Do Americans have a right to carry?
- Thread starter Gindil
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Well I wouldn't pretend to know a lot about american law but I thought it was illegal for them to pull a gun on you unless you posed a threat. As this guy wasn't even breaking the law that surely means that he wasn't posing a threat. So surely the cop broke the law immediately by pulling out his gun. I fail to see how he enforced the law when the law wasn't even broken!Sober Thal said:
Anyway, this whole situation could be avoided if neither of the idiots had guns.
Walking up behind someone and shooting them requires you to be a trained ninja? HOLY SHIT I CAN DO THAT?! Am I a ninja? You want me to teach you my amazing ninja skills? I NEVER KNEW I WAS A NINJA! I also know the other trick of "running up behind you and jamming a knife in your kidneys before you can pull a gun, turn around, catch the saftey and aim a shot". Its tricky but it requires the difficult skills of "running" and "randomly jamming a knife in you as fast as i can" that are reserved only for ninjas according to you. You wouldnt know. Youre not a "trained ninja" like me.CannibalRobots said:
/sarcasm
Guns dont protect you unless you are first to shoot and hit. Are you going to pre-emptively shoot a stranger and perhaps kill an innocent to protect yourself? Maybe. But that moments hesitation gives the mugger the edge. And if you go around pre emptively shooting people? Someone innocent is gonna get killed.
It will be an interesting proof of concept in Texas though as it is I don't think it is replicable throughout America and especially not the rest of the world.Lil devils x said:
Texas has a very well established firearms culture meaning there is a high likelihood that someone in the teach profession is not only willing to carry a firearm but is also competent enough to use it.
I think it is a necessity that the local law enforcement is deployed to schools but in a VERY PARTICULAR capacity of primarily Perimeter defence: they man the metal detectors and patrol the perimeter fence and even road blocks to defend against "ram raids". In other words, treat schools with the same security precautions as airports.
Airports used to have very little security, but throughout the 60's and 70's after a serious of terrorist attacks law enforcement finally cottoned on an realised what a sensitive target it was and how tempting it was to those with homicidal intentions. Airports were one of the first true "gun free zones" but back in the good-ole'-days it's wasn't a political gimmick it was for real.
The same lesson must be learnt from shootings and other education establishments as these ARE "soft targets"
CAVEAT
It is very important that schools allow to continue to function as schools, the police must be there to prevent outside attack or smuggling weapons for internal attacks but the general enforcement of the school rules must remain with the teachers.
Cops are trained and experienced to detaining crack-heads, jail-birds and drunken adults... not immature children. Teachers are far better at breaking up 13 year olds having a slap fight than some cop hardened by the street. Trouble - including criminal behaviour - must be dealt with in the principal's office before being sent to the police interrogation room.
A good principal knows how to deal with a kid who vandalises property, what is the best balance, but a cop will only see a law broken and a crime to be prosecuted.
The public don't need guns, it encourages people to become hero's, which leads to people being killed over $50. People don't need guns, Americans seem to cling to guns like security blankets. There seems to be this paranoia that America will be invaded and every men, women and child will need to be armed in order to fend off the invaders.Reishadowen said:
Notice my over use of the word "seems", as to not generalize too much.
By making guns illegal your making guns harder to get hold off, so less gang members have them, police are safer 'cos there is less chance of them having a gun, there will be next to no school shootings (how many have there been in the USA? 10 or so?), less aremd robberies.
Yeah, you are making law abiding people helpless, thats how they should be. So people, who are trained and have protective equipment, can deal with it and not somebody who is going to escalate the situation wearing jeans and a T.
Is losing a few bucks that much of a deal?
I just think it's a stupid idea to give loads of morons things that kill so easily.
Yes, morons. Average Joe Bloggs is a moron, have you seen that notalwaysright.com site? I am sure you have seen or heard things that have made you think "god, your stupid", what about typing "fail" into youtube? Do you want them dumdums owning a 9mm? I am scared that there allowed to drive!
You can enforce a test to own a gun but your still having guns available to anybody, who could do anything with it.
Your never going to 100% get rid of guns but the less there is out there the safer I feel.
