Do you believe in ghosts or the paranormal?
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Except there is actual evidence for those (or at least dark matter and the expanding universe, not sure about wormholes). For example dark matter: we can't actually see it but we know it exists because we can observe it interacting with our world. We can observe it through something called "lensing". Lensing is a phenomena created by gravity. When light passes close by an object with a strong gravitational pull (such as a star) it is bent. We can determine how much the light will be bent if we know the mass of the object. Astronomers/cosmologists have observed lensing around objects where the light is being bent more than it should be based on the mass of that object. Therefore we can infere that something else is there adding mass that we cannot see. There is no direct evidence yet and this is why scientists still aren't sure what exactly dark matter is but we know for sure something is there affecting the lensing.soulfire130 said:
I think dark matter is actually the perfect example for this thread. Here is something we cannot see and still do not know what it is but yet we know it exists, we see it interacting with our world in a reliable and mathmatically demonstrable way. Compare that to ghosts that people claim to see yet we have no evidence for outside of personal experience (which is not evidence at all). There has been no observation of ghosts interacting with our world, there is no theory or hypothesis that suggests how they might, there is no math to demonstrate this, there is no reliability.
That is indeed quite a coincidence, but it's hardly proof of anything.Winthrop said:
First of all, that lady wasn't someone who claimed to be a psychic. All she did was dream about her lottery-ticket.
I mean, how many people do you think dream of their lottery number and large sums of money after they've bought a lottery ticket? One of them would be bound to win something after a while. The impressive part was that the dream made her buy another ticket with the same numbers; but I'm going to write that down as a coincidence until things like that starts happening regularly.
It is scary. The idea of something that can hurt me but I have no way of hurting it back is pretty scary. The video does look pretty fake. The thing at the end looks like an abomination from the Dragon Age games. I have never experienced any paranormal activity and I hope to keep it that way.Julianking93 said:
I don't believe in anything I don't see any reason to believe in. Think of Easter Bunny, you're familiar with the concept but there's nothing to indicate that it actually exists. This is my view on the paranormal (which includes but is not limited to ghosts, soul, god etc)
Probably not in this dimension (dimensions exist right?) but another one. Maybe there is in fact an organism that shares many traits as a ghost somewhere in the universe. Maybe they are scared of humans.
This thread makes me sad 
You would think in this day and age people would have a bit more intelligence than believing in this sort of shit.
Before people start telling me their experiences and/or giving me pseudo-scientific theories on ghosts remember:
The human brain is what controls you and your personality. If you get a bang on the head it can drastically change your personality, it can literally turn you into a different person.
so how the fuck can your personality still exist when your brain is dead??
(hint: the answer is it can't) Before people say it's your soul or whatever, why do we have a brain then? and why does brain damage change your personality if that is decided by your soul?
There are a million other reasons believing in ghosts means your being stupid, but that one alone beats any and every argument you all have. Well, that and the fact we know why people believe in ghosts! (A lot of reasons, such as this-> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3046179.stm , conformation bias, pareidolia, tiredness...etc)
EDIT: Silly, naive, me. I forgot to add one of the biggest reasons people 'believe'. ££'s, $$'s or whatever your local currency. Whenever there are stupid people, there are smarter people ready to exploit them.
BTW, on the flat earth myth. This had probably been said, but anyway:
1. Since the ancient Greeks (at least, maybe earlier) we have known the earth is round.
2. Pretending scientists ever thought the world was flat, they would (quite rightly) only change their minds when someone proved it wasn't flat, or rather provided evidence that meant that a spherical earth was more likely than a flat one. (That is a good thing. If I say tomorrow the world is actually a cube I better have some damn good evidence to back it up.)
3. Again pretending science ever believed in a flat earth, surely the fact scientists are willing to change their views when new evidence is found shows that if there was evidence for ghosts, science would acknowledge it!
tl;dr Stop being silly, do some research on why human perception is actually very easily fooled before you say ghosts do/might exist.
And I know this has been said but it's worth repeating,
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
You would think in this day and age people would have a bit more intelligence than believing in this sort of shit. Before people start telling me their experiences and/or giving me pseudo-scientific theories on ghosts remember:
The human brain is what controls you and your personality. If you get a bang on the head it can drastically change your personality, it can literally turn you into a different person.
so how the fuck can your personality still exist when your brain is dead??
(hint: the answer is it can't) Before people say it's your soul or whatever, why do we have a brain then? and why does brain damage change your personality if that is decided by your soul?
