Do you find Homefront's story plausible?

[razelas]

The only part that really bothers me is

* 2013: Kim Jong-un is awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and featured on the cover of Time Magazine for his accomplishment of Korean reunification.

There is no way the two Koreas would unify under the leadership of the North without a protracted war. The developers and their consultants have tried to explain all other parts of the story to make it plausible, but they completely skirt this issue.

The Saudi-Iran war is plausible, especially due to the Shiite-Sunni thing. Also, we WILL see the end of cheap oil in our lifetimes, it just probably won't be as soon as Homefront predicts.

The government of North Korea is, effectively, whomever is the current dictator. Given that the current government is replaced according to the game's fiction, there is no particular reason to believe the new government of North Korea would not attempt to improve public perception of the nation in order to unify the two nations. Keep in mind that unification is a goal of both nations and has been since the end of the second world war when the nation was artificially split in two by American and Soviet troops.

While you have some good point the fact remains that there are many wounds between these two countries and them all healing in a year is nothing short of absurd.

You're right, a year is absurd. How does 60+ years sound, when most Koreans didn't even fight in the war? Say, in the 2010's?

 

[Judgement101]

I kinda wish it was plausible because it would spice things up. I don't like it how countries are politically affraid of America.

 

[Jelly ^.^]

I think the developers should have left the enemies as China, as they originally intended.

Much more believable.

 

[Carlston]

Nope since the USA would just drill its own untapped oil, Texas alone can run the country for like 300 years with out skrimping.[sup]]]

Fixed.

If such a thing is true, then why is foreign oil dependence as big an issue as it is?

Simple, you never tap your own supply until everyone else won't give it up cause they ran out...

Then guess who has all the cards? Best I could figure when they call it a "Strategic oil supply" or Emergency war reserves.

But makes sense when you think about it.
Oh and not yer mommy or encyclopedia. Find it yourself on good ol google.

You're the one making the claim. I could claim that North Korea is just relying on foreign aid so it can preserve its own rich natural resources, but it wouldn't make sense to make someone else prove my claim.

So put your money where your mouth is, or your claim is bullshit.

Look it up yourself
Call it bullshit but i'm not yer mom. Do your own homework

lol. Like ten times someone blabs that same crap same ten times they get the same answer. Mostly do to the fact I don't care about the issue to waste time on Homefront brain dead story story. And yeah most every country reserves its own resources while dragging our small countries resources "just in case" ya know war and the like. And that's the best I'll give ya, details are YOUR problem omae not mine.

 

[Carlston]

Careful, razelas would want your "sources and citations" Of the USA's Shale oil reserved and you must show your work!


But yeah, we have enough to stave off a economical disaster. But ya know... most stupid people think one little gust of wind and the entire evil American empire would crumble... least that's their dream.

This plot is ridiculous roflmao. I'll go through it step by step poking holes in it, than you poke holes in my explanations, it will be ever so fun!

-2011 no problems there
-2012 again fine

-2013 ok stop, South Korea would NEVER agree to that so soon after Kim Jong Il's death it would take years and years for the wounds both of those countries have to heal. The only way they would be reunified is through force, which the U.S. at this point, will have more of.
-2014 G.M. going bust again is easily possible but we won't withdraw from Korea for a long time. Hell, look at Japan and Germany we're still in both of those countries all these years after WWII.

-2015 this next part is totally impossible. There's this shit called shale-oil that the U.S. is basically swimming in. The only reason they don't use it this very instant is the cost to produce. I haven't seen a recent figure in a long time but I remember from school that the prices wouldn't go past $7 and some change. This would suck ass, but life would still go on, who knows what improvements hybrid technology will see in the next four years, and it's pretty formidable nowadays. The last part really chafes my balls "china's influence diminishes" ORLY? and why the fuck does that happen? China has been on the upswing for a longass time. It's a massive landmass with an enormous population and plenty of natural resources. If anyone is going to have the strength to invade the United States it would be China, China would never do this however because it forms a symbiont circle with the U.S. and wouldn't want to lose it's cash cow. Russia wouldn't cut off oil trade with Europe for all the tea in China, that country has fallen on hard times since the end of the USSR they need every scrap of currency they can get their hands on.

