Do all women like jerks? No (a rant)

[kurupt87]

OP, your point is of course true. It does completely miss the point though.

Men, or so called "nice guys", complaining about women preferring jerks are not referring to relationships. They are talking about sex. There is a difference, one that most women refuse to see. Even those that do see it acknowledge it by picking up our so called jerks; it's safe to shag and leave a jerk.

Their only leg to stand on in defence of this behaviour/outlook is that a sizable quantity of these "nice guys" have taken that feminine stance on sex and made it their own too. In other words, a woman who picks up a nice guy for a one nighter is left with the awkward morning goodbye to a guy that doesn't want her to go.

Much like the situation a nice guy gets when he does actually succeed on the pull; finding a reluctant to leave and relationship seeking woman in his bed in the morning. He is a "nice guy" and, therefore, a "catch". He becomes a "jerk" when he asks her to leave, explaining once again that all he was looking for was a one nighter.

A nice guy has a better chance picking up a ***** than a decent girl, however; a ***** is much less attractive to your average bloke than a jerk is to a lass.

This general outlook on sex pisses me the hell off. Sort it out people, women and "nice guys" alike.

tl;dr
Nice guy + sex = relationship
Jerk + sex = one nighter

Why? I have no clue but it's piss annoying.

Snip.

Sorry but you should read "The Game." by Neil Strauss, it'll help you understand what a shallow and easy to manipulate person, sorry I mean woman you are.

Apparently someone isn't particularly enamoured of a woman with a voice. No real need to try and undermine her personality but, whatever.

Bit pathetic really.

You also exposed far more of your own personality in that poorly constructed sentence than the OP did in her well articulated post.

If she can be bothered with you, you may even get an explanation of why you're so pathetic.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

Better a jerk than a pussy.

 

[Leo257]

Have you ever thought of just walking up to them and plain ask what was the problem, why they are looking at you funny that way?

I love the idea of "What the f*@k are you looking at?" as a pick up line. I know you didn't mean it that way, and I definitely wouldn't say it, but that is the first thing I thought when I read it.

Maybe it would work if the girl likes jerks?

 

[WingedIncubus]

I love the idea of "What the f*@k are you looking at?" as a pick up line. I know you didn't mean it that way, and I definitely wouldn't say it, but that is the first thing I thought when I read it.

Maybe it would work if the girl likes jerks?

Not really, unless it is made very, very tongue in cheek or the non-verbal vibe is already there. Most of the time, however, it sounds stand-offish and confrontational. Not good.

Plus, it's not a pick-up line. I hate random pick-up lines uttered out of context. I wouldn't use that to open conversation unless it's very obvious the girl's been checking me out.

I'd prefer something like, with a very suave voice and wicked smirk on my face, "I know what you are doing there! You're such a perv, eyeing me like that! You'd so deserve a little spanking, you bad, bad girl!" and see where it leads. It should be evident that you're teasing just by your voice tone and your eye contact, so that she knows that you are playing with her.

From the start, the sexual tone is set and you plant the idea that she might have been checking you out from the start. If it rings, she'll deny and attempt to defend herself with a laugh and a smiling demeanor on her face. If she bracks off and gets angry, however, I'd just say "chill out, you take yourself too seriously. Not good." and pass to the next girl. After all, I'm just teasing and busting her balls, nothing to become upset about, and if the girl doesn't play by my rules there are other girls who will.

 

[Macetruwindo]

First off do ALL women like jerks?? well no that generalization is far to large.

That being said I do have had this conversation A LOT with of female friends.
Friend: I just broke up with my BF
Me: You want to talk about it
Friend:<Talks about how much of an asshole the guys is for the next 30-45mins>
Me:<Listens, Reassuring her and making her laugh for that period of time>
Friend: I just wish I could find a guy that would listen and make me laugh, well thanks for making me feel better...

