Disconnection from a Game's Narrative.

[Ubiquitous Duck]

So, I played a game recently where I became disconnected from the narrative, towards the end of the story. It was a game that involved multiple universes/existing timelines. That's as much of the game I will detail, so not to delve into spoilers.

I felt that I, unconsciously, was withdrawn from my investment in the story and suddenly the characters had little to no meaning to me.

Now, I personally do not blame this game for this happening, as I thought the whole concept was clever and well done, when considering it in retrospect, but it did mean that the emotional impact of the story at the end was largely lost on me.

There is no specific reason that I can assign to why this happened, as it happened unconsciously. I did not choose to separate myself from the narrative, but just drifted away naturally. I assume it was to do with the fact that I thought the game had devalued my characters and my story by showing that there were millions of universes. To me this makes it seem like mine doesn't really matter that much, in the grand scheme of things, and to every time I win or do something good, there has been a timeline created where this didn't happen and suffering/pain ensued instead. I was just happening to continue in the World where I was succeeding, but was creating extra universes where this was not true, so really, I hadn't won or succeeded at all.

Should I blame the game for disconnecting me from the narrative? Because at the moment, I don't. Was it their fault that this happened? Should this make me rate the game any less than I did?

Have you ever lost connection with a game's narrative? Why do you think it happened?



Disclaimer: This is my first thread topic on a forum ever, so go easy on me.

 

[rbstewart7263]

ILa Noire for me. after making me go through 5 bs dahlia cases that all started and ended the same I couldnt really pick the controller up after that. I got what they were going for but it needed a montage not so many hours of my time.

on a side note in "that" game your universe is the crux. its the main one so to speak so its the most important one with the most importance to the others.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

ILa Noire for me. after making me go through 5 bs dahlia cases that all started and ended the same I couldnt really pick the controller up after that. I got what they were going for but it needed a montage not so many hours of my time.

on a side note in "that" game your universe is the crux. its the main one so to speak so its the most important one with the most importance to the others.

Yes, I get that too when games shoehorn in content to elongate the game length, but they don't really make any sense existing for the story. Like when games ask you to repeat levels, that really gets me.

On your second point, as I say, I had no conscious control over disconnecting from the story, it just happened. I liked the game overall, but lost all emotional connection. I guess that does kind of make sense that it was the 'main' universe, but I'd not really thought about that before. I still saw the value in its story, but just lost my emotional investment which devalued the ending experience for me somewhat. I was more disappointed that I was no longer invested, rather than annoyed at the game itself.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

In Bioshock I pretty much lost interest after the plot twist (not just in the narrative but the game all together). Presumably I'm supposed to be angry at the bad guy for what he did to me but I just didn't care. If there was a choice between going an killing the bad guy (another 2 or 3 hours of play time as I recall) or just jumping in a diving bell and leaving rapture for good right then and there (and risking death by drowning in the process) I would've taken the second option.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

In Bioshock I pretty much lost interest after the plot twist (not just in the narrative but the game all together). Presumably I'm supposed to be angry at the bad guy for what he did to me but I just didn't care. If there was a choice between going an killing the bad guy (another 2 or 3 hours of play time as I recall) or just jumping in a diving bell and leaving rapture for good right then and there (and risking death by drowning in the process) I would've taken the second option.

Do you hold any belief as to why you didn't care?

Had you not cared about the characters up to this point in the game or did that bit just trigger something that made you go: 'Oh Whatever!'?

 

[SmallHatLogan]

In Bioshock I pretty much lost interest after the plot twist (not just in the narrative but the game all together). Presumably I'm supposed to be angry at the bad guy for what he did to me but I just didn't care. If there was a choice between going an killing the bad guy (another 2 or 3 hours of play time as I recall) or just jumping in a diving bell and leaving rapture for good right then and there (and risking death by drowning in the process) I would've taken the second option.

Do you hold any belief as to why you didn't care?

