Do bronies challenge traditional masculine values?

[s0p0g]

let's just see how a great evening for your average mid to end-twenty male might look like:
meet friends at gym, work out, have a nice steak at someone's place, pop a beer or two or three or..., and watch a couple of episodes of MLP: FiM

yep, totally girly.
wait, what?


look, we play shooters and RTS, we love our movies with lots of dakka and sploshuns but no real plot, we love steak, beer, whiskey, working out, our families or just spouses, we make dirty jokes, and we watch MLP
you tell me

brohoof! /)

 

[Legion]

No, they're just man-children with an unhealthy obsession over a cartoon that's aimed at little girls. :/

A guy got warned for saying the same thing a single post down from the OP, and you decide to do it as well.

Honestly...

Not that I particularly care about MLP or Bronies either way, but I do find it odd that people use "It's a cartoon that's aimed at little girls" as an argument against it.

Call of Duty is aimed at teenage boys/men in their early twenties, does that girls/women shouldn't play it, just because they are not the target audience? Pokemon shouldn't be played by anybody above the age of 12? Disney/Pixar movies as well?

It just comes across as a very lazy, poorly thought out argument against it. Especially as non-gamers use similar arguments against adults playing computer games. So I guess it's hypocritical as well.

I can understand the irritation that comes with it seemingly being everywhere, I get pretty annoyed when I can try and find an image of a game/film/TV show, only to find a MLP version of it. Seriously, even the more obscure ones seem to have a frigging MLP fan version made. But to suggest there is something wrong with actually watching it in itself doesn't make much sense.

No, they watch a show aimed for very young girls and creepily obsess over it.

The guy is right, and doesn't even directly insult anyone, but gets warned. . .

Nowhere in the rules does it say insulting people is okay, as long as it isn't directly.

 

[rosac]

Nope, because pretty much everyone I know has no idea what a brony is. They're a fringe group of a fringe group.

 

[Pinkamena]

No, they watch a show aimed for very young girls and creepily obsess over it.

The guy is right, and doesn't even directly insult anyone, but gets warned. . .

I was surprised at that as well.

 

[Mattlore]

During the beginning of the fandom when it was just about finding out that the show is indeed, a good show, then yes. I believe that bronies were challenging social and gender norms by being forward about their legitimate love of the series. Now, not so much. The community has essentially turned from "Hey man, this show is actually good!" to using the source material as a means to fulfill their own deviant, social and sexual fantasies.

This is why I've dissociated myself from the fanbase, by in large.

 

[generals3]

A guy got warned for saying the same thing a single post down from the OP, and you decide to do it as well.

Honestly...

Not that I particularly care about MLP or Bronies either way, but I do find it odd that people use "It's a cartoon that's aimed at little girls" as an argument against it.

Call of Duty is aimed at teenage boys/men in their early twenties, does that girls/women shouldn't play it? Just because they are not the target audience? Pokemon shouldn't be played by anybody above the age of 12? Disney/Pixar movies as well?

It just comes across as a very lazy, poorly thought out argument against it. Especially as non-gamers use similar arguments against adults playing computer games. So I guess it's hypocritical as well.

But it is a very sensible argument. I mean, i have seen quite a few bronies say they like the show because it talks about friendship and such. And while that may be true it still talks about it in an extremely childish way. It's like having a uni professor teaching the same way a 1st grade teacher would. In a sense it all boils down to one point: bronies like to be communicated with as if they were kids. And that is quite weird. Surely most would agree they would find it inappropriate or insulting if someone would talk to them as if they were 8y old children. And even the "good animation" argument seems dodgy at best. Because even if they are good we're still talking about a little kids show being well animated. The animation is a way to wrap the content, if the content isn't appropriate at all than no amount of good animation will make it so.

Now off course this is my view on things and i may be terribly wrong.

 

[Moderated]

No.
1: The majority of bronies are not masculine.
2: It's just some people liking a show.

 

[Quadocky]

So all in all, white guy nerds being white guy nerds.

Which I think, we all can agree, is not a very masculine thing to do.

Well, the thing is, while its not contemporary masculinity it is generally considered to be the domain of men. Many geeky/nerdy subcultures are saturated with men.

The problem I see though is that even though they may also at the same time be considered rejects of traditional masculinity, they still conform to it.

 

[m0ng00se]

Liking My Little Pony challenges traditional masculine values about as much as liking Regular Show, or SpongeBob SquarePants.

Physical masculine values:
Muscles, good beards, body hair, doing physical stuff sometimes/always.

Social masculine values:
Putting yourself last, taking a proactive role in relationships, some more stuff I'm sure.


