Do you get angry/annoyed when people disrespect your country's flag?

[Lonan]

Every single country has done something wrong. Just about every country and culture has killed, enslaved and harmed others. We are a very young and recent nation. We didn't have time to do things slowly if we wanted to stay caught up with the others. We had to make every decision quickly and that means our mistakes happened more often. Compared to other Countries we are like a teenager stuck in power while all the other older and (Honestly) less powerful countries look down on us saying we have little experience and knowledge (which may be true) of what the world needs.

Which is why nationalism is awful. I prefer the idea of either a unified world government or small city-states. the nation-state is an awful, awful concept.

A world government creates an absolutely massive potential for global despotism, and makes rebelling against an unjust government extremely difficult. As for small city states, that's essentially taking humanity back several millenia to when small groups of people fought with other small groups of people for dominance. Some would win, dominate, become larger, subjugate others, its been done. With small city states, you would not have the scale needed for the development of modern medical technology. We would likely live in a pre-industrial revolution society. There would be no video games or computers or smartphones. There would be potatoes.

Atrocities have been committed in the name of the nation-state, but with the nation-state there would be far more conflict. Have you ever heard of the "balance of power?" It also applies to the climate (off-topic) but it is essentially what prevents chaos. If the powerful forces in the world are kept in check by not being too much more powerful than one another (It was a pre-20th century European concept) conflict will be kept to a minimum. Nowadays, we have fought, millions have died, so that we can all see the dire consequences of war and realise that peace is much better than war. That would not have occurred without the nation-state. Would you roll all that progress towards peace back just to satisfy utopian idealism? Would you make the 65 million deaths of the Second World War be in vain? The Cold War made conflict even less likely because of the Mutually Assured Destruction. To those who wish for fantasy worlds, that's a bad thing. However, for those who enjoy living in peace and not having to worry about being sent overseas to die it is very much a good thing.

You're talking about implementing things which would require a complete overhaul of human nature. Don't blame the nation-state for all the wicked things about the primal parts of human nature. Instead blame the individual human who choose their more primal side. I see you at least understand the need for government, but you go to two extremes, very small government and very large government. Neither is best for humanity. Let's go with what we have, and try to make it work as best as possible.

 

[xdiesp]

Burn the flag.

Only tools chase a flag to later come back home wrapped in one.

 

[Lord Mountbatten Reborn]

If someone damaged the Libyan flag I would be very irritated. It's one of the most ubiquitous flags in the entire world. Everywhere I go people are celebrating Libya. I mean they even colour the turf of football pitches to resemble it!

 

[neil1990]

My country's flag is burned each year by people in the North every 12th July. But it really doesn't bother me. (BTW I am from Ireland)

 

[TheMagicLemur]

A world government creates an absolutely massive potential for global despotism, and makes rebelling against an unjust government extremely difficult. As for small city states, that's essentially taking humanity back several millenia to when small groups of people fought with other small groups of people for dominance. Some would win, dominate, become larger, subjugate others, its been done. With small city states, you would not have the scale needed for the development of modern medical technology. We would likely live in a pre-industrial revolution society. There would be no video games or computers or smartphones. There would be potatoes.

Atrocities have been committed in the name of the nation-state, but with the nation-state there would be far more conflict. Have you ever heard of the "balance of power?" It also applies to the climate (off-topic) but it is essentially what prevents chaos. If the powerful forces in the world are kept in check by not being too much more powerful than one another (It was a pre-20th century European concept) conflict will be kept to a minimum. Nowadays, we have fought, millions have died, so that we can all see the dire consequences of war and realise that peace is much better than war. That would not have occurred without the nation-state. Would you roll all that progress towards peace back just to satisfy utopian idealism? Would you make the 65 million deaths of the Second World War be in vain? The Cold War made conflict even less likely because of the Mutually Assured Destruction. To those who wish for fantasy worlds, that's a bad thing. However, for those who enjoy living in peace and not having to worry about being sent overseas to die it is very much a good thing.