-2016 this could happen someday but I doubt it will. The U.S. is more resilient than it may seem, as a country they pull together more often than they fall apart.

-2017 same as above, doubtful, especially the martial law part. The government might crack down but I don't think that they would declare martial law.
-2018 this is where my above statements start making these events impossible. Even if Korean special forces pulled this off Japan wouldn't just bend over and surrender. America might intervene and blow up a few cities in Korea but this is hugely far-fetched imo.

-2019 Orly? why the fuck would that happen. Even if the U.S. was out of commission there's more than one country in the U.N., I guaranfuckingtee that Europe would keep the U.N. around I mean fuckin A Britain still has a royal family. They'd stay in the U.N. if only for old times sake.

-2020 Canada is the best friend America has ever had, well... maybe France but that's kind of a love hate relationship. Canada has stuck with America through thick and thin and would never close it's borders off to America. Plus it can't close it's borders because it has HUGE borders and too few personnel.

-2021 Korean forces, while well armed today have one huge factor going against them: they are china's *****. It's kind of funny but Korea while seemingly intimidating is a shithole of a country with few resources of it's own. Without constant Chinese aid they would quickly falter. The U.S. would ask China to tell Korea to fuck off of these other countries China would agree because it would be paying for all of Korea's wars, and once again they love their cash cow. Not to mention the fact that it takes a long ass time to take control of a country.

-2022 While it's true that a massive epidemic could be a major problem for any country, Mexico can't close it's borders because it's poor as shit and can't even control it's own criminals, and that's with massive present day U.S. aid.

-2023 An epidemic is always possible, I have no problems with that. I explained above why I don't think that Korea could ever grow like this. and really, this is 12 years after Kim Jong-IL died Korean unification would be a damn miracle even at this point.

-2024 Korea is too poor to have this kind of space program.

-2025 First off, this technology doesn't exist. No one device could wipe out all the power in the United States. Also i guarantee you that the U.S. has some Nukes squirreled away somewhere in Alaska or some distant territory and would retaliate with those. Europe would come to the U.S.'s aid, they wouldn't be so blind or feeble to a threat like these hypothetical Koreans and would be ready to save the world from the Bi-polar asshat that peacefully united Korea than immediately invaded a bunch of countries in Asia, that not to mention the billions of pissed of chinese who would go get revenge for the death of their cash cow on the tiny country that's relied on their protection for so many years.

-2026 this is actually a really interesting idea, using an irradiated river as a barrier, but why the hell would they irradiate so much of a country they just took over? If they truly didn't care at all about America being habitable they could just nuke it into oblivion, no need for an invasion and the massive loss of life they would no doubt suffer.

-2027 Destryoed by the Koreans? really? thats absurd. North Korea is a scary country not because they might ever be a real threat to America, but because they might be able to kill millions of Americans. A country like North Korea being nuclear armed is terrifying but not because they might take over America, it's because they might nuke a city a a series of cities. Even though if they did America their whole country would be destroyed by the United states, that wouldn't change the fact that the U.S. lost so many lives, they might never recover from an attack like that. America could be taken over by another country at this point but whoever nuked the U.S. initially would be destroyed as well.

This post is so moronically long that I should slap myself.
I'll be shocked it they let me post this in one piece.

 

[razelas]

Nope since the USA would just drill its own untapped oil, Texas alone can run the country for like 300 years with out skrimping.[sup]]]

Fixed.

If such a thing is true, then why is foreign oil dependence as big an issue as it is?

Simple, you never tap your own supply until everyone else won't give it up cause they ran out...

Then guess who has all the cards? Best I could figure when they call it a "Strategic oil supply" or Emergency war reserves.

But makes sense when you think about it.
Oh and not yer mommy or encyclopedia. Find it yourself on good ol google.

You're the one making the claim. I could claim that North Korea is just relying on foreign aid so it can preserve its own rich natural resources, but it wouldn't make sense to make someone else prove my claim.

So put your money where your mouth is, or your claim is bullshit.

Look it up yourself
Call it bullshit but i'm not yer mom. Do your own homework

lol. Like ten times someone blabs that same crap same ten times they get the same answer. Mostly do to the fact I don't care about the issue to waste time on Homefront brain dead story story. And yeah most every country reserves its own resources while dragging our small countries resources "just in case" ya know war and the like. And that's the best I'll give ya, details are YOUR problem omae not mine.

