Do people care about owning content yet?

[CyberKnight]

Most of the time it's a non-issue. As for being put out of business I'd hope for a grace period to download all my titles. Suffice to say those titles that can't be re-downloaded I have the installer files backed up to a network hard drive.

So, for something like Microsoft's killing of Original Xbox DLC, where you can't download a backup (and this isn't even a case of a company going out of business; they've just up and decided to take it away -- and earlier than advertised, even)?

For loaning and reselling- it's not my problem. I tend to let others borrow a game or two from my console collection and that's it (I don't loan PC games in case they steal my key).

It'll be your problem if the next console is all-digital. (I've heard that prophecy many times. I sure hope it doesn't come to pass -- in fact, I seriously doubt it will -- but it's one of those comments I hear from the pro-digital camp that gets my hackles up.)

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Most of the time it's a non-issue. As for being put out of business I'd hope for a grace period to download all my titles. Suffice to say those titles that can't be re-downloaded I have the installer files backed up to a network hard drive.

So, for something like Microsoft's killing of Original Xbox DLC, where you can't download a backup (and this isn't even a case of a company going out of business; they've just up and decided to take it away -- and earlier than advertised, even)?

For loaning and reselling- it's not my problem. I tend to let others borrow a game or two from my console collection and that's it (I don't loan PC games in case they steal my key).

It'll be your problem if the next console is all-digital. (I've heard that prophecy many times. I sure hope it doesn't come to pass -- in fact, I seriously doubt it will -- but it's one of those comments I hear from the pro-digital camp that gets my hackles up.)

In the first point that company would quickly lose the support of many for their download services. The other problem with many console downloads is that having an entire game on their puny hard drives is hard to manage. With a PC I can shift data around different devices and keep images for a long time. For instance I don't know where my Starcraft discs went, but have had their images preserved for many years on various hard drives.


Still depends on the delivery of "all digital". We're making assumptions based off of the current technologies, which makes sense, but we could also be going towards cloud computing. At least some of those cloud services do allow rentals and borrowing. I would be hesitant in those instances, but getting angry doesn't sound productive.

 

[ethaninja]

I just miss the good ol days where everything was simple. You would put the disc in, install it, and play. That was the end of it all. Now days you gotta jump through these bloody hoops just to get to enjoy yourself. Which is hardly ever because of the shit it dump all over it.

 

[mightybozz]

Your description of leasing the game instead of buying it is almost right. Really though it's more like you've just got a licence from the company to play their game for a bit until they decide to terminate it. This gives all the power to the companies, and consumer protection is knackered.
Unfortunately it will take most politicians ages to even realise people can download full games like this and get ripped off like we do, so don't expect conventional legal protection anytime soon.

Me, I've only ever downloaded one thing, and that was Empire Total War. Had to sit in a cafe for hours for that to get done, and I'll never sign into steam again, because it will stop me playing Empire unless I give it more hours to download updates. I don't care about them! I want the game I paid for, and if I choose to download updates I will.

 

[djpsykotiko]

I'm for physical copies of games. Sure, most of them just sit on the shelf collecting dust, but at least I'm not expected to waste space on my hard-drive for them. Plus, not everyone has the ability to buy games online. I'm not about to spend $100 on a wireless adapter for my X-Box360 just to be able to pay more for extra content that should have been included in the games in the first place.

Owning the actual disc and case gives you a feeling of ownership of something. all you own with a digital purchase is a authentication code or rights to download it.

 

[chromewarriorXIII]

I always prefer to have a hard copy that I can display for my games. Although occasionally, I do wish I could just install a couple of my games on my PS3 so that I wouldn't have to get up and change the disk. But I love looking up at my shelf and seeing my games proudly displayed, and that's something I can't get with digital distribution.

 

[CyberKnight]

Still depends on the delivery of "all digital". We're making assumptions based off of the current technologies, which makes sense, but we could also be going towards cloud computing. At least some of those cloud services do allow rentals and borrowing. I would be hesitant in those instances, but getting angry doesn't sound productive.

