Did Bush do anything right?

[Rigs83]

For all the horrible things done under his watch you have to admit that he made people remember that the US is a democracy and their vote does count and we suffered no second 9/11 attack though Katrina was in my opinion just as bad.
I think we need more time to rake through the mess and declassify all the crimes and dirty deeds to know the good or bad of his administration.

 

[simmeh]

I was going to make a similar topic at some point; I was going to ask something like "Will history be kinder to Bush than we were?" I asked this of a friend of mine who's majoring in political sciences, and she believes that Bush will go down as one of the top 5 worst presidents ever. I'm still undecided, but then, my opinion of Bush (and Obama, and Clinton, and any other foreign politician) as always been a emphatic "meh".

 

[Barry93]

Sinking to their level huh? Alright then i guess we should have just not interrogated them at all.

I feel so sorry for the middle. It must get lonely, being excluded all the time.

You ARE aware that it is possible to interrogate people, and get information from them, in ways that AREN'T outtakes from a gay S&M porn movie, right?

I think they should have waterboarded him 184 more times even if it didn't get us anywhere. They don't show any mercy, why should we? As for normal criminals, i really don't care what happens to them as it's their fault they ended up in jail in the first place

The future of America, ladies and gentlemen.

How is that the future of America? You are aware that liberals have the majority in Congress and the presidency right? They wouldn't let something like that happen so how the hell can you deduce that what I said was the future of America. I've lost all faith in you making a credible argument at this point. I guess when the next 9/11 repeat happens we can all just blame Bush like we do for every misfortune in our lives.

 

[Rigs83]

Definition for 'principle' according to Merriam-Webster:

1 a: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption b (1): a rule or code of conduct (2): habitual devotion to right

Also what you say of U.S. military training may have been true. Why do I say that? Because during World War II the Japanese would waterboard American P.O.W.s for intel. Would you like to know what was done to the people who would order that? They were tried and executed by America for war crimes according to the Geneva Convention.

I know, im not saying water boarding is right, im just saying that in this case I really dont mind it.

But you do understand that you're saying this in a thread in which someone is supposed to argue what Bush did right? It seems to imply that you actually DO think torture is right.

Never mind your argument that the man on the receiving end of the torture did wrong. I mean if you just want to overlook the concept of principle then whatever. How about the fact that torture is at best ineffective? Even the damn CIA were telling the people who signed off on all of this that torture is ineffective. And yet it still went through.

I don't generally support torture but against a guy like the one we were talking about I wouldn't have a problem with it. I agree its still wrong since it is technically torture but that doesn't change the way I feel about this particular instance. And besides sometimes you DO get valid info from harsh treatment of prisoners or even through torture (though like I said I don't usually advocate torture) and so that's a bonus.

Bush did a lot of things right but he also did a lot of things wrong, his handling of Gitmo was one thing I think he did wrong. I still say the prisoners there were probably treated better than they deserved to be but again we are the United States and we have to be the good guy (something I still dont understand sometimes) even when the rest of the world seems to hate us for whatever reason. (Why we go to such lengths just to please the rest of the world who probably wouldn't lift a finger to please us is something I dont understand sometime but ah well thats just me).

Now then its late and I should get some sleep before I start ranting.

People always talk about the torturing of the so called enemy combatants but people should also realize that in the regular US prison system inmates are subjected to punishments considered torture according to the Geneva Convention.
Several years ago a Haitian man was arrested for striking an officer during a fight at a concert and while in custody he was sodomized with a broom stick and nearly died of internal bleeding.
In California prison guards set up and recorded Gladiator like fights to sell online.
It's been well recorded that female prisoners often are raped by male prison officials.
By the way I don't consider it possible for a women to consent in that situation and be a guard's girlfriend, she can't say no and not face some retribution and all this is what has been reported, who knows what isn't.

 

[Barry93]

You know what? It is. You didn't see how the media here demonized him and portrayed him as Satan. Bush wasn't great but at the same time he wasn't bad.

To quote a guy from the comment section of a blog I like [http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2007/08/lb-ben-and-glor/comments/page/2/#comment-80599367]:
"I don't even believe in The Antichrist, and I think George W. Bush is it. Him. Whatever.

Observe his eerie similarity to the corrupt late-period Roman emperors -- even to the point of twiddling a stringed instrument while a major American city was virtually destroyed by a disaster partly natural and partly man-made.