What kind of TV you watch doesn't really impact either of those sets? Unless you watch too much of it then the other things probably take a hit.

 

[ChristopherT]

No, not really. I think part of the idea stems from bronies being "bronies" and not just "fans of MLP". There's a difference between being a fan of something and identifying yourself by something. It's the same with "gamer" - oh, so you sit around and play violent abusive videogames out of your parents' basement? - "brony in the house" you're one of those middle aged guys who watches a little girls' show, posts pony pics all over the internet, and has a MLP FiM body pillow?

I think we're in a state of judgement and identification, rather than getting to know each other - even just for a second. We are on machines, that can help us communicate instantly with anyone around the world, and we call them retarded ****** mother-fuckers. A statement like -> "teh tittles rong its spelt MYLITTLEPONY:FRIENDSHIPISMAGIC u forgetted the :" is responded with -> "learn to SPELL YOU fucking moron" When it could just as easily be ignored. Combined with the idea of identification markers to sort everyone by preference - Brony, Gamer, Gamer Girl, ect. seems to be on the rise. There are very few identifications I can think of for older media - Trekkie, and that's all that comes to my mind. However now there seem to be newer ones popping up more often.

Which leads to judgement beings based quickly -> MLP is a kids' show, what's wrong with you
Which leads to defensive -> It's written really well and is very adult
Back and Forths -> It's for little girls, it's about ponies }{ Yeah, what of it? I love it, I'm a guy, I got hair on my chest and I love mlp, love and tolerate asshole
To Offensiveness -> only little girls and Bearded Man-Children watch MLP, those poor pathetic bastards, the girls I mean, being lumped in a group with old guys with a sick fascination with girly ponies on a girly kiddie cartoon show for girls, most likely half of which are pedos
To Defensive -> MLP:FiM is just as great as any other 'boy' cartoon there has ever been or will be. It's funny, intelligent, and teaches moral values and doesn't devalue anypony for whom they are on inside. So what if I like it? I love it. I'm challenging social acceptance! I'm a unique rebel!

That's how I see it anyways.

 

[AngloDoom]

I would consider it to be socially unacceptable for many men to say they like My Little Pony because they are men, yet some men continue to watch it without hiding it from the world regardless.

It may not be a confrontational burning of bras or "we're here, we're queer" but I'd consider that to be challenging masculine values.

 

[Duncan Belfast]

But it is a very sensible argument. I mean, i have seen quite a few bronies say they like the show because it talks about friendship and such. And while that may be true it still talks about it in an extremely childish way. It's like having a uni professor teaching the same way a 1st grade teacher would. In a sense it all boils down to one point: bronies like to be communicated with as if they were kids. And that is quite weird. Surely most would agree they would find it inappropriate or insulting if someone would talk to them as if they were 8y old children. And even the "good animation" argument seems dodgy at best. Because even if they are good we're still talking about a little kids show being well animated. The animation is a way to wrap the content, if the content isn't appropriate at all than no amount of good animation will make it so.

Now off course this is my view on things and i may be terribly wrong.

Except that it doesn't talk about it in an extremely childish way. (I need to find one of those "What we're watching/ What people think we're watching" pictures.) Even then, that is only one of many reasons people enjoy it. Well-written and likeable characters in a children's show are still well-written and likeable characters. Let's not forget the adult references in the show. No kid is going to get a reference to Apocalypse Now, The Big Lebowski, or The Exorcist.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

But it is a very sensible argument. I mean, i have seen quite a few bronies say they like the show because it talks about friendship and such. And while that may be true it still talks about it in an extremely childish way. It's like having a uni professor teaching the same way a 1st grade teacher would. In a sense it all boils down to one point: bronies like to be communicated with as if they were kids. And that is quite weird. Surely most would agree they would find it inappropriate or insulting if someone would talk to them as if they were 8y old children. And even the "good animation" argument seems dodgy at best. Because even if they are good we're still talking about a little kids show being well animated. The animation is a way to wrap the content, if the content isn't appropriate at all than no amount of good animation will make it so.

Now off course this is my view on things and i may be terribly wrong.

Except that it doesn't talk about it in an extremely childish way. (I need to find one of those "What we're watching/ What people think we're watching" pictures.) Even then, that is only one of many reasons people enjoy it. Well-written and likeable characters in a children's show are still well-written and likeable characters. Let's not forget the adult references in the show. No kid is going to get a reference to Apocalypse Now, The Big Lebowski, or The Exorcist.

You forgot the reference/direct quoting of Blazing Saddles in "Swarm of the Century". Seriously, how can people see or hear a reference like that and still think the show is meant only for preteen girls?