Had you not cared about the characters up to this point in the game or did that bit just trigger something that made you go: 'Oh Whatever!'?

To be honest I'm not really sure. Bioshock was a weird experience for me. I only played it about a year ago for the first time so of course I had heard all the hype. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would (which I think impacted on my sudden loss of interest after the plot twist). I didn't feel at all invested in the player character (whose name I don't even remember). I did feel invested in Atlas though, and I found a lot of the aspects of Rapture interesting, and Andrew Ryan was a very interesting character too.

I know it's an old game but I'll put spoilers anyway.

Spoiler

I'll say that I thoroughly enjoyed the plot twist. It was definitely a mind blowing moment. But I think what made me lose interest was the loss of two great characters (Atlas, in a sense, and Ryan), the fact that the plot twist was kind of the peak of the story and the fact that the story's conclusion is pretty much laid out in front of me (kill Fontaine, live happily ever after). So after the plot twist I kind of felt like the game was finished.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

In Bioshock I pretty much lost interest after the plot twist (not just in the narrative but the game all together). Presumably I'm supposed to be angry at the bad guy for what he did to me but I just didn't care. If there was a choice between going an killing the bad guy (another 2 or 3 hours of play time as I recall) or just jumping in a diving bell and leaving rapture for good right then and there (and risking death by drowning in the process) I would've taken the second option.

Do you hold any belief as to why you didn't care?

Had you not cared about the characters up to this point in the game or did that bit just trigger something that made you go: 'Oh Whatever!'?

To be honest I'm not really sure. Bioshock was a weird experience for me. I only played it about a year ago for the first time so of course I had heard all the hype. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would (which I think impacted on my sudden loss of interest after the plot twist). I didn't feel at all invested in the player character (whose name I don't even remember). I did feel invested in Atlas though, and I found a lot of the aspects of Rapture interesting, and Andrew Ryan was a very interesting character too.

I know it's an old game but I'll put spoilers anyway.

Spoiler

I'll say that I thoroughly enjoyed the plot twist. It was definitely a mind blowing moment. But I think what made me lose interest was the loss of two great characters (Atlas, in a sense, and Ryan), the fact that the plot twist was kind of the peak of the story and the fact that the story's conclusion is pretty much laid out in front of me (kill Fontaine, live happily ever after). So after the plot twist I kind of felt like the game was finished.

I'm trying to remind myself of the story of bioshock, feels like so long ago now!

I guess those moments are unavoidably going to be divisive. Either you buy into the twist and go with it or you completely detach from it.

I remember finding it quite refreshing though, that things didn't play at so 'bog standard' or as expected. I think that's what gave Bioshock its character and is remembered for. I mean I remember that part of the game and nothing else specific, really.

It may be partly to do with you playing it later than most? I remember I watched Fight Club waaay later than it was released and I just didn't get why people liked it so much. I liked it a bit, but I thought it was thoroughly predictable. But that is probably because I have seen films, tv, games etc. since that have copied their method. So, inversely, I actually saw Fight Club as the copy - which caused me to be frustrated at their story.

 

[Exhuminator]

Have you ever lost connection with a game's narrative?

The last game I played that truly threw its narrative off the rails was this one [http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/9/8/7/951987_172037_front.jpg]. I mean, halfway through the game I had zero idea what was going on in the plot. However, I can deal with a WTF story insofar as the gameplay (and in this case graphics as well) stays consistently good. I've finished a fair share of good games with delirious plots in my time because of that. Although, I think the most perfect example of disconnective game narrative is this game [http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/9/4/1/913941_26223_front.jpg]. Class act professional trolling, that.

Why do you think it happened?

I'd say the writers of games like those have grand ideas for a plot, sure. But ultimately they fail to convey the plot in a comprehensive fashion via gameplay or cutscenes as adequate conduits. There's just a fine line between mysterious and byzantine. And just because someone's a good game designer, that does not mean they are also a good writer.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

Have you ever lost connection with a game's narrative?