Observe the way his followers think he is the most wonderful, charming, sincere, noble, humble, virile, righteous human being in history. They hang on his every word and display open hostility to those who are immune to his charms. And those of us who are immune to his charms find him so un-charming that we are baffled and creeped out by the devotion he appears to inspire.

Observe his constant lip-service to Christianity, at the same time he preaches a message exactly the opposite of the one Jesus brought.

Observe the way his followers seem content to follow him and call it following God."

Well, he's out now. But he's debased this country so badly that I can only hope it will recover within my lifetime.

I stopped reading that after the first sentence, your only proving my point that people think he's the devil. Which doesn't make any sense because Bush a christian and is pro-life. my guess is that the rest of that blog is load of BS that basically repeats the everything said before in a different way. For the last time he didn't screw the country up, the recession is hardly his fault. There's been 13 recessions since the great depression and we always get out of it eventually. They have little to do with the president. If you desperately need to point your finger at someone then may i suggest Wall street and the banks.

 

[Captain Blackout]

You know this was a thread about what he did right. However everyone only seems to be talking about what he did wrong.

More material. Also, if you hadn't noticed, everyone on here disagrees a lot...

True but the errors of the bush administration have already been discussed to death.

You can NEVER finish discussing the errors of the Bush administration. This country needs to NEVER go down that road again and if we have to make it part of the pledge of allegiance so that every school child recites how much of a hack King George the Murderous was every day so be it.

 

[13lackfriday]

Aid for Africa. That was nice of him.

When has the US presidency not been actively involved in sending aid and relief to Africa?

Well, he did royally fuck up the country, and then fail miserably to man up to it by denying it.

 

[US Crash Fire]

yeah! he hired me!
lol

 

[JCambria]

I had the privilege to talk to Michael Buckley about this a few weeks ago. He made a good point about the Bush administration. See, they DID do something good in that they forced America to act today, lest we be thrust into 'screwed-dom' even further. So if you must give Bush credit for anything, give him credit for forcing America's hand, so to speak.

 

[Barry93]

How is that the future of America? You are aware that liberals have the majority in Congress and the presidency right? They wouldn't let something like that happen so how the hell can you deduce that what I said was the future of America. I've lost all faith in you making a credible argument at this point. I guess when the next 9/11 repeat happens we can all just blame Bush like we do for every misfortune in our lives.

I was talking about you. Going by your posts here, you don't just approve of Bush's brainless thuggery, you WORSHIP it. And there seem to be a LOT of people out there who share your opinions.

I DON'T WORSHIP IT! i said it was an average presidency and Bush doesn't deserve to be demonized as the god damned anti-christ. the escapist is full of LOTS of liberals like yourself; you haven't been here long enough to know that.

 

[Barry93]

I stopped reading that after the first sentence, your only proving my point that people think he's the devil. Which doesn't make any sense because Bush a christian and is pro-life.

Bush is pro-War, pro-Death Penalty, pro-Torture, pro-Rich, anti-Poor People. What in there sounds even vaguely like anything Jesus preached? If he's Christian, I'm Emperor Norton the Fifth.

You forgot pro-life, but i guess you left that one part out because it would destroy your argument. the first 3 'pros' mentioned aren't bad qualities. There's actually a good reason why were at war. Acutally the Iraq war essentially ended after the 'surge' I think there's only a few small Al-Qaeda outposts left in Iraq. i don't know about you but i would prefer the death penalty over life in prison anyday. meh, you watch too much MSNBC.

 

[Barry93]

Debased the country?
...
Enlighten me, it seems pretty normal to me

Let's see...

We lost two skyscrapers and a major city on his watch.
The economy nearly collapsed due to unregulated financial shenanigans.
A significant portion of the country was acting like they thought DISAGREEING with The President was _treason_.
Same portion acts like they think the other major political sect HATE this country, not just disagrees about how it should be run.
Creationism made a comeback.
The national debt nearly doubled on his watch.
The US Army decided the SS and the KGB had the right idea after all, and started cribbing their "interrogation" techniques.
And then quislings came out of the woodwork to explain why using the Spanish Inquisition's info-gathering methods was a triumph for FREEDOM(tm).
We invaded two countries, and left them in ruins, leaving us with the choice of staying there forever or watching as they get taken over by hostile theocracies.
Our air and water got more polluted.
Bush decided that any treaty or law he didn't approve personally "didn't count".
Corruption became so obvious that it stopped being news.
Nobody trusts voting machines. But nobody cares enough to get rid of them.
Are educational system is worse off then it was--and that's SAYING something.
And on,
and on,
and on.