In other words, you're just making shit up.

And here I was thinking you were taking this seriously.

 

[The Wonder of the net]

not korea but i think china will when our money runs out

 

[Carlston]

Nope since the USA would just drill its own untapped oil, Texas alone can run the country for like 300 years with out skrimping.[sup]]]

Fixed.

If such a thing is true, then why is foreign oil dependence as big an issue as it is?

Simple, you never tap your own supply until everyone else won't give it up cause they ran out...

Then guess who has all the cards? Best I could figure when they call it a "Strategic oil supply" or Emergency war reserves.

But makes sense when you think about it.
Oh and not yer mommy or encyclopedia. Find it yourself on good ol google.

You're the one making the claim. I could claim that North Korea is just relying on foreign aid so it can preserve its own rich natural resources, but it wouldn't make sense to make someone else prove my claim.

So put your money where your mouth is, or your claim is bullshit.

Look it up yourself
Call it bullshit but i'm not yer mom. Do your own homework

lol. Like ten times someone blabs that same crap same ten times they get the same answer. Mostly do to the fact I don't care about the issue to waste time on Homefront brain dead story story. And yeah most every country reserves its own resources while dragging our small countries resources "just in case" ya know war and the like. And that's the best I'll give ya, details are YOUR problem omae not mine.

In other words, you're just making shit up.

And here I was thinking you were taking this seriously.

If that makes yer troll self sleep better at night, snuggle up under yer bridge and keep saying it. Research it on yer own.

 

[razelas]

Careful, razelas would want your "sources and citations" Of the USA's Shale oil reserved and you must show your work!

Yes, because unlike you, I'm responsible about what I say:

Spoiler

3. There are so many logical fallacies in that story its not even funny. Ill give the gist:

First off, it's not "logical fallacies," it's plotholes.

- Prices are regulated. price too high? people stop buying and the product becomes worthless. Happened before with oil when it got too high.

Can you provide a source for "people stop buying and the product becomes worthless."? Because people didn't not stop buying oil either in the 1973 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Oil_Crisis#Price_controls_and_rationing] or 1979 oil crisis [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_oil_crisis#United_States] (when prices reached the second highest price recorded) OR the 1990 oil price shock [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_oil_price_shock]. Half of the US energy comes from oil. I suppose people will just run their cars on magic, huh?

- picking natural resources using slave labor? How? How are they going to get it back to Korea without oil? Strap barrels on the Koreans and make them swim across the damn pacific? America doesn't have much oil anymore, so attacking America would be useless. Oil shale? We put more energy (and water) into it than we get oil out. You might as well put out a house fire with kerosene.

It's 2027, you think oil shale technology development is going to remain static? Tthere already is a plethora of oil shale extracting tech. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_oil_extraction#Classifications]

- the idea of North Korean power is based on Germany and Japan. Both nations were in totally different situations. North Korea =/= Japan. North Korea =/= Germany. North Korea becoming big and powerful is no different than saying Somalia became big and powerful. In fact, its so similar that could be Homefront 2: The wrath of Somalia.

I hope you realize that the developers were referring to similar policies of expansionism [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansionism] and imperialism [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism], NOT geography.

- Korean peace is impossible. Either side would need to conquer the other in order to be unified. This would create problems because that would spawn rebels on North Korea's home turf.

What a massively ignorant and baseless comment. Do you know how many Koreans want peace so they can see long-lost relatives on either side? Do you know that many Koreans draft-dodge to other countries so they don't waste 2-3 FUCKING YEARS of their lives training FOR A WAR MANY DON'T EVEN THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

Also, case study. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany#Division_and_reunification_1945.E2.80.931990] I bet people like you said back in the day that East and West Germany would never reunite.

- the second Amendment. The American populace is more heavily armed than any other populace in the world. Hell a Russian general was too scared to invade America because he learned every house had a gun. If the Russians and all their power were too scared, what makes you think North Korea would be able to? Including the lack of vehicles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan#History

No empire ever completely conquered Afghanistan, yet the US is in there now, and they're paying for it in blood and money. This is not even taking into account that the US armed the mujahideen in the 1980s and that most every child in Afghanistan can handle an AK-47.