Current technologies and the history of their progression -- I'm looking at where we are (or at least what I have available in my house) compared to where we were 10 years ago, and yes, guessing where we might be in another few years based on that. When you say "cloud services", the first thing I thought of was that OnLive service that was introduced at last year's E3. (I don't know if that's what you were thinking of, but...) And my first thought is, "No way." My internet connection may be a bit faster today than it was 10 years ago, but even today, I have trouble maintaining a simple chat session while playing a FPS without excessive lag -- there's no way I would trust the entirety of my gaming (single- and multi-player, and what I consider today online and offline) to that less-than-100% connection.

Add to that the fact that my ISP now puts a limit on how much data I can use in a month, and saying I have to shift bringing in bits on a disc through my front door (unlimited access to me) to bringing them in over a pipe that counts against my monthly allotment (and because it's "cloud-based", I bring them in not just once, but every time I care to access the content in question)? While I'm sure my ISP would love to collect the fees for my going over that bandwidth cap, I have no desire to pay even more for the same content.

Sure, there may be some game-changing (no pun intended) breakthrough in internet service that makes fast, thick, 100% reliable, unlimited data pipes to the home a reality (a couple companies, probably most notably Verizon, are trying to bring fiber directly to more homes; and Google just announced they want to get in on the deal, too), but it might not be any more successful than broadband over power lines (a concept that promised to get high-speed internet everywhere, that went nowhere).

Getting angry alone isn't productive. Discussing the issues, however, is; that's the point of starting the thread.

 

[Irridium]

I always try to buy from a store.

Mainly because if I buy everything digital, and need to connect to some server to play, when (not if) it goes down, I won't be able to play the game ever again.

And besides, saying its a "hassle" to change disks is quite possibly the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

It takes just a couple of seconds, there is nothing wrong at all with changing disks. If you find its a hassle to take about 3 seconds out of your day to change a disk then you are one really, really lazy bastard.

Whats next, are people going to complain that they have feed themselves?

And I also don't like the whole "convenience" thing. I don't want convenience. All it will do is turn me into a lazy person. I like it to an extent, but I don't like how people are trying to make my life convenient in every way possible. I like doing things for myself. I like going out and buying stuff myself. It also helps you tolerate people better, which lots of people need to do.

 

[Dimbo_Sama]

Steam has the format DOWN PAT.

But I still prefer having hard copies, I still have to redownload all my old Steam games and I couldn't be fucked.

 

[CyberKnight]

From what I've heard (I haven't used it myself), Steam does some things right. But -- well, since I'm not sure, I'll ask some questions:

Do you still have to sign in to the service with your Steam account to play the game? What happens if Steam (or just your connection to the Steam service) goes down?

If you bought two games on Steam, is it even possible for you to play game A on your PC, and for your housemate (spouse/significant other/roommate/sibling/friend/etc.) to borrow game B and play it on their PC (or even your spare PC)?

And besides, saying its a "hassle" to change disks is quite possibly the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

It takes just a couple of seconds, there is nothing wrong at all with changing disks. If you find its a hassle to take about 3 seconds out of your day to change a disk then you are one really, really lazy bastard.

Whats next, are people going to complain that they have feed themselves?

This kind of reminded me of Penny Arcade's Tycho's mini-rant on how people got all up-in-arms over the disc-swapping in Mass Effect 2 [http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/1/27/gwaihir-house/]. But yeah, I totally agree. I have to say I did see the appeal when I first installed a Genesis emulator on my modded Xbox 1 to play all my old Genesis games; I did think it was kind of cool to be able to select a game from an on-screen menu rather than standing at my shelf of DVD cases, but that's about it. Is swapping discs such a chore that eliminating it is a must-have? Heck no.

 

[Irridium]

From what I've heard (I haven't used it myself), Steam does some things right. But -- well, since I'm not sure, I'll ask some questions:

Do you still have to sign in to the service with your Steam account to play the game? What happens if Steam (or just your connection to the Steam service) goes down?

