Yes, most of the slaves were captured by other African tribes and traded to the slavers for guns and rum.Lord Mountbatten Reborn said:
Do you find the Confederate Flag offensive?
- Thread starter CRAVE CASE 55
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That's a pretty sanitized version of slavery. In many plantations, field slaves were not given adequate medical care and housing, because they were so numerous that it would not be profitable for slave-owners to give their slaves such "luxuries." This was particularly true of plantations that had slave populations from fifty to several hundred.KingmanHighborn said:
Regardless of that, however, that description barely shows how terrible slavery in America was. You make it sound like blacks worked without wages, when, in actuality, it was much worse than that. Slavers whipped slaves that displeased them, female slaves were frequently raped, there were laws that forbade slaves from reading, writing, owning money, and arguing with whites (not their master, mind you, any white person, even low-class ones), black children were often sold away from their families if a slaver needed to repay their debts. It was the complete domination of one one people by another people. That's why American slavery was more egregious than slavery in, say, ancient Greece or Africa. Slaves in both cases were usually from battles, where the only other option was death. Also, African slaves were integrated into the family, and Greek slaves could carry money and were almost encouraged to read in some cases. I'm also pretty sure that while "indentured servants" weren't fed or had health benefits, they weren't raped, they could carry money, they were allowed to read and write, they could argue with other white people, and their families weren't torn apart at the master's whim. "Indentured servants" were treated horribly in America back then, but worse than slaves? No.
While not every southern white person was a slave owner, most of them had no issues of contention with it. Churches stated that slavery was the will of God, scientists "proved" that blacks were were a sub-species of the human race which politicians embraced, and teachers taught children that blacks were inferior. Patterollers (the precursors to police) would abuse caught runaways by castrating, beating, or even hanging them. So, yes, while not every southern white person was a slaveowner, many southerners AND northerners were just as vile when you think about it.
Don't talk about violence in the North when the states with the highest murder rates per capita are in the South. I find it funny how most of the former Confederate states are in the top fifteen. But that wasn't not even my point. My point was that while I carry no ill-will towards the South, I have quite a bit of hatred and contempt for the Confederacy, and I'm ashamed that many Southerners respect such a horrid faction.KingmanHighborn said:
To restate my point, I have absolutely no respect for the Confederacy because they were traitors and losers. No loser in any war gets the praise and respect that the Confederacy does. Their succession was responsible for more American deaths than any battle or war in American history. How can anyone support a faction with that much blood on their hands? They didn't even take their loss gracefully, since the remnants of the Confederacy and their descendants took their bitterness out on the black population for a hundred years through brutality, segregation, manipulation and murder.
That is why the Confederate flag is offensive to the United States. Because it is the banner of traitors.
Its a symbol. That symbol has different meaning associated to it by different groups. None of these meanings is "correct" or better then any other. All are equally valid. You need to know that when you fly the flag to represent one thing it may mean something different to other people and thus make the choice means more then what you think it does.
That said, I don't like the confederacies flag being flow alone mainly because its the symbol of a country that no longer exists that during its entire lifetime always opposed the US, the country in which you reside. Its basic "fuck this country, it sucks" and I think people who are that openly opposed to their own country should try and move if they find it so odious. Complaining and staying here, or denying the US exists in a few backwoods sections of the south, is just so passive aggressive. I dunno, it just bugs me.
That said, I don't like the confederacies flag being flow alone mainly because its the symbol of a country that no longer exists that during its entire lifetime always opposed the US, the country in which you reside. Its basic "fuck this country, it sucks" and I think people who are that openly opposed to their own country should try and move if they find it so odious. Complaining and staying here, or denying the US exists in a few backwoods sections of the south, is just so passive aggressive. I dunno, it just bugs me.
Their slaves were "prisoners of war" in that they were taken from conquered peoples of countries invaded by the Romans. That's pretty bullshit if you ask me. Very little difference between the 2...and the romans did consider themselves superior. No one says the Romans or Greeks were evil because it happened so long ago that no one gives a shit and it was one small part of their overall culture.Drafon said:
On topic, no I don't.
(Fixed that for ya.
)(Last I checked America didn't build arenas and pit thier slaves against each other like human rooster fighting. Or feed them to lions, or use thier bodies as fertilizer, or concubines, etc.etc.etc.)
(not nessecarily, they had no rights as indentured servants so the person they owed money too could take what they wanted.)
(nope. Sorry wrong. 100% of thier wages went to the debt collecter. And they could only eat what the debt collector gave them, which was charged to thier debt.)
(to a limit. read and write if they could afford the schooling, but guess what no money, no school, so no reading or writing skills, and you could argue with a fellow servant but not the person you owed.)
