Do you obey the law?
- Thread starter Reiper
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Overall, I would consider myself very law abiding. I have a pretty healthy level of respect for laws and those who enforce them. That said, I would never say that I follow every law that's out there.
For example, my city requires all cats and dogs to be licensed. My cat isn't licensed. If the day came where I was somehow put in a position where I "got caught" and was issued a ticket or something I would pay it as I'm fully aware that I'm breaking the law. But just knowing that "there's a law" isn't making me go out and get a license.
For example, my city requires all cats and dogs to be licensed. My cat isn't licensed. If the day came where I was somehow put in a position where I "got caught" and was issued a ticket or something I would pay it as I'm fully aware that I'm breaking the law. But just knowing that "there's a law" isn't making me go out and get a license.
Some things. Not a lot. The only thing I can actually remember doing that wasn't online was opening up my 22 yo engine from the posted 45 to 65 on a country road. I wasn't feeling well at the moment, and let my anger out through the growl of horsepower. It was straight, paved, and nobody was coming or behind me. Of course it only lasted for about a quarter mile before a stop sign convinced me to stick to the limit from then on.
Look, you might think you're a crusader of justice in an unjust world, but you're really just not helping those "stupid" laws get repealed or looked at with more scrutiny. Fireworks permits usually came about from a large frequency of morons blowing themselves up, or starting fires. All of those things cost the government money because guess who has to clean all that shit up? And it doesn't cost $80 to pay for that either. Generally the government doesn't make money, it hemmorages it keeping things like your street from falling apart, overpasses from falling on your head, etc. Seriously people spend too much time thinking about how the government is screwing them and very little on how much the government does to help us out or keep us safe that we don't see.Reiper said:
Invasion of what privacy, btw? You're driving on public roads in an open-window car, which is illegal to have mirror-tint or too-dark-to-see tint on anyway, so what reasonable expectation of privacy are you claiming in order to "get away" with that? There's nothing that says you can't be recorded in public without your permission, unless you live in a place where that is actually a law, but thats usually for private recordings not public safety or law enforcement.
And if you really don't agree with them, think they're useless or worse than having them in the first place, do some research, put together some comprehensive info and fact sheets on why you're correct and take it up with your town/city government. Get people to sign petitions. Get involved, get active. Posting your rebel nature here or any other forum isn't doing a darn thing to change these issues, neither is getting people to agree with you on it being ok to break the law if the law is stupid. Its not ok to do so, its stupid to break the law over such minor things. Make a case for change, or pay your fines when you eventually get caught. The former may get you somewhere, the latter means you end up paying the government more than the $80 it would have cost you.
To the OT stuff first: as much as comes to mind. It's not that I'm a goody-two-shoes or anything, but I see little to no value in doing so. Then again, I've been pulled over with no justification, had illegal searches done of my vehicle, and so on, so I don't think I'd get away with it anyway. Hell, I once had to fight a ticket for an "illegal right turn on red" in a state that has a right on red law. With a right on red sign at the intersection.
But the fact is, they're explosives. They cause fire and injury. Even the "trained professionals" get their hands blown off. While I'm sure none of this would ever happen to you (just like how drunk drivers are always sure they're fine to drive), other people might not feel so safe with your decision. I also kind of doubt that you'd like it if you got injured or your house was lit on fire because someone copped the "ain't no gummit gonna tell me what I can do on my own property!" routine.
Our laws are somewhat relaxed on the 4th, but people go ape and try and buy the biggest, baddest fireworks and stuff. I don't remember the laws about New Year.
Anyway, your post reminded me of that.
A friend of mine posted on Facebook last month about the fire caused by someone firing off fireworks in his area. Which, because of who we are, led to several people making "we don't need no water let the mother burn!" references.Reiper said:
But the fact is, they're explosives. They cause fire and injury. Even the "trained professionals" get their hands blown off. While I'm sure none of this would ever happen to you (just like how drunk drivers are always sure they're fine to drive), other people might not feel so safe with your decision. I also kind of doubt that you'd like it if you got injured or your house was lit on fire because someone copped the "ain't no gummit gonna tell me what I can do on my own property!" routine.
You're in public. Pretty much the very concept reduces or eliminates your right to reasonable expectation of privacy.