If you bought two games on Steam, is it even possible for you to play game A on your PC, and for your housemate (spouse/significant other/roommate/sibling/friend/etc.) to borrow game B and play it on their PC (or even your spare PC)?

Well, to answer your first question, from personal experience if your connection craps out or Steam is down, you can still play your games, you just can't go online with them. Even if you don't have it in Offline mode, you can still play if your not connected. But you do need to be signed in to play any game you bought off Steam. But like I said, even if your connection with it dies you can still play the games, just not online.

And as for your second question, no, its not possible, at least its not possible for you both to play at the same time. If you play game A for a bit, then stop, you can sign in to steam on the other computer, download game B onto there, and let your friend play, but thats pretty impracticle and opens up a whole range of problems, like if your playing game A and your friend is trying to playing game B at the same time as you...

You can gift games to friends, where you buy a game and send it to them, but you can't play it on your PC, and they also need Steam for that.

 

[CyberKnight]

From what I've heard (I haven't used it myself), Steam does some things right. But -- well, since I'm not sure, I'll ask some questions:

Do you still have to sign in to the service with your Steam account to play the game? What happens if Steam (or just your connection to the Steam service) goes down?

If you bought two games on Steam, is it even possible for you to play game A on your PC, and for your housemate (spouse/significant other/roommate/sibling/friend/etc.) to borrow game B and play it on their PC (or even your spare PC)?

Well, to answer your first question, from personal experience if your connection craps out or Steam is down, you can still play your games, you just can't go online with them. Even if you don't have it in Offline mode, you can still play if your not connected. But you do need to be signed in to play any game you bought off Steam. But like I said, even if your connection with it dies you can still play the games, just not online.

And as for your second question, no, its not possible, at least its not possible for you both to play at the same time. If you play game A for a bit, then stop, you can sign in to steam on the other computer, download game B onto there, and let your friend play, but thats pretty impracticle and opens up a whole range of problems, like if your playing game A and your friend is trying to playing game B at the same time as you...

You can gift games to friends, where you buy a game and send it to them, but you can't play it on your PC, and they also need Steam for that.

Thanks for the info (and another look at your avatar; I could stare at that dancing Karateka dude all day).

Pretty much as I've heard, Valve has done a lot to make Steam as usable and friendly as possible. But still, when it comes down to it, it still is more restrictive than what you get from a physical disc.

Although DRM is trying to make inroads into screwing that up, too...

 

[CyberKnight]

I can lend it, if I'm willing to lend my password. which I'm not.

Yeah, I don't really count that. Technically, I could lend my XBLA games to my friend, too, by loaning him my Xbox Live account. Even if that wasn't a violation of the Xbox Terms of Service, I wouldn't do that.

I had no problem loaning him my disc of Left 4 Dead for a month, though.

And here's the thing companies might want to take notice of, while they're busy innovating ways to keep us from doing that:

When the demo came out, then when I first showed him the full game, and even when I brought the game to his place and we played it together a couple of times, he wasn't all that impressed. But he had some down time and wanted to borrow it. He certainly wasn't going to buy it, and he wasn't likely to spend any money renting it, either. But I could let him borrow my copy. And he's grown to like it more, so that he might be picking up his own copy.

Check it out, a potential sale.

As for the DLC, at least in this case, when you release it free on the PC and try to charge me $7 on the 360, I vote with my wallet by keeping it closed. (I don't care whose fault that is; doesn't change the fact that I feel shafted, and if you're not going to at least provide the lubricant...)

 

[TehJammers]

I don't really care either way between owning a physical copy or DLC.

For me, it's whether I've paid for the game or if I'm playing a pirate copy. I feel a tinge of self-righteous pride when know my Steam friends can see that I'm playing a legit game.

Of course, this is annoying if I buy a physical disk and it doesn't authenticate through steam, like Prototype, and it comes up as non-steam anyway.