What's your point?

- EMPs kills the device. It doesn't disable it for a short while. If a city was hit with an EMP, it would kill every device there. Every computer, wire, and light would need to be replaced. In short, you demolish the city and build it again. If it destroyed most of the electricity grid in America, what do the mines run on? What do the oil rigs run on? Do you extract the oil from the oil shale with magic? You would need to ferry mining machinery (which requires oil to ferry) to begin extraction. If they get the oil out, they need to ferry an oil processor as well. Oil lost going in, oil lost going out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_economics#Competitive_level_of_oil_price

According to a survey conducted by the RAND Corporation, the cost of producing a barrel of oil at a surface retorting complex in the United States (comprising a mine, retorting plant, upgrading plant, supporting utilities, and spent shale reclamation), would range between US$70?95 ($440?600/m3, adjusted to 2005 values). This estimate considers varying levels of kerogen quality and extraction efficiency. In order for the operation to be profitable, the price of crude oil would need to remain above these levels. The analysis also discusses the expectation that processing costs would drop after the complex was established. The hypothetical unit would see a cost reduction of 35?70% after its first 500 million barrels (79×10^6 m3) were produced. Assuming an increase in output of 25 thousand barrels per day (4.0×10^3 m3/d) during each year after the start of commercial production, the costs would then be expected to decline to $35?48 per barrel ($220?300/m3) within 12 years. After achieving the milestone of 1 billion barrels (160×10^6 m3), its costs would decline further to $30?40 per barrel ($190?250/m3) .

What do you fucking know, it's economically feasible. Sure they're going to run on a loss the fist few years, but eventually there will be an gain.

- With all this money being tossed around, where is Korea getting it? The government has expenses of its own like military, healthcare, etc. All the world's governments are suffering, so who's flipping bill? Bill Gates?

It's a gamble, very similar to WWII. Japan and Hitler hoped to sustain their economies through annexation of other countries, centralizing the natural resources of those occupied areas into the domestic market.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Nope since the USA would just drill its own untapped oil, Texas alone can run the country for like 300 years with out skrimping.[sup]]]

Fixed.

If such a thing is true, then why is foreign oil dependence as big an issue as it is?

Simple, you never tap your own supply until everyone else won't give it up cause they ran out...

Then guess who has all the cards? Best I could figure when they call it a "Strategic oil supply" or Emergency war reserves.

But makes sense when you think about it.
Oh and not yer mommy or encyclopedia. Find it yourself on good ol google.

You're the one making the claim. I could claim that North Korea is just relying on foreign aid so it can preserve its own rich natural resources, but it wouldn't make sense to make someone else prove my claim.

So put your money where your mouth is, or your claim is bullshit.

The only part that really bothers me is

* 2013: Kim Jong-un is awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and featured on the cover of Time Magazine for his accomplishment of Korean reunification.

There is no way the two Koreas would unify under the leadership of the North without a protracted war. The developers and their consultants have tried to explain all other parts of the story to make it plausible, but they completely skirt this issue.

The Saudi-Iran war is plausible, especially due to the Shiite-Sunni thing. Also, we WILL see the end of cheap oil in our lifetimes, it just probably won't be as soon as Homefront predicts.

The government of North Korea is, effectively, whomever is the current dictator. Given that the current government is replaced according to the game's fiction, there is no particular reason to believe the new government of North Korea would not attempt to improve public perception of the nation in order to unify the two nations. Keep in mind that unification is a goal of both nations and has been since the end of the second world war when the nation was artificially split in two by American and Soviet troops.

While you have some good point the fact remains that there are many wounds between these two countries and them all healing in a year is nothing short of absurd.

Except that North Korea doesn't "unify" the country. KJU actually surrenders to South Korea, so long as he is allowed to continue running most of the public functions for what was North Korea.

KJU then uses the political and social unrest (some natural, some caused by him) to embarrass and make the South Korean leadership look incompetent. People from all parts of Korea then start to follow him, just because he has set himself up to be the only competent and stabilizing factor in the country. By the time the West or anyone realizes what is going on, KJU already has complete, legitimate control of the entire Korean peninsula.