This is followed by a party sometime later where they hook up with someone who sometime later ends up being a jerk and we wonder how some of the nice guys get jaded . Now before someone says something about making my move and all that 9 out of 10 times it is the friends that I am not looking at turning into GF. The 1 out of 10s usually follow with "Your such a good friend" line which would mean that I would have to be a jerk to then press my advance at that point

...I was a nice, polite guy who actually wanted to get to know a girl before dating her. That quite often relegated me to the friend department and quite a few times I saw a girl I liked start dating someone else right under my nose. It was quite frustrating but over all worthwhile...

I pretty much have the same story. Now about confidence. I have it lots of it, I can start a conversation anywhere with anyone. There are very few social circles I can't fit into, But I do have a big insecurity. Is the fact that I know I can walk into someones life destroy them emotional and leave an empty shell, the bad thing about being emotional in touch with yourself and empathy. I am happy to say that I DON'T use my skill in empathy in such a way but it is hard to control and get what you want when emotions run strong. I have a few friends like this a one of the decided to see what would happened if he played the field and he was very successful. He did stop after letting the girls down gently, but it is a good example of why some "Nice Guys" act the way they do and it is not to avoid getting hurt but to avoid hurting others(And yes it is a bit screwed up). Then there ARE the "Nice Guys" that just do it to get laid.

The big moral to the story is that ALL generalizations suck and there are true nice guys out there, so just don't kill them off because there are guys that use the "Nice Guy" banner as something to hide under.

So yeah, jerks might get to sleep around alot, but I don't really consider that a great thing. As far as them being attractive, well they get what they want out there....and it just makes sense that women react to that.

/agree

are feminists ruining everything for everyone

Some of them are, I can't remember which group it is there are so bloody many. There are some feminists out there that want to get rid of male masculinity which would make for some screwed up males

P.S Sorry for the way it is written I am REALLY tired

 

[RA92]

snip

Hiraeth, dear, I'd love to pat you on the back, and send you off to your next vigilante mission of ameliorating the idiots who gets a raging hard-on by joining the PC vs Mac forums, the PC vs Console forums and the PS3 vs XBox 360 forums. But alas, I've no choice but to be a buzzkill... with the aid of science.

The fact is, if you take the definition of a jerk in terms of the personality traits of narcissism, thrill-seeking and deceitfulness, then the jerks are favored by women. These three personality traits, otherwise known as the Dark Triad, are argued to be innate, genetic components. And considering that these traits are unhealthy for the gene pool, they should've been bred out a long time ago. But they're not, because the men with the 'dark triad' of traits are likely to have a larger number of sexual affairs. A study by Peter Jonason, of New Mexico University in Las Cruces, have conducted research pointing to that. Here are some excerpts:

The dark triad of traits are the self-obsession of narcissism, the impulsive, thrill-seeking and callous behaviour of psychopaths and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism. "We have some evidence these traits may represent a successful evolutionary strategy," Dr Jonason told New Scientist magazine.

The study subjected 200 college students to personality tests designed to rank them in terms of the dark triad. They were also asked about their sexual relationships, including their attitude towards brief affairs.

Dr Jonason said those with the highest rating in terms of the dark triad tended to have more partners and a greater desire for short-term affairs.

The dark triad approach is one way of maximising a man's reproductive potential by having sex with many females, while not bothering to stick around to help with the children. "The strategy seems to have worked. We still have these traits," Dr Jonason said.

David Schmitt, of Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois, surveyed 35,000 people in 57 countries and found a similar link. "It is universal across cultures," he said.

Source

So yes, it has been scientifically proven thatt the higher a man scored on the "dark triad" scale the more sex partners he had had. Even if not all women like jerks, most women do.

Look, I hate stereotyping, but I simply came to the conclusion that the world is filled with assholes a long time back (on the other side of the fence: I've lost count how many times the average guy has to make a stray sexual remark about a passing lady, or how many guys hit on girls based on hip and bust size; hell, look at my avatar - that's all I've in my mind!) So I don't bother defending anybody.