You...You do understand that certain types of stalking are legal in most or all states, right? You realise that one of the primary limitations in stalking cases is private dwellings or businesses, right? Basically, do you understand the basics of the thing you're bringing up?
I live near a state border. We've got laws against most fireworks, so what happens is we've got this one stretch of road right over the border with like four or five fireworks stores. And they send us ads. What makes this even funnier to me is that the cops basically sit on the road every July. Unsurprisingly, they catch a bunch of people.Eleuthera said:
Our laws are somewhat relaxed on the 4th, but people go ape and try and buy the biggest, baddest fireworks and stuff. I don't remember the laws about New Year.
Anyway, your post reminded me of that.
That's why Neutral Good is the best alignment. The law doesn't have anything to do with morality. For example I can't marry someone of the same-sex, change my legal gender or blaspheme in Ireland without breaking the law, doesn't mean those thing are wrong. Likewise slavery used to be legal in many parts of the world, doesn't mean it was ever right. Do what's right, don't do what's wrong. That said I'd obey the law and avoid doing something I don't think is wrong because the punishment for disobeying isn't worth it.
Same can be said of rules in general. There are rules here I think are stupid and should be changed but I won't break them because it isn't worth the punishment.
Same can be said of rules in general. There are rules here I think are stupid and should be changed but I won't break them because it isn't worth the punishment.
There's two reasons on the top of my mind that a fireworks permit makes sense.Reiper said:
1. Fireworks are loud and disruptive. Could cause safety issues if other events are going on in your town. If you're shooting fireworks on an acreage, a farm, or a cabin at the lake, sounds like fun and more power to you. If you're shooting fireworks in the middle of a residential area, you're an inconsiderate asshole.
2. Fireworks are a fire hazard. This is the main reason that I find makes the most sense for fireworks permits. Grass, trees, crops, and buildings are very flammable. As a local government, you don't want people shooting off fireworks in a dry season. Sure, fireworks are pretty low risk, but that low risk comes with extreme consequences. Even a farmer can't burn brush on his land without a permit. My local government posts fire bans, and those fire bans even include the small fire pit in my backyard.
Now, for that $80 fee, I'm assuming it's mostly just administration fees and your local government hasn't figured how to mitigate those costs. Or part of that fee could be going to the local fire department which saves your ass upon the chance that you do set your property on fire.
Yes, shooting off fireworks should be a privilege, and no, owning your own property does not give you the right to do whatever pleases you. If you're gonna break laws, break laws that are actually stupid, like the use of casual drugs. And yes, I break the law. Canadian law. Oh my god, I'm so bad-ass.
Here in the UK, just about everyone jaywalks (especially in cities like Glasgow) and I occasionally do some times as well if there is no cars in sight. Though on the whole, I am a perfect law abiding citizen (or at least I can't think of anything else).
That couldn't be any further from the truth though. It may not have anything to do with your morality but the law is supposed (there can be a time-lag or some odd inconsistencies) to uphold the moral standards of the society in which it is applied. If gays are persecuted by the law in some countries it's because the people there think homosexuality is amoral (as an example).Knight Captain Kerr said:
If we lived in a society where everyone thought it was peachy to disobey whatever law wasn't personally convenient to them, we would have complete chaos. Like it or not, all those laws about fireworks, or speeding, or drinking, or what have you exist for a certain reason. You might not agree with that reason because it gets in your way, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to obey it when you can. As an example, people always tell me that they never follow the speed limit, because such regulations are unreasonable and get in a driver's way, or because someone was in a hurry, or because breaking it is a 'victimless crime'. Of course, it's only victimless until the moment you accidentally rear-end a minivan because you were going 65 in a 40 MPH zone, just like underaged drinking is only harmless until some 15-year-old chokes on their own vomit in a drunken haze.
It's true that what's lawful and what's right don't always intersect: history has proven that time and time again. And you of course have the duty to oppose a law that is immoral or evil. But that isn't the same as disregarding the laws that keep society safe and running just because they're inconvenient to you, or because you couldn't be asked to care.
It's true that what's lawful and what's right don't always intersect: history has proven that time and time again. And you of course have the duty to oppose a law that is immoral or evil. But that isn't the same as disregarding the laws that keep society safe and running just because they're inconvenient to you, or because you couldn't be asked to care.
Not really. Laws tend to be there for a reason. I'm not saying I think the law is absolute and you should never break it, but you should at least think about why they made the law before you break it.