The last game I played that truly threw its narrative off the rails was this one [http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/9/8/7/951987_172037_front.jpg]. I mean, halfway through the game I had zero idea what was going on in the plot. However, I can deal with a WTF story insofar as the gameplay (and in this case graphics as well) stays consistently good. I've finished a fair share of good games with delirious plots in my time because of that. Although, I think the most perfect example of disconnective game narrative is this game [http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/9/4/1/913941_26223_front.jpg]. Class act professional trolling, that.

Why do you think it happened?

I'd say the writers of games like those have grand ideas for a plot, sure. But ultimately they fail to convey the plot in a comprehensive fashion via gameplay or cutscenes as adequate conduits. There's just a fine line between mysterious and byzantine. And just because someone's a good game designer, that does not mean they are also a good writer.

I've never heard of that game for the PSP. I am fine if games don't have a story or a particularly interesting one, not all games need them to work and it wouldn't make sense in some cases. However, if it has a confusingly told story, at least to me, I can get really frustrated with not knowing or understanding what's going on. I think the metal gear series can be quite guilty of this convoluted storyline buildup that just ends up confusing people. Or in comics, where there is just so much content that every now and then they need to wipe the slate clean to spare everyone's confusion in the mass hysteria.

Plenty of people surely did enjoy the two games you mentioned though? So do you blame the game for failing to keep you connected or do you still have an appreciation for the rest of the game? I in no way hate the game I mentioned for me disconnecting from it, because I felt at fault myself and didn't feel I could blame them, as it is me who cannot connect with the multiple universes/timelines ideas and thus lost my emotive connection. I'm sure plenty of people stayed invested with the story and loved how it panned out and I wished I was one of them, but I just naturally rejected it, without conscious thought.

 

[Exhuminator]

I've never heard of that game for the PSP.

Well I suppose it was a bit niche, really fun game though!

I think the metal gear series can be quite guilty of this convoluted storyline buildup that just ends up confusing people.

Definitely Metal Gear Solid 2 is guilty of that. There are people out there who will defend its plot and say Kojima's writing was genius... but, no. His writing in that game was ambitious no doubt, but executed so poorly that it was far from genius. Or was he just trolling after all? If he was trolling, it was genius trolling.

Plenty of people surely did enjoy the two games you mentioned though?

The PSP game I mentioned was hit or miss with critics, MGS2 definitely was regarded highly at its time... but probably due more to pedigree and hysteria-hype than anything else.

So do you blame the game for failing to keep you connected or do you still have an appreciation for the rest of the game?

As long as the gameplay is good, I can still enjoy a game with a baffling narrative. If I desperately want to understand what is going on though, I have no problem going online and reading a synopsis of its story for further elucidation. However, once my emotional investment in a game's plot has been compromised, I find it's almost impossible to get that back.

 

[spartandude]

Mass Effect 3 was a big one for me, and im going to do it without talking about that fucking ending.

In ME3 the reapers were an almost unstoppable force... when we dont see them. With the exception of Thessia everytime we see the reapers they either dont do much or we dont see them doing much damage at all. But when they arnt on screen they completely wreck everything. For example in the beginning the manage to force the massive fleet defending earth into a retreat in a couple of minutes, however when they land on earth they dont do anything except stand around really. Sure we occasionally destroy something but not much more than that.

They just came across as rather weak and a much more manageable enemy than they should, especially after what ME1 showed what just 1 reaper could do.

 

[Shymer]

Three questions I use to interrogate stories I am writing:

"So what?" - why should the reader care?
"Oh yeah?" - is the protagonist's action believable in their universe?
"Huh?" - can you understand what's going on?

Inadequate answers to any of any of these questions may lead to a reader losing interest.