 

[RA92]

snip

Hiraeth, dear, I'd love to pat you on the back, and send you off to your next vigilante mission of ameliorating the idiots who gets a raging hard-on by joining the PC vs Mac forums, the PC vs Console forums and the PS3 vs XBox 360 forums. But alas, I've no choice but to be a buzzkill... with the aid of science.

The fact is, if you take the definition of a jerk in terms of the personality traits of narcissism, thrill-seeking and deceitfulness, then the jerks are favored by women. These three personality traits, otherwise known as the Dark Triad, are argued to be innate, genetic components. And considering that these traits are unhealthy for the gene pool, they should've been bred out a long time ago. But they're not, because the men with the 'dark triad' of traits are likely to have a larger number of sexual affairs. A study by Peter Jonason, of New Mexico University in Las Cruces, have conducted experiments pointing to that. Here are some excerpts:

The dark triad of traits are the self-obsession of narcissism, the impulsive, thrill-seeking and callous behaviour of psychopaths and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism. "We have some evidence these traits may represent a successful evolutionary strategy," Dr Jonason told New Scientist magazine.

The study subjected 200 college students to personality tests designed to rank them in terms of the dark triad. They were also asked about their sexual relationships, including their attitude towards brief affairs.

Dr Jonason said those with the highest rating in terms of the dark triad tended to have more partners and a greater desire for short-term affairs.

The dark triad approach is one way of maximising a man's reproductive potential by having sex with many females, while not bothering to stick around to help with the children. "The strategy seems to have worked. We still have these traits," Dr Jonason said.

David Schmitt, of Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois, surveyed 35,000 people in 57 countries and found a similar link. "It is universal across cultures," he said.

Source

So yes, it has been scientifically proven thatt the higher a man scored on the "dark triad" scale the more sex partners he had had. Even if not all women like jerks, most women do.

Look, I hate stereotyping, but I simply came to the conclusion that the world is filled with assholes a long time back (on the other side of the fence: I've lost count how many times the average guy has to make a stray sexual remark about a passing lady, or how many guys hit on girls based on hip and bust size; hell, look at my avatar - that's all I've in my mind!) So I don't bother defending anybody.

 

[RA92]

Double Post? Dammit, I pressed EDIT, I SWEAR!

 

[Sarah Frazier]

Maybe I should note that I married a man who tends to fall into the Jerk category. He's not physically active like a jock or drop-dead gorgeous like a movie star; he is smart. Very smart. There's a pile of fictional books he reads that are full of sciences, magics, religions, and politics and how he'd love to use parts of those things in a D&D game. When he actually knuckles down and writes out the story and math and charts, the game had the right mix of structure and freedom so players can have fun with as much or as little seriousness as they want.

Of course he does tend to use his quick wits to say things and pull off tactics in games that can be considered jerkish. He almost always has something on the tip of his tongue to say and often times distracts people from what they're doing with jokes, quotes, or ramblings about what other people should do. I can easily see where this would be jerk material, and I even call him a jackass from time to time, but it isn't an all-the-time behavior and stops at the line where he knows his actions would ruin a person's fun or learning experience. He only acts this way around people he's familiar with and know better than to take him seriously. The same can't be said for other guys at the gaming store who will lie and cheat, then laugh at the confused newbie when the rules keep changing.

 

[TheAceTheOne]

I'm a woman, I have arms

I'm calling shenanigans. Everyone know women don't have arms.

Woah, lol.

On topic: I call it "Nice Guy Syndrome" when a guy who isn't a jerk gets turned down for a jerk. I've seen this happen, and while I'm lucky enough to have a wonderful, loving girlfriend, I've seen terrible girl-jerk relationships. Estimate: 75% of girls go for jerks, leaving the nice guys as "just friends". The 25% who are more than friends with a girl usually last.

 

[Dags90]

snip

I'm sorry, but your post doesn't "prove" anything. One small study conducted only on 200 college women is pretty much useless. I can't view the rest of the data for your other source, so I have no idea of its validity. Even if it is valid, one study is not conclusive proof. It's suggestive, not conclusive.

