode. the cybermen rise up, but they dont do anything but lumber around. why was Clara so angry at Missy, when she didn't even know that Missy had actually killed anyone?
I honestly really liked Dark Water, and i thought most of this season was pretty good, there were even alot of parts of this episode that i liked. but it was such a disappointment, focusing on characters we didn't care about, with nothing much happening.
Also, wasn't the whole reason this finale started was because they tried to find heaven, so couldn't they do the same thing now that Danny is actually dead? thats a more minor nitpick, but it makes less sense when we see Danny communicate from the dead.
on top of all that, nothing that much actually happens in the episode. the cybermen rise up, but they dont do anything but lumber around. why was Clara so angry at Missy, when she didn't even know that Missy had actually killed anyone?
I honestly really liked Dark Water, and i thought most of this season was pretty good, there were even alot of parts of this episode that i liked. but it was such a disappointment, focusing on characters we didn't care about, with nothing much happening.
Also, wasn't the whole reason this finale started was because they tried to find heaven, so couldn't they do the same thing now that Danny is actually dead? thats a more minor nitpick, but it makes less sense when we see Danny communicate from the dead.
What internet are you on? I see him getting grief for everything. He gets grief for things he does. He gets grief for things Davies did. He gets grief for things Classic Who did.Soulrender95 said:
I think he was talking about how people come with grief, not that he doesn't get grief thrown at him.Zachary Amaranth said:
Danny being upset that he accidentally killed a kid in Afghanistan is one thing, but they way he was portrayed as feeling about it, that just isn't how someone who isn't short a few fries of a happy meal does.
Awful. Absolutely fucking awful. The only thing I liked about that episode was the fact that I don't have to watch Clara and Captain fucking boring again. Hoo bloody ray. I mean I wasn't expecting gold because Moffat, but come on, when your audience is guessing that Danny is going to come back as a cyberman, overcome it with love and save the day, you've got problems pal.
Where do I start?
-Cyberman were naff, they didn't even kill anyone. They just doddered around, got out"logiced" by fridge logic, which they even aknowledged and still doddered about till Cyber-Danny shot them. Then they blew themselves up a crappy display of disregard for...any narrative structure, consistancy or quality control. They even screwed up the narrative of the episode they were in. Earlier, Cybermen explode and disperse a cybercloud, when the plot demands, they explode and instead burn up the cybercloud.
-Where the buggery did the Cyberbodies come from? "Nanomachines" would've worked fine, but no, it wasn't that. And if this new technology can create a Cyberbody, why bother with the dead, why not just take over everyone? Why the need for the personality in the Nethersphere at all? They don't need the personality, they need the brain. Which would've obviously been rotting but never bloody mind, "that's getting in the way of my concept which I have in no way fleshed out"; says Mr Moffat.
Why were the people in the Nethersphere given the option to delete their emotions? Why not just delete them and keep them in cyberspace till you need them? They're not fucking going anywhere.
-The scene where Danny and Clara were giving The Doctor shit and the show was on their side when he was telling them NOT to activate the bloody Emotional Inhibiter. Instead of trying to reason with them after they'd abandoned reason, logic, common sense, having encountered The Cybermen before, especially fucking Clara, what he should've said was: "E fuckin nuff, you need to learn to shut your cave, pick up any weapon you can find and twat the buggery out of him!"
Of course this is the Clara show so it did fuck all when they did activate it.
-Emotional Inhibiter. Yeah. Fuck off. They could've actually done something with that, given The Master said about her putting Clara with the Doctor in order to fuck him up (yeah she basically said that, meta, right?), a moment of tragic folly, The Doctor gives into Clara, showcasing The Masters point, Clara switches it on, Danny snaps her neck. (And there was much rejoycing), The Doctor languishes in The Master plot actually coming to fruition, feels be had. Then y'know, The Doctor can actually solve the problem with wit, cunning and intelligence, rather than the bollocks we got.
-The power of fucking love. FUCK OFF. You fucking hack writer. Learn to use your 45 minutes fucking productively! You've been doing this for 4 fucking years! I knew it was coming but still. ARGHH!
-Missy, I was all up for Missy, she seems a bit quirky but she turns into a cartoon character in this episode. Simmons' Master was a bit zany, but at least he was still "grounded". Moreover, her wanting to be "friends" makes no sense. The Rani would've been much better for this role (and perhaps she was going to be originally, we will never know).
-The Brigadier. Yeah....kinda really didn't like him popping up. I liked the Brigadier, but it's a naff cameo for people who know who he is, that sort of craps on the character, and a pointless attempt at a tear-jerker for people who don't. Also, why did he stick around at all?
To save The Doctors soul? The Doctors killed people before, lots of people, he wiped two civilizations off the face of the map. Tennent killed plenty of people with his own hands. Sure, it's a bit different with The Master but still, so what if The Doctor kills him? When you've murdered an entire planet, one villian isn't going to tip your afterlife scales.
-The kid. Yeah, bring the kid back for feel good fun and bonus feels points! Get out.