 

[generals3]

Except that it doesn't talk about it in an extremely childish way. (I need to find one of those "What we're watching/ What people think we're watching" pictures.) Even then, that is only one of many reasons people enjoy it. Well-written and likeable characters in a children's show are still well-written and likeable characters. Let's not forget the adult references in the show. No kid is going to get a reference to Apocalypse Now, The Big Lebowski, or The Exorcist.

Random references to adult stuff don't really mean anything. I have watched/played things when I was little which had references way over my head but it didn't suddenly make those things "more mature". Writers tend to add "easter eggs" in their work. And let's also not forget that some adults watch shows with their kids, might just as well be a gimmick for those poor sobs who have to endure kids shows for the sake of their children.

And i'm sorry but for me explaining the importance of friendship with flying sparkling cartoon ponies is like explaining math with candy and pieces of pie. Not something you'd do if you targeted adults.

And while i cannot judge the characters (didn't watch enough of it to be able to judge that) i'm sorry but it still remains a children's show. Just like you have adult series with crappy characters and good ones you have the same in children's shows. But than again, maybe i'm just a cynical old fart (not that old physically though). I'm also the one who looks with judging eyes at peers who say they like movies like Ice Age.

 

[TheDarkestDerp]

Nope.

Not remotely.

If anything, they passively... to aggressively... reinforce them. The number of times I've wanted to retch in the face of an "Enlighted bronie" when they've spewed the words to effect "See how I'm so very cool with myself and my sexuality? See! I like MLPFiM, so therefore I'm challenging traditional male roles and blah blah blee bloo".

This pathetic and self-effacing twaddle is so openly absurd I almost don't know where to begin. So, "bronies"'re open-minded and also challenging because... why? They like a cartoon.... and they're 'sensitive' guys because... why? Is this show not for you, you say? You're cool with this, which is so obviously not for REAL men like you, so that makes you a softer, yet edgier, more well-rounded man? Um, no, it doesn't child. It makes you just as sexist and terrified of your own sexuality and how others perceive you as any other guy out there. By making that statement on gender politics and praising yourself, you passively state that this show is "FOR girls" defining their gender normative role and yours. You place yourself on some imaginary pedestal for 'not adhering' to traditional values you just reinforced with your previous statement, imp. *snofts in disdain*

This manner of nonsense has been around for decades, douchebag men... correction, "Guys" trying to show their "sensitivity" by reading poetry or watching particular films and so on, so forth. It just hasn't seemed quite so sad to me until now... Ugh.

 

[Rariow]

They would've a decade or two ago (Still can't believe the 90s is now "two decades ago"...), but by this point it's become pretty mainstream for men to not have to only like SHOOT BLOODSTORM XTREME BOOMFEST: THE EXPLODENING. I guess you COULD say they pose a challenge to traditional masculine values, but those values are outdated enough it's almost like saying the current government of, say, the UK poses a challenge to traditional feudalism (Obviously using a bit of hyperbole here, but I trust people will get where I'm coming from).

That, and (some) bronies have become the equivalent to hipsters, just butting in and flaunting their love of MLP. I have no trouble whatsoever with people being bronies, talking about MLP, having a pony avatar, etc... But I've had very unpleasant cases of bronies completely derailing things that have nothing to do with MLP, like for instance, there was a whole lot of them on a certain Bastion video on YouTube because it had been linked to by some MLP fanfic as background music. The comment section was absolutely flooded by people going on about MLP, and when I posted a comment about Bastion (Not responding in any way to any MLP comment, not telling them to cut it off, just quoting two lines from Bastion), I got no less than six responses being angry at me for "ruining the MLP conversation".

I guess that was a bit long-winded but my case is: You can't really issue a reasonable challenge to a set of established values unless you behave reasonably maturely about it. I know that the majority of MLP fans are reasonable people who'll limit their discussion of MLP on non-MLP related things to a reference and an avatar, but it's that minority who acts like they're some godly caste that makes the entirety of the brony community look like annoying, obnoxious and inconsiderate people. To be completely honest, kinda reminds me of the "PC master race" bunch, making every PC gamer look like an elitist asshole. As long as those people are around, bronies will be seen as immature and annoying, which impedes them from making any real challenge to traditional masculine values.

 

[DugMachine]

I doubt MLP is changing the traditional masculine values. Bronies are already a niche crowd on the internet who tend to stick to themselves.

That being said, It's my belief that the craze over the show is because it's aimed at children, preferably young girls and "men" picked it up to seem unique, a form of rebellion if you will.

Anyways, masculine values are changing on their own because we're becoming more progressive as a whole. With the internet, cultures are mixing like never before and out of this we get men (including myself) who are not afraid to be 'emotional', a thing that was frowned upon not even a few years ago.