There's also the problem of subjective degrees of "narcissism, thrill-seeking, and deceitfulness". The little bit of the article I could read said that those who show minor characteristics of these traits fair better. What one person calls "thrill-seeking" another calls "outgoing".

There's a serious bias in science journalism to make mountains out of molehills, this is an example of that. "Study says 'Maybe'" just doesn't make for sexy headlines.

 

[Death God]

When I was in Jr. High, I had a friend who kept going out with abusive boyfriends and so I asked her why and she told me, "I thought I saw a softer soul behind all that anger and thought I could change that anger into something more creative".

 

[Ham_authority95]

Spoiler

So this originally started as a response to another thread, then I decided that instead of writing the same thing for what feels like the millionth time, when it would inevitably crop up somewhere else tomorrow, I'd rather just make a thread. And thus, this rant was born. Also, this is my first thread, and I understand that henceforth some of you will probably think that I'm a rabid feminist with an evil vagenda, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

I'm a woman, have been for as long as I can remember. I have a few friends who are women too, some whom I've known for upwards of ten years. One thing that my experiences of women have taught me is that it's near impossible to produce a blueprint for all women any more detailed than 'has a vagina and breasts' and sometimes even that's not entirely accurate. Yes I do have some friends who date guys that treat them like princesses, and I have friends who date guys that treat them like dirt. I also have friends (and I belong to this category) who like their boyfriend to be an equal partner in the relationship. A guy who protects them, and will let them protect him in return, who treats his girlfriend with respect and gets respect from her. As far as I'm concerned, a relationship is a partnership, it's about balance, mutual respect, give and take and other equilibrium related words (as well as things like love, intimacy and sexytime).

I personally do not want to date a guy who does everything for me, pays for every meal, insists on carrying everything for me, buys gifts for me all the time, calls me every half hour and constantly worries about whether or not I'm okay. I'm a woman, not an invalid, I have money and arms and I am capable of looking after myself and occasionally I want to just do my own thing. I want a guy who has his own friends, life and interests outside of our relationship, and who doesn't constantly need me there to support him. I also do not want to date a guy who belittles me, treats me like crap, is rude to my family, insults my friends, doesn't respect my wishes, will never lift a finger to help me and never has time for me. Both of those guys can stay the hell away from me.

What I want to make absolutely clear with this post, is that, yes I am a woman, but I'm also a person, and I'd like to be treated like one. Saying that all women like jerks is as arbitrary and pointless as saying that all men like sluts. Sure, I know guys that do, but I also know guys that look for more than sex, and even some that are waiting until marriage before they get laid. I'm sick of seeing people appearing on this forum with an axe to grind about how they'll never find a woman because they're not horrible enough for women to be attracted to them. I'm tired of feeling like I, and everyone else with a vagina, am being blamed for the fact that some guys have had bad experiences with some girls.

Yes, many of you probably have met awful women in your lives. Maybe they were rude to you when you were just trying to be chivalrous, maybe they treated you like a combined butler and atm. Maybe you got stuck in the friend zone while they dated someone who you could see was never going to treat them right. I am not denying that these women exist, I've even met some of them. I don't think I'm one of them, and for the most part my friends aren't either.

With that in mind, I hope I have made it clear that I realize that not all guys think like this. Sadly the few that do have managed to piss me off that I decided to come on here and yell for a bit. So in the spirit of growing as people, I'd like to suggest that we stop generalizing and move on. Except that since everyone on this forum is just a sexist, overgrown man-child I guess that's that's never going to happen (note: this was a joke).

Wow that ended up being long. Okay, nearly finished.

