Do we need more female protagonists, or just more interesting ones?

[Crazzy349]

I am up for more female protagonists as much as anyone, but I want a character with depth regardless of gender, and if the scales are far tipped either way, I wouldn't care to much as long as they are well written and varied. I'd prefer one well written male character then 100 badly written "empowered" female ones. BUT BEFORE YOU CURSE MY VERY SOUL TO BE DOOMED TO WALK THE PITS OF TARTARUS, hear out my reasoning. I think the majority of you would agree that as for as many Joels, Lora Crofts, and Terras we get, there are a thousand Kratoeses, Hellers, Lightnings, and generic space marine #117s. I can remember Joel's trip across America with Ellie, Lora's adventures, Terra's and the Returner's struggles more vividly and with more detail, then I can remember anything about a boring character with a tragic past/predestined future and their trials.

What I think the issue is, and brace yourself for my outstanding originality, is that we don't have many INTERESTING protagonists, Male or Female. I don't necessary blame writers for this lack though, but the money hungry and focus group using publishers for this. Face it, samey things and sex sales, and publishers know that. they sell a lot to horny teens and basement dwellers alike. I wish we could change their minds. If we lived in a great world and we could start getting more interesting stories with more varied characters then the gap between male and female protagonists would slowly decrease, I have no proof, but that's my Idea. I could be wrong, and am entirely convince-able that I am.

With the recent increase of Internet Feminists and White Knights of shining fingers, I know at this point I have been labeled a myriad of things, but lets try not to name call and try to have a nice discussion of the topic at hand. so, What do you think?


Also I know that there are posts similar to this, but Id just like to see new ideas.

 

[Erttheking]

.....You may have a point there. Really, sexism in gaming is a symptom of a much bigger problem when you stop and think about it. IE, writing in gaming kinda sucks. Something to think about.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think we need more Samoan deuteragonists. The lack of Samoan deuteragonists is disturbing.

 

[Elfgore]

We just need better characters in general. Women who aren't whatever people claim they are, I really don't know the big deal about them. Feel free to explain it. And men who are actually interesting and not just boring cardboard cutouts of each other.

 

[dyre]

Yeah, it's been my stance that once more developers start having actual standards for their writing, we'll have better characters across the board, male and female. We might still have numerically more male protagonists given the current gaming demographic, but the female characters will be well-written characters with actual personalities instead of crappy teenage fantasies. The whole "poor portrayal of females" issue is merely a symptom of "most game writers can't write for shit" mixed with "developers think that we're all pervy 15 year olds." Once the medium matures, so will the female characters.

Though I must say I wouldn't include Lara as an "interesting protagonist;" she's a rather dull character whose only characterization is that she's reasonably capable of reacting to problems. A capable female protagonist, but not a wel-written or interesting one. Perhaps Bioshock's Elizabeth is a better example.

 

[Zhukov]

I'm just gonna be That Guy and say "both".

Y'know, the reason I argue that more female protagonists would be a good thing is not because the lack thereof offends or marginalises women (that might be the case, but if so then it's kinda up to them to say so. I can't be offended on their behalf.) Rather, it's just because I would just like to see more variety. I would argue for more non-white protagonists for the same reason.

For whatever it's worth, I think the situation may be improving, at least a wee bit. Judging by comments made by the writers behind Dragon Age, Borderlands (of all things) and The Last of Us, the message is getting through, somehow.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

One of the big problems both with games and the media in general is because white, heterosexual males are the "default" hero for any story. Most stories that aren't specifically ABOUT race or gender have a white, heterosexual male as the lead. Even though in most stories that don't come out the race or gender or sexual orientation of the character doesn't matter, they're still white, heterosexual males.

And yes, there are plenty of stories that don't hinge on any of those things. Hell look at the remake of Annie coming out, and I just heard the first black Phantom of the Opera for the official broadway troupe was just recently cast. Yes it can be argued that because of the time periods or locations of some movies the race and gender choices are limited, but did Jake Sully in Avatar HAVE to be white, or male, or straight? He was a big tall blue thing with a tail most of the movie, I don't think that would have mattered. And I'm sure alien species can be gay too, and surely someday we can get to a point where even generally straight audiences can look upon gay couples being in love without going "ew." With how much the gay community loves Disney movies it's clear they have no trouble coping with being exposed to straight couples.

As for examples of this in video games, Mass Effect and Saints Row let you be any race, gender, or color you want and the story stays the same the whole time with no hitches. Really, there are very few stories where this ACTUALLY matters. Even in stories where perhaps in that time period there wouldn't be a female or minority in a high-ranking position you could just take some artist's license and ignore it. That's what Doctor Who did when they brought Martha Jones to Elizabethan England. I think there was only one episode where Martha's race actually had a bit of bearing on the plot, and that's because a character's arc was SPECIFICALLY about dealing with learning that the future has female doctors and people of color are treated equally.

So personally, I'd rather see just more female representation in general. If we wait until we know a story's going to be a golden goose before deciding to heavily involve females then that's just a rather backwards way of creating. Yes having good quality writing is always a plus, whether male or female characters are involved. But the reality is not EVERY script is going to be perfect, and nor will they ever be. So the goal we should aim for is not immediately going for the white, brown-haired 30-something male with stubble every single time we need a new protagonist or player-character.

 

[Vegosiux]

One of the big problems both with games and the media in general is because white, heterosexual males are the "default" hero for any story. Most stories that aren't specifically ABOUT race or gender have a white, heterosexual male as the lead. Even though in most stories that don't come out the race or gender or sexual orientation of the character doesn't matter, they're still white, heterosexual males.

Something's going to be considered "default" no matter how things change, there's always going to be some sort of a baseline point of comparison. So I guess this debate is around to stay for quite a while, in principle, and only differ in who's currently upset.