Well, that was a little inaccurate. "little" being a very generous term there.

 

[scotth266]

Debased the country?
...
Enlighten me, it seems pretty normal to me

Let's see...

We lost two skyscrapers and a major city on his watch. Something that nobody saw coming, unless the Dems have gotten omniscient again...
The economy nearly collapsed due to unregulated financial shenanigans. Due mainly to the stupidity of your average, greedy investor
A significant portion of the country was acting like they thought DISAGREEING with The President was _treason_. This is his fault? Seems more like our oversight...
Same portion acts like they think the other major political sect HATE this country, not just disagrees about how it should be run.
Creationism made a comeback. PFFFFFT. Don't make me laugh, they just got more vocal. They're on the way out.
The national debt nearly doubled on his watch. Might have to do with the WAR going on
The US Army decided the SS and the KGB had the right idea after all, and started cribbing their "interrogation" techniques.
And then quislings came out of the woodwork to explain why using the Spanish Inquisition's info-gathering methods was a triumph for FREEDOM(tm). Source things that are controversial. Otherwise, I will disregard them
We invaded two countries, and left them in ruins, leaving us with the choice of staying there forever or watching as they get taken over by hostile theocracies. And yet they seemed to like it, and thanked us for getting rid of their dictator
Our air and water got more polluted. I don't see Obama zapping it clean with rainbow beams...
Bush decided that any treaty or law he didn't approve personally "didn't count". Sources, yet again...
Corruption became so obvious that it stopped being news. Monica Lewinski. Heard of her?
Nobody trusts voting machines. But nobody cares enough to get rid of them. CONSPIRACIES! Always a valid argument!
Are educational system is worse off then it was--and that's SAYING something. It's been getting worse since the 70's, your point?
And on,
and on,
and on.

There you go, I defuse you.

Look, this thread has already gotten VERY ugly very fast. There's no need to go around bashing a guy who isn't even in office anymore. Did he do a bad job? Yeah. But I have yet to see magical fixes to everything, and until I do I shall remain sceptical about the new chief of our nation.

 

[Captain Blackout]

Bush is pro-War, pro-Death Penalty, pro-Torture, pro-Rich, anti-Poor People. What in there sounds even vaguely like anything Jesus preached? If he's Christian, I'm Emperor Norton the Fifth.

How do you argue against King George the Murderous and not just snap completely? I can no longer post about him anything more than a few lines without degenerating into a drooling ranting cursing maniacal freak. Congratulations on making the arguments that need made without melting down as if you'd seen the face of Azathoth. And oh yeah, welcome to the Escapist (if you haven't been welcomed yet.)

 

[SeleneRose]

I stopped reading that after the first sentence, your only proving my point that people think he's the devil. Which doesn't make any sense because Bush a christian and is pro-life.

Bush is pro-War, pro-Death Penalty, pro-Torture, pro-Rich, anti-Poor People. What in there sounds even vaguely like anything Jesus preached? If he's Christian, I'm Emperor Norton the Fifth.

You forgot pro-life, but i guess you left that one part out because it would destroy your argument.

No, I left it out because in practice, it comes down to a bunch of old white guys telling women "I'm sorry, but your so-called "rights" are less important to us than the fetus you incubate, at least until it's born, at which point both it and you become utterly disposable." The Bible isn't even anti-infanticide, ya know.

(If I can find a way to work Israel and Gun Control in here, I'll have the Grand Slam of political flamewars! )

Bush is Pro-Life and Pro-Death Penalty. That's like being a vegitarian who eats meat. At least the Catholics are consistent, they oppose both.

the first 3 'pros' mentioned aren't bad qualities.

I'd say they are. War is mass murder with matching clothes, and the problem with the death penalty is that when you kill the wrong guy, you can't just use a Phoenix Down and apologize.

There's actually a good reason why were at war.

Because Bush has issues with his Daddy, and wanted to show him up? Because Dick Cheney had a master plan to scare the Middle East into line?

The invasion of Afghanistan I wouldn't have minded, if BushCo hadn't done such a pathetic job of it and let bin Laden escape, and now Pakistan's falling apart, too. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Acutally the Iraq war essentially ended after the 'surge' I think there's only a few small Al-Qaeda outposts left in Iraq.

The Iraq War ended a LOT sooner than that. It's the Iraq Peace we're losing.

meh, you watch too much MSNBC.

I get my political news from the Internet, the Onion and the Daily Show, thankyouverymuch.

I just pissed myself at that last point
Really?
...
REALLY?