You're talking about implementing things which would require a complete overhaul of human nature. Don't blame the nation-state for all the wicked things about the primal parts of human nature. Instead blame the individual human who choose their more primal side. I see you at least understand the need for government, but you go to two extremes, very small government and very large government. Neither is best for humanity. Let's go with what we have, and try to make it work as best as possible.

THere is a corporate oligarchy right now, pretty much running the world as it sees fit. I'd rather have an overarching government that at least tries to give a shit about its people. And honestly, I would prefer city-states with a small-but-centralized overstructure. There needs to be a balance between bottom-up government and top-down government.

One thing that is apparent to me is that the Nation-state is a clumsy, ineffective attempt to bridge the two. It instead affords all the patriotic zealotry of primitive city-states with the corruption and immobility of the world government you fear.

And are you actually saying Mutually Assured Destruction was a good thing? Really?

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I'm an athiest, but I'd never publicly burn a crucifix or koran, or the like, so why would I disrespect a flag?

Means almost nothing to me really, however, being English, I do find it reprehensible that the English flag (red cross on white) seems to be a symbol for neanderthal racist thugs rather than any real pride of England.

I can't help but think it's been taken over, it's almost a BNP symbol more than a flag any more.

Fortunately there's still the union flag, to represent Britain, and if there's something racists hate, it's the idea of union

In short, no I don't feel it really has an important message to me, but I think anyone burning or desecrating flags without some really good reason, is usually just doing it to upset and offend people.

TRIVIA TIME!

Who burns more US flags each year than anyone else?

Spoiler

The US boy scouts. They have a ceremony each year to dispose of worn out or damaged flags respectfully. Lose 10 points and get a free job at FOX if you said 'muslims'

 

[Fangface74]

Patriotism is stupid, it's fanaticism directed towards a land mass!

Your country is where your parents 'did' each other, then birthed & raised you....nothing more.

To the OP and like-minded; grow up! before your arteries harden from pointless stress.

Patriotism is simply love towards ones people and culture and there is nothing wrong with it. Just like you love your family some people love their country and want to protect it from anything that threatens it.

Love for your closest friends and family is REAL, I think you can only APPRECIATE a culture. If you think you have true love for a set of laws and traditions, that may be a chemical imbalance in your brain.

If you've lived in less than a handful of countries you sound idiotic when you say you're proud (of the only culture you've ever known!)

 

[Fangface74]

Question to the OP:

A small Iraqi girl is naked and on fire, the ONLY thing you can douse the flames with is.....you guessed it! AN AMERICAN FLAG!

You only have the two options; Douse or don't.

 

[Soods]

I don't mind it. Usually I feel like disrespecting Finlands flag too. (But I know a lot of people who would go nuts about it.)

 

[twistedmic]

Question to the OP:

A small Iraqi girl is naked and on fire, the ONLY thing you can douse the flames with is.....you guessed it! AN AMERICAN FLAG!

You only have the two options; Douse or don't.

Douse the girl without a doubt or a second of hesitation, human life is more important. But leaving a flag out in the rain and near gale-force winds, letting it get tattered and torn will not directly or immediately save someones life. And just about the only time dragging a flag on the ground will save someone's life is if the are badly wounded and the flag is the only available material to make a simple litter.

But the burning child or wounded person are extenuating circumstances. Neglect or outright disrespect and desecration are not.

 

[thylasos]

I don't think 'disrespect' is a particularly applicable term, to be honest. You're not destroying whatever ideals one may or may not associate with one's flag, you're destroying a wavey bit of fabric, a replication of a symbol.

People in the UK don't have the flag-worship and flag-display culture, leaving the enormous one in the US slightly incomprehensible.

The reaction to flag-burning and so on is particularly puzzling given that it's generally used as a form of political protest, i.e. free speech, a right enshrined in the constituion, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Pandabearparade]

That's my reason for never desecrating Old Glory, it would be kind of like burning the Constitution to me.

Ironically, the right to burn the Constitution is given in the Constitution.