There are a million other reasons believing in ghosts means your being stupid, but that one alone beats any and every argument you all have. Well, that and the fact we know why people believe in ghosts! (A lot of reasons, such as this-> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3046179.stm , conformation bias, pareidolia, tiredness...etc)
EDIT: Silly, naive, me. I forgot to add one of the biggest reasons people 'believe'. ££'s, $$'s or whatever your local currency. Whenever there are stupid people, there are smarter people ready to exploit them.
BTW, on the flat earth myth. This had probably been said, but anyway:
1. Since the ancient Greeks (at least, maybe earlier) we have known the earth is round.
2. Pretending scientists ever thought the world was flat, they would (quite rightly) only change their minds when someone proved it wasn't flat, or rather provided evidence that meant that a spherical earth was more likely than a flat one. (That is a good thing. If I say tomorrow the world is actually a cube I better have some damn good evidence to back it up.)
3. Again pretending science ever believed in a flat earth, surely the fact scientists are willing to change their views when new evidence is found shows that if there was evidence for ghosts, science would acknowledge it!
tl;dr Stop being silly, do some research on why human perception is actually very easily fooled before you say ghosts do/might exist.
And I know this has been said but it's worth repeating,
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
now I don't believe in ghosts in the ead sprites way I think that just has something to do with alternate dimensions and I have had three experiences
1. I was like 9 or 10 and was going home from school for the day when all of a sudden my desk starts shaking violently none of the other desks moved an inch, but all of a sudden the math book I had forgotten plops out onto the ground I walk back and check the whole desk and the only other person in that room was the teacher who was sitting at his desk on the far side of the room.
2. This was in Junior high and I was standing on the corner of a busy cross street when I feel a strong tug on the back of my shirt throwing me backwards and I was the only person there, when this kid riding a bike talking on his phone rides and odds are he would have knocked me into oncoming traffic, now I know that sounds far-fetched but I figured I would toss it in here too
3. I was in palm springs(my grandpa owns a condo there) and me and family were leaving to do something and I walk back into the house to get my coat, turn the lights on and there is this ghostly figure wearing leather clothing with war paint just standing there with this look of menace and I just felt this kind of "if I could I would cut you like a trout" kind of vibe coming off him, later I found out that the condo was built on Indian land.
and the way I look at it out of the millions of stories has to be right for ghosts to be real.
1. I was like 9 or 10 and was going home from school for the day when all of a sudden my desk starts shaking violently none of the other desks moved an inch, but all of a sudden the math book I had forgotten plops out onto the ground I walk back and check the whole desk and the only other person in that room was the teacher who was sitting at his desk on the far side of the room.
2. This was in Junior high and I was standing on the corner of a busy cross street when I feel a strong tug on the back of my shirt throwing me backwards and I was the only person there, when this kid riding a bike talking on his phone rides and odds are he would have knocked me into oncoming traffic, now I know that sounds far-fetched but I figured I would toss it in here too
3. I was in palm springs(my grandpa owns a condo there) and me and family were leaving to do something and I walk back into the house to get my coat, turn the lights on and there is this ghostly figure wearing leather clothing with war paint just standing there with this look of menace and I just felt this kind of "if I could I would cut you like a trout" kind of vibe coming off him, later I found out that the condo was built on Indian land.
and the way I look at it out of the millions of stories has to be right for ghosts to be real.
Yes i can refute that quite easily using my previous point of OUR BRAIN LIES TO US, OUR SENSES ARE FLAWED (my apologies for the caps lock but it may actually sink in this way).mandaforever said:
And also you still havent answered my question how the original dude not bending over backwards to avoid from hurting your feelings effects the vaildity of his arguements, the point your provided is a massive leap in logic, but Ill play with it anyway- people like him and I have heard all of this arguement before, looked at them, assessed them, found the glaring great holes in them and refuted them, and refuted them time and time again.
Also got to say "Welcome To The Internet, Warning:Not For Those of A Sensitive Disposition".
EDIT= I am not close minded, I just make sure that my brain can't fall out.
Well fair enough, to my defence I posted late (atleast where I live) so I wasn't thinking straight, however, while science doesn't actually disprove all religion, it disproves many global events described in the bible etc like a global flood. But I rarely these days use science in my religion debates, when simple logic is so much better^^rutger5000 said:
But still, about the psychic, I can't say excactly what it was about, but seeing it with my own eyes I believe in it.
Here's just something for you skeptics. If it is proven that some animals, like dogs, have a sixth sense, why can't some humans have developed this sense or evolved to have it? If you believe in the whole evolution thing. If you believe in evolution, like I, you'd realise the brain will grown stronger over time therefore developing in more areas and perhaps developing a sixth sense, the sensing of approaching danger, foresight or sensing the paranormal. If dogs have been scientifically proven to have this ability, why can't some humans have evolved to have it?