Some games link action sequences with a narrative (Bioshock, Mass Effect, MGS, Thief, Half-life). This is difficult to do well. If the action sequences have no purpose in the narrative - then it fails the "So what?" test. (This is doubly difficult if you have a silent protagonist). Cliche also can trigger a "So What?" response. If the character uses powers in cut-scenes that it cannot do during the gameplay, then is fails the "Oh yeah?" test (Force Unleashed 2). Is the game is a poor translation or over-complicated, then it can fail the "Huh?" test.

If it works out well, however, then it can be powerful. A story WITH interaction. No surprise that some of these games are counted amongst the best ever created. Given this, then the control, responsibility and blame has to sit with the game creators.

I am friendly with many people in the games industry and sometimes the game is a compromise between available resource (money/time), publisher demands and skills of the people involved. It is quite common for non-professional writers to be involved in script development or worse - forced to re-write scripts that were given to a contractor - but screwed up.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

...especially after what ME1 showed what just 1 reaper could do.

One Sovereign Class Reaper. Although admittedly if you didn't dig into the game's lore/backstory it did a really piss poor job communicating that there were different kinds of Reapers.

It's kind of like seeing Darth Vader tearing shit up and then wondering why Storm Troopers aren't equally effective.

 

[Racecarlock]

Welcome to the escapist. As long as you are calm and rational and smart, you will have a place here.

This will sound a bit weird, but I feel that disconnection every time I watch someone let's play heavy rain or beyond two souls. Because the games themselves are about as interactive as picking chapters from a DVD menu. It didn't even matter that I was watching a let's play, because I still feel that I got the essential experience. A feeling I did not get when watching playthroughs of the stanley parable. I still want to play the stanley parable even though I know all the endings now. I still want to mess with that narrator. With beyond two souls and heavy rain, I don't feel like I still want to play them now. Not that I did before, but even less so now. I can tell that that's the level of involvement you have. You might as well be watching a movie on a DVD and randomly going back to the chapter menu and picking a different chapter or one of the alternate endings.

It doesn't help that david cage games are usually boring as hell.

 

[Savagezion]

The idea of these millions of universes is a cool concept. In a game with choice is weird though. I can see how you would want it or even need it for a story with choice. But I can also totally see where it takes away from your feeling of choice. It seems like it could make choice completely irrelevant to the narrative. Although, it is a good way to keep every player's choices as part of the canon. I would think you would blame the narrative, but can see where someone could blame the game. Maybe both are at fault?

I was the same way with Bioshock. I didn't self insert so I wasn't to invested in the morals being presented. It was just a story. The protagonist side was bland, the antagonist side was interesting. I felt it needed more characters or something. Maybe have killing or saving the little sisters add a new mechanic instead of money. Not sure what it would be but something like being able to pick multiple paths through rapture based on who you harvest/save. Maybe something like "harvest" allows you to level up your infusion skills with no other way to do so - while "save" is the main source of income in the game. Maybe have each one saved/harvest influence the story itself.
The atmosphere was really good in it. The only problem for me was that about halfway through the story, most of the 'characters' where just faceless mooks running around psychopathically. Which also describes the player character as well. When an actual normal human shows up, I got excited just because "OMG a character in the story!". I understand that the "everyone is dead" atmosphere kinda needs everyone to be dead. But that guy on the radio kills that vibe for me in the game right off the bat. Then I just feel alone, which again, is a credit to the atmosphere but when combined with the flood of resources made available to me throughout the game, that pulls away from the atmosphere. Because I ain't alone and scared, I am just alone.

I hate to bring it up but since were naming identical games, Mass Effect 3's whole main plot did the same for me. The whole main plot just kills it for me. Outside of some cool missions I really don't care about Shepard in that story. The game credits some characters with a few cool scenes but overall, the characters get more stiff. This started in 2 but it wasn't too bad because the new characters brought variety and fresh outlooks on the universe and Shepard. EVery time I see Vega I see "Mr. CoD". I know he has a copy on the Normandy somewhere. LOL, nothing against CoD or its players. But he just didn't bring anything to Mass Effect for me. He was about as valuable as Ashley or Kaiden in 1. Whom it takes 3 games for those two to get interesting for me. I could flip a coin on who lives and dies between em out of simply not caring. The missions in 3 help me kind of hit reset and ignore the story for a bit but every time it comes back I am soon bored.