Actually yea, I prefer digital distribution (namely Steam) because it means people can see that I'm no pirate.

 

[CyberKnight]

Here are my thoughts on the issue, brace for potential rambling.

I always prefer to have a tangible copy. In fact, I do not think I own a game on "digital distribution" that I could have gotten on hard copy. Of course, there are a few exceptoins, the XBLA remake of Banjo Kazooie was really well done and I look forward to downloading the Perfect Dark remake as well.

I'd like to say I always buy from a store, but that is not entirely the case. When I got my new PC I bought the Valve Anthology, which IIRC included every game Valve had made up until after Left 4 Dead. It was $100. I figured since Left 4 Dead is $50 anyway, getting Valve's entire back catalogue for $50 isn't so bad. I do not regret this purchase.

Basically what I am saying is I am a hypocrite. I prefer physical copies, but sometimes a digital title will interest me and I will put down the $2 or whatever to play it. I am pretty weak willed.

That said, I bet all of you strict anti-digital distribution nuts have a few titles you don't own physically.

I hear what you're saying, mostly because I'm pretty much the same. Do I think digital distribution is full of problems? Yes. Do I own XBLA titles and DLC? Yes. I know the restrictions and things that suck about digital distribution, and in some cases, I decide to (grudgingly) accept them and buy the content anyway, because I decide I want the content in question, that's how it's being sold, and, given my only options of getting it as offered or not getting it at all, I've chosen to buy the product.

Is it hypocrisy to point out the problems with DD, then, and say how I'd want things to be better? I don't think so, any more than it is to, say, buy a larger hard drive for the 360 because I need the space, but still admonish Microsoft for grossly overcharging for storage.

 

[Nutcase]

As a rule I will only buy anything at Steam, D2D etc. if it's less than $5 per game. Since they want to do rentals, they deserve rental money and no more.

And when the game is available at Good Old Games, I'm happy to pay a few bucks extra to get it there. Fully functional install package you can backup and use later, no DRM whatsoever, not even a disk check = win. *That* is every bit as good as physical media.

 

[Low Key]

Wishful thinking, but I'd assume as digital distribution gets more popular, there might be a way to buy online, then burn the data to discs yourself. That way, you'll always have a hard copy in case some freak accident happens online. Perhaps they'll be able to write in code that lets consoles know it's legit. I mean hey, pirates already burn games. So long as the game is purchased, I don't see why companies wouldn't let people burn a copy. At least in the computer world, Windows does a decent job of identifying pirated copies of their OS's. I don't see why that couldn't transfer over to gaming.

Either that or games should be made to order. After the initial pre-orders, the company won't make anymore discs, forcing people to either buy early and at full price to get the hard copies they want, or buy the digital copy. That way people can have the chance at obtaining a hard copy and digital distribution will still be dominant.

 

[CyberKnight]

Wishful thinking, but I'd assume as digital distribution gets more popular, there might be a way to buy online, then burn the data to discs yourself. That way, you'll always have a hard copy in case some freak accident happens online. Perhaps they'll be able to write in code that lets consoles know it's legit. I mean hey, pirates already burn games. So long as the game is purchased, I don't see why companies wouldn't let people burn a copy. At least in the computer world, Windows does a decent job of identifying pirated copies of their OS's. I don't see why that couldn't transfer over to gaming.

Either that or games should be made to order. After the initial pre-orders, the company won't make anymore discs, forcing people to either buy early and at full price to get the hard copies they want, or buy the digital copy. That way people can have the chance at obtaining a hard copy and digital distribution will still be dominant.

So would that mean the only people who could resell/trade/loan their games were the preorder folks? Seems that would make those discs more valuable over time, since they are now a more "limited edition". That would be about as effective at killing the second-hand market as total DD. Good for the corporations, bad for consumers. Now we're back to the single, corporation-controlled marketplace with fixed prices. No competition = less incentive to lower prices.