Basically, KJU is a professional bastard. He not only convinces South Korea to burn their own house down, but gets them to buy the torch and jump in after it.

 

[Sarge034]

I think my issue remains with the scenario just getting started. It requires the DPRK to reunify with the south, and even then do it in a "peaceful" way that somehow leaves the north in control.That just wouldn't happen.

You will be surprised to know that it would not be that much of an issue for the North, because of the increasing liberal attitude of college professors and students. My father was stationed over there for two years. One year at Osan Air Base, and one year at Kunsan Air Base. The older generation still rembers how much America sacrificed for them and are very grateful. However, the younger generation is being taught with a very liberal anti-American attitude in college. Every Friday our bases have to fortify themselves with sand bags and gun emplacements, because every Friday there is a protest like clock work. Also, I have seen other posts that say the South Korean military could fend off the North on its own. That is simply not true. Not only do we supply them their munitions, but we are so tied into their defensive network that if we were to leave they could not pick up the slack fast enough. The North would come down as soon as we left to maximize on this fact.

Fun fact a lot of people don't know.

The North has hundreds of troops training to assault Osan and Kunsan Air Bases. They have replicated the compouns to scale. This is all these troops are tasked with, to practice assaulting the two main US bases in the South. Pretty cool right?

I would show you a source, but all you will see about it is a prepardness to hold and counter attack if the North should try to take the bases. I would show you the pictures of the mock compound, but we all know how much the North likes its privacy.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=North%20Korea&cp=21&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&wrapid=tljp13008691970711085&um=1&biw=1899&bih=868&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il

 

[Wintermoot]

its more plausible then the COD stories and might work (with a few things being impossible like the decommission of the UN)

 

[ThongBonerstorm]

I guess the best way to go at it would be to find a way to circumvent the American's only line of defense; the Navy. America can project force easily, but they would have a very hard time throwing it the other way.

In the event someone was able to land ground troops, you'd think it would be pretty easy to deal with the under qualified troops that are sitting around, especially in this story where most of the armed forces are being required to run day to day facilities. It would be interesting to see play out.

 

[Jimmybobjr]

Everyone saying that the oil will last, or that theres oil in America that America can use is irrelivant. The fact is, is that due to the lack of oil, there is a global economic crisis. IF america drilled the oil and used it for itself, There will still be a Global crisis.

If america has oil, and The rest of the world doesnt, The rest of the world will fail, and thus America will fail since there is no other country to sell goods to, to buy goods from etc.

 

[Wondermint13]

Homefront had a story?

I didnt think gamers or The Army needed a story in-order to blow up lesser nations these days..

 

[Wicky_42]

no, not plausible - but at least there's something there to back the story up. It's nice that they made the effort and that it's not outlandish. The time frame in particular is a bit tight for my tastes, but again it's not as bad as city-eating worms.

 

[Wicky_42]

Except that North Korea doesn't "unify" the country. KJU actually surrenders to South Korea, so long as he is allowed to continue running most of the public functions for what was North Korea.

KJU then uses the political and social unrest (some natural, some caused by him) to embarrass and make the South Korean leadership look incompetent. People from all parts of Korea then start to follow him, just because he has set himself up to be the only competent and stabilizing factor in the country. By the time the West or anyone realizes what is going on, KJU already has complete, legitimate control of the entire Korean peninsula.


Basically, KJU is a professional bastard. He not only convinces South Korea to burn their own house down, but gets them to buy the torch and jump in after it.

Oh, really? Is that explained in one of those notes or something? That is actually a pretty sweet way of doing it, hadn't thought of that. Cool, there goes one of the only niggles that bugged me about the plot

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I've had hallucinations that made more sense.

2013: Wouldn't happen. Ever.
American military withdraw? Again, never happen.
Japan's already shown how powerful it is, in relating to Nuclear technology, and how proudly it defends it.
Korea would also suffer from the problems of rising oil.
Canada blocking the US would be akin to crippling Canada, given the media hold.
Many Americans would NEVER abandon the suburbs, especially if Martial Law happened.


And then it gets super stupid.

WHY would they invade America which has no natural resources they could need?
HOW would they have enough fuel to transport them?

Simply put, what cripples America would bury Korea.