 

[KingofallCosmos]

I'm from Holland, and here seeing the flag means one of two things:
either it's our queen's anniversary when the city is so filled with drunk people it literally gets clogged or something about football.
In short, I have no patriotic feelings regarding our flag.

 

[Fangface74]

Question to the OP:

A small Iraqi girl is naked and on fire, the ONLY thing you can douse the flames with is.....you guessed it! AN AMERICAN FLAG!

You only have the two options; Douse or don't.

Douse the girl without a doubt or a second of hesitation, human life is more important. But leaving a flag out in the rain and near gale-force winds, letting it get tattered and torn will not directly or immediately save someones life. And just about the only time dragging a flag on the ground will save someone's life is if the are badly wounded and the flag is the only available material to make a simple litter.

But the burning child or wounded person are extenuating circumstances. Neglect or outright disrespect and desecration are not.

The daft hypothetical aside (no-one has to justify saving the girl!), but in the same breath you properly state using the material to save a life, but then in situations of zero importance (windy days! really?) you attach all this silly superfluous importance to it again.

They could change the American flag design tomorrow to that of a pink pony shitting kittens and America will be JUST as America as it was today, a year from now, a decade etc. (With some slight sniggering from the EU)

 

[BlackSaint09]

Not really i guess.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

No because I'm not a patriotic and xenophobic git who will snap at anyone who doesn't fit into my "normal people" shoe box.

Well, hold on, that's a bit harsh.

A) Being patriotic is not a bad thing as long as it stays far away from the realm of zealous nationalism.
B) Not everyone who is patriotic is xenophobic, though the...less than stellar individuals that get media attention might convey different.

C) Being upset at seeing a flag harmed does not exactly make you what you list above. You know why I don't like seeing the American flag burnt? Because I think my country is great. Not perfect by any means. We are corrupt, lazy, and so on, but we still have a much better way of life than many other places in the world. So when I see people burn the flag or spit on it, I find those people usually don't realize how great they have it. They don't realize what a great country they live in. Sure, the country has it's short comings and its frustrating elements, but I doubt any country is perfect. And usually, when they burn a flag, they are angry at some politician. Not the country as a whole.

As for foreign countries that burn flags, I believe they just are so caught up with their anger with the military and politicians of the US that they forget that there might be some nice, decent people here. When angry, some people's minds go right to the stereotypes that they have always been taught. So if something bad happens to them, they blame the fat, lazy Americans, even though it might be some politician's fault. And you know what? Some Americans do that to other countries. Particularly Muslims. We are both flawed.

So, yes, it bothers me when any flag is burned. Not because of what Mr. K says, but because I believe people don't realize the message they are sending with such an act. They don't realize that they are fueling hate, both their own and the country whose flag they burn. And hate needs to be stopped.

 

[Maphysto]

Canada? Fuck no, our flag falls from trees every goddamn autumn. I step on maple leafs all the fucking time.

Flags aren't representative of a country's ideals. It doesn't show their people, their attitudes or their leaders. A flag has very little meaning, except what people assign to it. And I think people put waayyyyy too much meaning into them.

[Edit] Example: My friend is from 'Merica. I was joking around with some people about how boring the States flag is. She just flipped the fuck out, yelling at me to show some respect for the Stars and Stripes. Then she yelled at me for disrespecting the Canadian flag, saying, "A flag is your country, If your flag breaks your country breaks."

I find this view unacceptable. A country should not be seen by it's symbol, but by it's actions.

This is exactly my view. People place far too much importance on symbols, slogans and such, and not enough on what these things are supposed to stand for. The US flag was meant to stand for unity, freedom and justice. Now, to most people in the world, it stands for arrogance, bigotry, and the outright subversion of the principles we pay lip service to.

 

[Ramzal]

I've served in the United States military, and I'm an American born and raised. But honestly? I could care less for a piece of cloth with stars and stripes on them. It's a symbol, nothing more. It shows how much land we have as a country, that's about it. I believe that my hope for this country exists in more than a stupid piece of cloth.

 

[Amphoteric]

Not really, I do like how the Union FLAG looks though. Patriotism isn't even close to what it is in America though.