I am seeing a lot of 'logic' being thrown around. A lot of people saying herp-a-derp science! Just to clarify, science can nor prove, nor disapprove the paranormal, because it is just that, out of the ordinary. Scientists say it is UNLIKELY for ghosts and spirits and so forth, but they have no way to disapprove of their existence.
People talking about psychics is a completely different matter. I am sceptical about some psychics, some of them throw around bull crap for sure, spiritual doctors however have been known as an art and a rare one at that and have been treasured by African tribes and so on. My mother has been told she is extremely sensitive to ghosts, but she doesn't see them at all, she is just told she has a man who watches over her to protect her from the chains she is dragging all linked to spirits of the past. She says she has seen this man in her dreams and that is name is Edward and that he likes to watch over my dad as well in his current time of need.
Believe what you will about that but dogs have sixth senses, humans may well evolve or have all ready evolved to have some sensitivity to it and disregard what you will about spirits and ghosts but spend a night in my house when it decides to stop being quiet. I promise you, you could try and blag to yourself that it is pipes or the wind, but even you would know deep down that it couldn't have been so.
I am seeing a lot of 'logic' being thrown around. A lot of people saying herp-a-derp science! Just to clarify, science can nor prove, nor disapprove the paranormal, because it is just that, out of the ordinary. Scientists say it is UNLIKELY for ghosts and spirits and so forth, but they have no way to disapprove of their existence.
People talking about psychics is a completely different matter. I am sceptical about some psychics, some of them throw around bull crap for sure, spiritual doctors however have been known as an art and a rare one at that and have been treasured by African tribes and so on. My mother has been told she is extremely sensitive to ghosts, but she doesn't see them at all, she is just told she has a man who watches over her to protect her from the chains she is dragging all linked to spirits of the past. She says she has seen this man in her dreams and that is name is Edward and that he likes to watch over my dad as well in his current time of need.
Believe what you will about that but dogs have sixth senses, humans may well evolve or have all ready evolved to have some sensitivity to it and disregard what you will about spirits and ghosts but spend a night in my house when it decides to stop being quiet. I promise you, you could try and blag to yourself that it is pipes or the wind, but even you would know deep down that it couldn't have been so.
As someone who is capible of coherant thought and I'm not a complete loony, no I don't believe in the supernatural. I mean, I enjoy reading about it, watching TV shows and movies about it, but I'm not about to go searching for ghosts and things that go bump in the night because I'm quite aware that their existance defies logic.
Sorry to break it to you boys and girls, but it's not real.
Sorry to break it to you boys and girls, but it's not real.
Who has ever said dogs have a sixth sense? And who says that sixth sense can detect anything non-physical.ELD3RGoD said:
For instance, humans have more than six senses. Wikipedia says that for even the most conservative definition of 'sense' we have at least ten senses. Note that every sense(even ones used by animals) are detect and interpret physical data. Note they they are all worse at detecting that data than any devices we use anyway. So unless all ghosts and so on are comprised of some currently unknown physical substance or field, then no new sense would help us detect them. And since we haven't even the slightest hint of this undetectable field, odds are it doesn't interact with anything else, ever, making its existence(and the detection of it) pointless.
Science can prove anything which leaves evidence, anything that actually interacts with the word(including your brain) leaves evidence. So any legitimate paranormal activity should be observable by science. Any any activity that doesn't leave any evidence, can't have actually interacted with this universe, and from the perspective of humans, doesn't exist.
Taking all of the above in mind, no reported, postulated or claimed paranormal activity is worth investigating by real scientists, as it either is detectable, and left only evidence to suggest it was noting out of the ordinary(most likely people jumping to conclusions or just being too jumpy), or is nigh undetectable, meaning that even if it does exist, most paranormal stories are made up anyway and you've all been going in the wrong direction as this entire branch of paranormal stuff would only exist in a very small and specific way(and certainly wouldn't involve slamming doors or creaking houses, or even spooky looking shadows).
Finally, where'd you hear dogs have some special non-physical sixth sense? I did a google but it only returned logical non-paranormal explanations that made perfect sense. Such that dogs ability to detect danger is just a more sensitive combination of their other senses.
Finally finally, you should look up qualiasoup on you-tube, specifically "open-mindedness" and "it can't just be coincidence" it talks alot about what is required to provide actual scientific evidence of paranormal activity.
edit: I never meant to type such a large post...
I've probably gobbled up what I meant to say somewhere in there, so don't take it all too literally.