+Nick Frost as Santa. Huzzah!
Where do I start?
-Cyberman were naff, they didn't even kill anyone. They just doddered around, got out"logiced" by fridge logic, which they even aknowledged and still doddered about till Cyber-Danny shot them. Then they blew themselves up a crappy display of disregard for...any narrative structure, consistancy or quality control. They even screwed up the narrative of the episode they were in. Earlier, Cybermen explode and disperse a cybercloud, when the plot demands, they explode and instead burn up the cybercloud.
-Where the buggery did the Cyberbodies come from? "Nanomachines" would've worked fine, but no, it wasn't that. And if this new technology can create a Cyberbody, why bother with the dead, why not just take over everyone? Why the need for the personality in the Nethersphere at all? They don't need the personality, they need the brain. Which would've obviously been rotting but never bloody mind, "that's getting in the way of my concept which I have in no way fleshed out"; says Mr Moffat.
Why were the people in the Nethersphere given the option to delete their emotions? Why not just delete them and keep them in cyberspace till you need them? They're not fucking going anywhere.
-The scene where Danny and Clara were giving The Doctor shit and the show was on their side when he was telling them NOT to activate the bloody Emotional Inhibiter. Instead of trying to reason with them after they'd abandoned reason, logic, common sense, having encountered The Cybermen before, especially fucking Clara, what he should've said was: "E fuckin nuff, you need to learn to shut your cave, pick up any weapon you can find and twat the buggery out of him!"
Of course this is the Clara show so it did fuck all when they did activate it.
-Emotional Inhibiter. Yeah. Fuck off. They could've actually done something with that, given The Master said about her putting Clara with the Doctor in order to fuck him up (yeah she basically said that, meta, right?), a moment of tragic folly, The Doctor gives into Clara, showcasing The Masters point, Clara switches it on, Danny snaps her neck. (And there was much rejoycing), The Doctor languishes in The Master plot actually coming to fruition, feels be had. Then y'know, The Doctor can actually solve the problem with wit, cunning and intelligence, rather than the bollocks we got.
-The power of fucking love. FUCK OFF. You fucking hack writer. Learn to use your 45 minutes fucking productively! You've been doing this for 4 fucking years! I knew it was coming but still. ARGHH!
-Missy, I was all up for Missy, she seems a bit quirky but she turns into a cartoon character in this episode. Simmons' Master was a bit zany, but at least he was still "grounded". Moreover, her wanting to be "friends" makes no sense. The Rani would've been much better for this role (and perhaps she was going to be originally, we will never know).
-The Brigadier. Yeah....kinda really didn't like him popping up. I liked the Brigadier, but it's a naff cameo for people who know who he is, that sort of craps on the character, and a pointless attempt at a tear-jerker for people who don't. Also, why did he stick around at all?
To save The Doctors soul? The Doctors killed people before, lots of people, he wiped two civilizations off the face of the map. Tennent killed plenty of people with his own hands. Sure, it's a bit different with The Master but still, so what if The Doctor kills him? When you've murdered an entire planet, one villian isn't going to tip your afterlife scales.
-The kid. Yeah, bring the kid back for feel good fun and bonus feels points! Get out.
+Nick Frost as Santa. Huzzah!
But it kind of is Moffat who is to blame. He is both the lead writer and Show runner. he might not be the writer of every episode that has had a problem with it but he approved them. If he dosen't like something or feels that something dosen't work in a story then he would not approve it and it would not end up in the show.The_Kodu said:
I just realized.
Why, when everyone clearly saw that Cybermen can fly, did they decide to do all their business on a plane? Did they think that clouds were the Cybermen's biggest weakness? Did they not realize that this mastermind who's been planning all of this under their noses might have a way of calling the Cybermen to her? Goddammit Moffat.
Why, when everyone clearly saw that Cybermen can fly, did they decide to do all their business on a plane? Did they think that clouds were the Cybermen's biggest weakness? Did they not realize that this mastermind who's been planning all of this under their noses might have a way of calling the Cybermen to her? Goddammit Moffat.
As Zontar pointed out, I was talking about the emotion of grief. I kinda forgot about the other sort of grief which quiet frankly Moffat deserves right now if this is the best way he can think of to create a "bitter sweet" ending.Zachary Amaranth said:
Though I think that Moffat on some level understands that he can't write the pain of grief and loss, because he didn't bother to stop to deal with the death of Osgood Stewart (where was Cyberman Lethbridge stewart then hmm?) assuming that is if it was Osgood personally hoping it gets retconn'ed that it was a prototype ganger (based on reverse engineered sontaran cloning vats recovered from poison sky) or the zygon double, because quiet frankly while I have no problem with writers killing characters if it adds something to the story but her death only served to highlight Missy's insanity and could have been filled by any random scientist, because what is the point of killing Osgood, having Missy taunt the Doctor about it and then go nowhere with it? we didn't even get to see Kate's reaction to her daughters death, Moffat just ignored it because we gotta do our promo for Christmas with SANTA!