Churches stated that slavery was the will of God, scientists "proved" that blacks were were a sub-species of the human race which politicians embraced, and teachers taught children that blacks were inferior.[/quote]
(all of which wasn't even changed until the 70's in textbooks so what's your point?)
(Really? Check again. Top ten: Only two southern cities in the top ten Memphis and St. Louis. Not counting California. North cities: Detriot, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cleveland, Washington D.C. Go into the Top 15: South: Miami, Atlanta North: Philadelphia, Indianapolis, and Cincy)
(yeah a whole 4 out of 11)
(Sparta get a hell of a lot praise and respect, we still respect Britain even though America did to the British, what the Confed did to the Union, expect without the use of terrorism and guierilla tactics. We respect ALOT of people who in the end lost out to a superior force either by numbers, technology, or other advantage. The Confederacy was not traitors, unlike Lincoln who pretty much took a dump on the consitituion, enslave immigrants coming into this country under the term 'conscription' ad 'draft' and again don't talk to me about blood shed, considering what Grant did. The South didn't use blacks as human shields either unlike the Union or force them to fight.)
(Would you if just had your home ripped away, bankrupted, everything you owned burned into the ground, and forced into a system you don't believe in? And we didn't take anything out on the black population, especially compared to thier treatment in the North. )
(It's a banner of heroes NOT traitors. Get your facts straight.)
Where I am from (N. Ireland) there alot of this crap piss me off how different colours on a rectangle pace of cloth deciding whether or not to like them or at the worst of times murder them.
To me I don't care what background your from you are what you are, be it southern,northern, catholic,protestant,time travailing alien whatever be proud that your a time travailing alien.
To me I don't care what background your from you are what you are, be it southern,northern, catholic,protestant,time travailing alien whatever be proud that your a time travailing alien.
There's a certain symmetry to the design I find appealing. I wouldn't have chosen that particular shade of red, but it works well enough in contrast to the blue used.
I'm from the UK, so no, not really. I don't agree with what the Confederacy stood for however, and I can see why people might find it offensive.
Offensive might be too strong of a word. Let's just say as a southerner I find it to be part of an embarrassing yet self perpetuating stereotype. It's not like the guys with rebel flags on their jackets are known to graduate at the top of their class or achieve great things in life.
I don't think it's something that is bad or for people to be ashamed of. I don't think it's something to be particularly proud of, either. I'll never hang a flag of any kind anywhere, unless it was one that represented something that I was a direct part of. I'm proud of my own life and the actions I do, anything that happened before then was lucky coincidence, that I was born in that place, after those things happened. I could have been born anywhere. By flying a flag I'm celebrating not hatred or heritage - just blind chance.Angus Young said:
It ultimately boils down to a symbol of treason for me, they broke the sacred bonds of the union and through their actions doomed thousands upon thousands of lives.
I've never understood this whole controversy. I don't understand this logic that symbols are inherently bad. After all, by this logic, any flag should be considered offensive because I can't think of a single country that has an innocent past.
The Union Jack of the UK should be considered offensive since it was a symbol of an empire that systematically stole land from people, disenfranchised and murdered much of the populace and often left behind a nice war with a neighbour for good measure.
The French flag should be considered offensive for the atrocities committed by the Jacobins during the French Revolution. They needlessly executed all manner of people under false charges of being counter-revolutionaries and surely descendants of the oppressed survive today to be offended.
The Japanese flag should be considered offensive because it is still similar to the one they flew during WWII which involved numerous atrocities against the occupied Chinese, among those people in the Pacific Island.
See? I just don't get it. It all sounds silly to me. Why do we associate some things with symbols and not others? The Swastika was originally a symbol for peace in Tibet. Why lose that meaning and forever mar it as something inexorably tied to Nazis? Why view the Confederate flag as a racist symbol and not merely a declaration of the territory you happen to have come from?
I don't know. It's just one of those things I really can't comprehend about the way we think about things.
The Union Jack of the UK should be considered offensive since it was a symbol of an empire that systematically stole land from people, disenfranchised and murdered much of the populace and often left behind a nice war with a neighbour for good measure.
The French flag should be considered offensive for the atrocities committed by the Jacobins during the French Revolution. They needlessly executed all manner of people under false charges of being counter-revolutionaries and surely descendants of the oppressed survive today to be offended.
The Japanese flag should be considered offensive because it is still similar to the one they flew during WWII which involved numerous atrocities against the occupied Chinese, among those people in the Pacific Island.
See? I just don't get it. It all sounds silly to me. Why do we associate some things with symbols and not others? The Swastika was originally a symbol for peace in Tibet. Why lose that meaning and forever mar it as something inexorably tied to Nazis? Why view the Confederate flag as a racist symbol and not merely a declaration of the territory you happen to have come from?
I don't know. It's just one of those things I really can't comprehend about the way we think about things.