 

[Autumnflame]

I like games where you can pick either gender and it has no real influence upon the game.

its not the gender, race, sexuality of the character.

but the character themselves that makes them great. who they are and what they do.

not just their apperance

 

[DementedSheep]

Both but yes even if they aren't brilliantly written it would still be a lot better if there more of them and not just as protagonists. If you had more some of them are going better than others so you'll likely get more interesting ones as well. You don't need a reason to have a female character but at the general attitude seems to be that everyone one is male unless you want some tits, a gendered plot or to illicit pity because for some reason people are a hell of lot more forgiving to deadweight women than they are men. I'm sick to death of women just not being there as active participants. Even in stuff with female protagonist you tend male majority casts because its seems people can stomach the odd active female character just so long as they are "odd".

Edit: Having more helps having more interesting as well simply because if you have more female characters you have freedom with them because they are now not the sole representative of women. How they act and how they treated is not seen as statement about women in general unless you make all of them like that.

 

[LetalisK]

Yeah, it's been my stance that once more developers start having actual standards for their writing, we'll have better characters across the board, male and female. We might still have numerically more male protagonists given the current gaming demographic, but the female characters will be well-written characters with actual personalities instead of crappy teenage fantasies. The whole "poor portrayal of females" issue is merely a symptom of "most game writers can't write for shit" mixed with "developers think that we're all pervy 15 year olds." Once the medium matures, so will the female characters.

Though I must say I wouldn't include Lara as an "interesting protagonist;" she's a rather dull character whose only characterization is that she's reasonably capable of reacting to problems. A capable female protagonist, but not a wel-written or interesting one. Perhaps Bioshock's Elizabeth is a better example.

I think Lara was great up until about the half way point when she was almost forgotten as a character and simply used as a vehicle to tell the stories of her cohorts. Still good, but no Elizabeth.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I'm on board with the idea that we need more gelatinous cube protagonists.

It would probably be less offensive to some gamers than the idea that we needs more female, racially or sexually diverse characters.

Yes, more female characters would be nice and so would more complex and well-written characters.
I don't understand why so many people seem to think that these two are mutually exclusive.

I'm just gonna be That Guy and say "both".

Spoiler

 

[Suhi89]

You can always want better written protagonists. If representation were completely 50:50 we would still be demanding better characters. However, that's quite a difficult problem to solve. Having more diverse characters is much easier. So while we're working on getting better writing in video games, why not have more female or black or gay protagonists. Is our society really so sexist, racist and homophobic that people wouldn't want to play these games? I don't think so. However

-snip-

One of the big problems both with games and the media in general is because white, heterosexual males are the "default" hero for any story. Most stories that aren't specifically ABOUT race or gender have a white, heterosexual male as the lead. Even though in most stories that don't come out the race or gender or sexual orientation of the character doesn't matter, they're still white, heterosexual males.

Whilst I agree entirely with your general point, we live in a society where the majority of people are white and heterosexual. If you lived in India, the default in the media would be Indian, in Japan, Japenese. Even if our media better reflected actual society, which I acknowledge that it doesn't and should, then white and heterosexual would still be the default.

 

[Andy Shandy]

Both would be the ideal scenario.

I mean, just from a representation of who plays or is involved in gaming, there should be more female protagonists. Same with different races/sexualities too.

And, of course, you always want your characters to be more interesting.

If I had to pick one, situation the way it is at the moment though, I would pick more over more interesting.

 

[krazykidd]

You know, i realised that it's just recently that i notice if chacter is male or female. I don't care about gender of my protagonist. Every character could be female if they wanted to, and it wouldn't change a thing for me . As well as every character could be male and i wouldn't give a shit personally, as long as the game is fun .

Instead of complaining that developpers make better female characters, i think the industry could use new blood from people who have a problem with the way things are and make female characters the way they want . Nothing good is going to come out of forcing devs to change their ways.

 

[MetalShadowChaos]

Deciding a sex for a character can be hard, but usually it just sort of ends up forming as you make the character. It seems wrong to me to go from the start 'we need to ad a female/male/black/white/gay/straight character now'. Think about what you want the character to actually be, what you want them to do in context and then it should just sort of make sense what their sex should be.

That said, I'm not against the 'lets make them X because we can and it would be cool' attitude. After all, if it isn't important and you haven't gotten a sense of what the character should be in that regard, they can pretty much be anything.

So I guess it's down to prioritising making the character you want to make rather than making them to fit a specific quota. Make good characters first, then good female characters will come from that naturally.

 

[heroicbob]

I get a little annoyed when people say they think blank slate characters like commander Shepard are good characters when they themselves crafted them into a character they would like.

I dont think it matters that female characters are usually supporting characters its usually the supporting characters who get all the character development for example alyx vance, glados or ellie

Elizabeth I think is a bad example because she follows the female character trope of constantly needing to be rescued.

 

[JET1971]

I find the best female game character is Alex Vance from Half Life 2 +episodes. She may not be the protagonist but she is definitely female and not sexualized. If more female protagonists are done it would be nice to see them created in that vein of female, strong, and yet vulnerable like a human would be like after helping her out from under the stalker after the train crash in Episode 1. I am male and I would need to take a breather after being trapped under that thing.

As for protagonists in general I would prefer to see more vulnerabilities and weakness rather than "god mode" without the invulnerability to taking damage. Not sure how that can be done without making it stupid like slowing reaction times or increasing targeting speed so the player overreacts in situations the character is supposed to be nervous or scared in. Only thing I can think of is building the story and character to be that way.

 

[Nazulu]

I don't believe you're gonna get more of any thing till all the big greedy company's just die. That's if you want more in triple A games. The best work is created when they get all the right talents in the right places and they have plenty of creative freedom. With this you'll get far more diversity than just more female protagonists.