 

[Savagezion]

Welcome to the escapist. As long as you are calm and rational and smart, you will have a place here.

This will sound a bit weird, but I feel that disconnection every time I watch someone let's play heavy rain or beyond two souls. Because the games themselves are about as interactive as picking chapters from a DVD menu. It didn't even matter that I was watching a let's play, because I still feel that I got the essential experience. A feeling I did not get when watching playthroughs of the stanley parable. I still want to play the stanley parable even though I know all the endings now. I still want to mess with that narrator. With beyond two souls and heavy rain, I don't feel like I still want to play them now. Not that I did before, but even less so now. I can tell that that's the level of involvement you have. You might as well be watching a movie on a DVD and randomly going back to the chapter menu and picking a different chapter or one of the alternate endings.

It doesn't help that david cage games are usually boring as hell.

Personally, I like what David Cage is doing but can see the boredom in the gameplay. I get the same vibe from L.A. Noire only not as 'dull'. I think David Cage and Team Bondi getting together could make something really cool happen. Especially if you hire a good writer in addition.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Are you by any chance talking about Bioshock Infinite?

Because if so, then I would say it's the writing's fault for the disconnect.
Even if it wasn't BSI I'd still blame the writing. (I don't know if I'd call that "The game" though)

It's writing's job to keep you invested in what's going on and if it doesn't then it failed. Simple as that. Whether it was bad exposition or the pacing was bad or the stakes just didn't make sense. But the game as a whole has a lot more going on in it than just the writing.

Bad controls could disconnect you from a narrative. A bad art style, bad voice acting etc etc.
The systems of the game being at odds with the story being told (Ala GTA IV)

There are tons of reasons but to me it seems like in your case it's the writing that fell apart for you

 

[Alssadar]

I stopped caring over Tales of Symphoniaawn of the New World.
Mainly when they started talking about the Gigungagap.I mean, sure, in Norwegian or Icelandic it might sound like a normal word, but in the context of English? It's nonsense.
Also, Marta left the party for some arbitrary reason again. And, now that you're in the next area, she's rejoined the party. My mate and I nearly started a drinking game, it happened so often. I guess I'm not that big of a fan of overdramatic Japanese teenage girls or "overly complex" narrative structures filled with numerous characters who act rather irrelevant.

 

[Racecarlock]

Welcome to the escapist. As long as you are calm and rational and smart, you will have a place here.

This will sound a bit weird, but I feel that disconnection every time I watch someone let's play heavy rain or beyond two souls. Because the games themselves are about as interactive as picking chapters from a DVD menu. It didn't even matter that I was watching a let's play, because I still feel that I got the essential experience. A feeling I did not get when watching playthroughs of the stanley parable. I still want to play the stanley parable even though I know all the endings now. I still want to mess with that narrator. With beyond two souls and heavy rain, I don't feel like I still want to play them now. Not that I did before, but even less so now. I can tell that that's the level of involvement you have. You might as well be watching a movie on a DVD and randomly going back to the chapter menu and picking a different chapter or one of the alternate endings.

It doesn't help that david cage games are usually boring as hell.

Personally, I like what David Cage is doing but can see the boredom in the gameplay. I get the same vibe from L.A. Noire only not as 'dull'. I think David Cage and Team Bondi getting together could make something really cool happen. Especially if you hire a good writer in addition.

Hey, if that's you're thing, go for it. But I personally feel more invested in a game when I get to actually do stuff rather than press a button to start a cutscene of a character doing stuff.