I am not in the force but from what I have seen they talk the situation down and only use restraining methods. I have never had a gun pointed at me but if it was I am sure I would be more anxious and nervous than if it was just a bloke talking to me.DigitalAtlas said:
When I was a teenager I worked for a retail drug store chain. The in-store security/loss prevention guy was a redneck who loved to wear a t-shirt that showed a picture of a cops with their guns drawn, standing next to a patrol car, and the caption "NEVER QUESTION AUTHORITY".coppah20HE said:
My favorite questions for him were:
"What if George Washington believed that?"
"What if Jesus believed that?"
He didn't like me all that much. ;-)
Your comment reminds me of that guy and that shirt. Yes, the guy in the article was being an idiot, but the cop was an asshole too. He was just an asshole with a gun and a badge.
Well, it's supposed to be anyway.Jamie Doerschuck said:
It's sad to see an "enlightened" society go down that road.
But that is for another thread.
Considering that the largest city in Norway has a population of 500.000, I guess the answer is no.lemiel14n3 said:
And if it is so damn dangerous then I don't care to either.
Counties are not always able to afford enough police. Police cannot be everywhere at once. That was the reason for arming the schools in that district. If It takes officers 45 min to respond, you can have an entire school slaughtered in that amount of time by an intruder.Treblaine said:
The truth is though, If you are in your home asleep and you hear someone in your home, they could have you raped, tortured and murdered before the police ever arrive, even if someone was actually able to call the police. It comes down to the fact that in a situation, no one is going to save you but you, so everyone should learn how to defend themselves. I do not support just firearms training, but hand to hand combat training as well. People should know how to defend themselves, because there is no knight in shining armor coming to rescue you from the bad guys. The world isn't that peachy.
Ask any police officer, criminals DON'T open carry. Open carrying a gun is the exact same as having a "protected by ADT" or whatever sign on your front lawn. The one thing criminals fear more than police officers are armed civilians.
It seems like the cop just panicked which is what I would hope a trained cop wouldnt do cause someone could get killed and that would be sad. The fact that we cant carry around a weapon that is licensed for protection without fear of police harrashment to this degree is unfair and I hope they work on fixing this problem peacfully somehow.
The problem is all you need is the will to become a officer and you can become one. Many people let the power go to their head and become dumb-asses like in the video's posted on this thread. I am against carrying fire arms in public (homes are ok though with licence is my opinion) but I'm on the man who was carrying the gun. The officer had every right to ask to see her licence but pointing the gun before asking was where he went wrong then simply power went to his head
I wasn't really contesting whether it's legal or not (I think it pretty much is in (most of?) the US), just whether it's necessary.Citizen Snips said:
I'd posit that a big part of the reason cities can be more dangerous than rural areas is all the people carrying guns. If the people aren't all carrying guns, it magically gets a lot safer (there are quite a lot of figures to back this up; more people are murdered each week in the US than are murdered each quarter in the UK (the US has around 5x the population of the UK and 19x the number of murders, to give that a sense of scale. A greater proportion of Brits live in cities, too))
I'm also well aware that you can't just make all the guns that currently exist disappear, which means that the controlling guns in the US is never going to be as simple - or even as possible - as it is the UK (and also that some people think that an increased murder rate is an okay price to pay in order to retain the freedom to private gun ownership; I don't agree with that last part, but I appreciate the reality of the first)
Neither party was right. The guy shouldn't have tried to argue and just done what the policeman said and it wouldn't have turned into such a big ordeal. But the police officer shouldn't have reacted the way he did. It should have been more of, "Why are you carrying a gun? Do you have a permit?" Not just straight up pointing his gun at him.
While I do believe that everyone has the right to own, operate, and transport weapons, I think that people need to realize that firearms are intimidating, and people will always assume the worst if they see you carrying them.
While I do believe that everyone has the right to own, operate, and transport weapons, I think that people need to realize that firearms are intimidating, and people will always assume the worst if they see you carrying them.
No. That's far more illegal than an open carry.bob1052 said:
You are free to carry a rifle or something of equal size around wherever you want without repurcussion (assuming you don't hide it in a golf bag or whatever), but handguns and whatnot require what's called a "Carry permit". There's two types of permit, open and concealed, where the first means you can carry the gun openly while the latter means you can conceal it.
Without those permits, it is illegal to carry a handgun.