A quick note on confidence: Yes, confidence can be sexy, which is one explanation for why jerks get laid. I'm of the 'well if you're not confident and you don't love yourself, then how can you expect someone else to fall in love with you' camp. Get confidence in yourself, make your own friends, get involved in your own hobbies, take care of your appearance etc. and when you least expect it you'll probably meet someone who thinks you're awesome and wants to be a part of your life. Personally I think that's a pretty good strategy regardless of gender.


tl:dr? Yes some women like to date jerks. Some women also like to date 'nice guys', men that respect them, men who are Asian, men with big donkey dicks, men with beards, men who have good relationships with their mothers, men who snowboard, men with tattoos, men who are Christian, men who play WoW, etc. etc. Some women even like to date other women, or don't like to date at all. Can we stop generalizing now please?


So, what do you guys think? Do women actually like jerks, do they hate jerks, do we need to move on from this whole stupid thing, are feminists ruining everything for everyone, do I need to get my butt back in the kitchen, are we actually all slaves to our biology and really just looking for the strongest potential mates, do I need a poll for this thread? I'd love to hear your opinions. Thanks for reading.


Yes, I used the search function and got a bunch of threads like 'how to talk to women', 'why nice guys finish last' and the like, plus comments in other threads where this has popped up. I don't think there's anything similar enough that I should have posted in there, but if that turns out to be the case, I apologize and will accept any punishment you see fit to deliver unto me.

I agree with you, especially with the confidence part. EVERYONE in ANY situation, romantic or not, are generally better off if they can just put their foot forward and say "fuck it, I'm doing it."

The people who make generalizations about women(like the ladder theory, the "friend-zone" and not liking nice-guys) are usually just pissed off at their own romantic failures.

Most "why don't girls like nice guys?" threads are very thinly veiled "why can't I manipulate the woman I'm stalking into my bed?" threads. They give me the shits.

Plus the whinging little shits are often chasing some unobtainable idealised version of a woman and shunning many of the 'plainer' yet far more interesting birds.

...and I thank you for posting a brief description of the truth.

 

[Macetruwindo]

, but it isn't an all-the-time behavior and stops at the line where he knows his actions would ruin a person's fun or learning experience. He only acts this way around people he's familiar with and know better than to take him seriously.

And that is why you hubby ISN'T a jerk. He knows where the line is and play right up too it and doesn't cross it

There's a pile of fictional books he reads that are full of sciences, magics, religions, and politics and how he'd love to use parts of those things in a D&D game. When he actually knuckles down and writes out the story and math and charts, the game had the right mix of structure and freedom so players can have fun with as much or as little seriousness as they want.

Of course he does tend to use his quick wits to say things and pull off tactics in games that can be considered jerkish.

Well of course it would be jerkish it is called a challenge, it everything he threw at players was on a silver plater it would be as fun.

The same can't be said for other guys at the gaming store who will lie and cheat, then laugh at the confused newbie when the rules keep changing.

wow what jerks

 

[Ham_authority95]

Dr Jonason said those with the highest rating in terms of the dark triad tended to have more partners and a greater desire for short-term affairs.

See, there's your problem.

That study was just about sexual relationships. The "dark triad" that the guy is describing gets a guy more sex(or babies) with many different women, but not lasting, happy relationships.

We are too advanced now for that evolutionary formula to apply to the majority of us. We no longer live in caves.

 

[idontwannabeaschizo]

Personally I just want to, need to in fact is to get out of the vicious cycle I'm trapped in. I get rejected from really nice girls I court. (and its been my experience with the "your a nice guy... but" routine too so forgive me if a generalization or two sneaks into my psyche, I'm only human after all)

So thus disheartened and "learned" I treat the next girl who comes along and has the guts to show affection to me like shit, and thus lose her too. How do I switch the gears on this hell cycle before it runs me off the proverbial (or literal) cliff of permanent bachelorhood? I admit I'm very unconfident with women whom I have feelings toward.

 

[Plurralbles]

they do like, however, someone who has lots of friends.

The reasons are obvious.

Kinda' like how I only had a chance with a girl when she wasn't partying and already had a boyfriend so used it as an excuse to ccheat on him with the guy next door cuz' why not toy with him?

Now... Nope. I suck dick and the better alternative to me is everyone because once she was single people wouldn't look at her weird for sleeping over at guys houses.