Sometimes a law is indeed to protect narrow interests. Sometimes a law has reasonable rationale but poor implementation. Sometimes you get a combo where a good idea is purposefully knobbled. Sometimes a law is there for a damn good reason, and you just have to suck it up that it inconveniences you.
I'm willing to break the law, but not for no good reason. If I disagree with a policy or law, I'd write to my MP or start a petition or use some other democratic process.
..I'm a total square.
Sometimes a law is indeed to protect narrow interests. Sometimes a law has reasonable rationale but poor implementation. Sometimes you get a combo where a good idea is purposefully knobbled. Sometimes a law is there for a damn good reason, and you just have to suck it up that it inconveniences you.
I'm willing to break the law, but not for no good reason. If I disagree with a policy or law, I'd write to my MP or start a petition or use some other democratic process.
..I'm a total square.
I ride my bicycle without a helmet. Though it's only "illegal" since you won't get fined or anything. I've also evaded some bureaucracy a couple of times by fibbing a bit. Technicalities bow before righteous justice!
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I played Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (rated 16+ for some stupid reason) with a seven- and a five-year-old. Like with TTT2, age restrictions for some games and movies are complete whack. They are actually meant to be broken with appropriate discretion.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I played Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (rated 16+ for some stupid reason) with a seven- and a five-year-old. Like with TTT2, age restrictions for some games and movies are complete whack. They are actually meant to be broken with appropriate discretion.
I know I'm talking about my morality, I don't believe in objective morality. I understand what I think is right someone else might think is wrong. I agree that ideally there wouldn't be any conflict between what's right and what's the law but that isn't always the case. It isn't like slavery just became wrong one day and then it became illegal, it was always wrong even when it was widely accepted. And not all laws are made because of the will of the people. See dictatorship or monarchy.generals3 said:
During new years eve I would sure like to see some more laws about fireworks enacted. See, I live next to a small open section of grass. On the other side of the road is a daycare. During new years, or christmas in general, people go there to light fireworks.
Fireworks don't blow up. They shoot up. Then they fall. Every bloody january there are loads of fallen rockets around our house, at the day care grounds, all over the place. It's not fun mate. And some of them don't fire compleatly before they fall, making them come down, land and then sputter for a bit. Not safe. If you do think you have the maturity to light fireworks without a permit, prove it by cleaning up after yourself. Don't make others work because you want to go "ooooh, shiny...".
As for disobeying stupid laws, the old "it's all fun and games..." saying comes to mind. There are plenty of laws and security customs that I used to think was a hassle, but with time I've gotten to think that 1. They serve their purpose and 2. The things I'm scared of/bothered by are really petty most of the time. Even more so when things actually work out.
Now, if we are talking about bigger things like basic human rights to a group of people then that's a different conversation. If we are talking about cameras at the convinience store... Yeah, not exactly an "invasion of privacy" as far as I'm concerned.
Fireworks don't blow up. They shoot up. Then they fall. Every bloody january there are loads of fallen rockets around our house, at the day care grounds, all over the place. It's not fun mate. And some of them don't fire compleatly before they fall, making them come down, land and then sputter for a bit. Not safe. If you do think you have the maturity to light fireworks without a permit, prove it by cleaning up after yourself. Don't make others work because you want to go "ooooh, shiny...".
As for disobeying stupid laws, the old "it's all fun and games..." saying comes to mind. There are plenty of laws and security customs that I used to think was a hassle, but with time I've gotten to think that 1. They serve their purpose and 2. The things I'm scared of/bothered by are really petty most of the time. Even more so when things actually work out.
Now, if we are talking about bigger things like basic human rights to a group of people then that's a different conversation. If we are talking about cameras at the convinience store... Yeah, not exactly an "invasion of privacy" as far as I'm concerned.
You make a lot of good points. People's morality should be what ultimately guides them. However, not everyone is as morally developed as we'd all like and so laws have to exist. You are absolutely correct though, there are times where breaking the law could arguably be more morally acceptable than obeying it. Not doing a bad thing simply because you will be punished is along the same lines of thinking as a child you doesn't want to steal because he knows he/she will be grounded.Reiper said:
I plead the Fifth kidding aside, I quite rarely breaks laws and when do break laws it is usually done by accident. I don't believe In blindly following laws but thus far I don't recall laws I purposely went against.