Do you think relationships between close friends can work (and am I in the friend-zone)?

[Darken12]

That is really quite absurd. He should go find another girl JUST TO NOT APPEAR CREEPY? What a great basis you're setting his next relationship on! No, he should not be finding another relationship for this cause because seeking a relationship should simply be about wanting to be with that person, not some ulterior motive of "I don't wanna seem creepy". You don't use a relationship with someone to PROVE something.

Yes, because we all know that acting creepy rarely makes anyone uncomfortable and is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, particularly towards friends. This was sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell. Secondly, you are vastly exaggerating my point, and saying things I never said. When did I say that he should date someone to avoid appearing creepy? I said that he should distance himself from the girl to avoid appearing creepy. Then I clearly stated that as a second step towards getting over her, he should consider finding someone else and developing feelings for them in order for his feelings towards his friend to fade away. This was a two-step process, and only the first one being justified under the "not appearing creepy" rationale.

I'm going to guess you have different standards than I do since I'd let my friends have some privacy and not expect them all to consider me their greatest confidant. I'd say my best friend probably does and vice versa, but that came naturally, it wasn't some kind of expectation due to being friends.

Lovely generalisation there. When did I apply that to absolutely everything? Never. I clearly specified I was talking about things that directly or indirectly affect you, and only if they are sufficiently important. If both requirements are met, then you can apply what I said before. For everything else? I'm all for respecting other people's privacy and letting them keep whatever they want from me. My only exception is when something significantly important affects me in some way. Then I consider it important that they tell me (and viceversa if the roles are reversed).

 

[Eddy-16]

Are..you..me? This was my exact predicament a couple of months back, I was led on a lot and never got a straight answer outta her. You may as well go for it, if you crash and burn then at least you gave it a shot.

 

[Blunderman]

Sometimes life really sucks and it's usually because you want someone who doesn't want you back. There's no fix, there's nothing you can do to change their feelings; they're as innate and unmovable as their genetics. The sooner you let it go, the easier it gets.

The more time you spend with her, the harder it will be to let go. It's awful, but unrequited romantic feelings tend to ruin everything.

 

[Darken12]

Sorry, you meant idiotic strawman since I only took issue with your method of not appearing creepy. But as has been pointed out you're arrogant, so it's not a surprise you'd think someone daring to disagree with the method therefore means they disagree with everything. In the end it's still incorrect though.

If you don't disagree with my assertion that "looking creepy" is something to be avoided, you completely misunderstood what I said, then.

The process? Which process? The process of distancing himself to avoid giving off the impression of being creepy. So no, you didn't CLEARLY state just that. Maybe you should learn to deal with this arrogance problem and learn to admit when you didn't convey your message was open to interpretation since you're not gonna lie your way out when it's still written there.

I'm sorry, but how on earth do you get to the conclusion that if X is part one of the process and Y is part two, then the process must be X alone? That makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. The process I referred to was the second option I offered, the first one being "tell her everything right now." The second option was, in short, "end those feelings."

There was no generalization there.

And 'sufficiently important' is subjective. Furthermore, it removes the idea of privacy for one thing that's likely to be rather private. If they're not going to act on it, it's fine for them to keep it secret and bury it if they wish. The OP, at the time, thought it wasn't something he was going to act on and was something he'd bury presumably. It only matters if they're going to start acting on it.

Yes, sufficiently important is very subjective, which I said myself several times. I even said "whether it's a big deal or not depends on the people involved and their relationship."

Also, how do you know he's not already acting on it? How do you know that he doesn't let his gaze linger for too long on her, or unconsciously sabotages her relationships by sincerely saying that he doesn't thing X or Y guy is right for her, or by any other of tiny means that he himself is not aware of? Not everyone has perfect self-awareness and self-control, you know, it's very likely that he's subconsciously making decisions already that he doesn't realise are self-serving. Burying something like that may end up making things worse in the end.

 

[Darken12]

Well then I guess the process is to 'avoid giving off the impress of being creepy', the first step is distancing, the second is finding another relationship. After all, if we're going to break it down, distancing was done for the goal of not appearing creepy. This would imply that it is a step towards not appearing creepy, not that not appearing creepy is a step towards distancing.

Yes, distancing is done for the goal of not appearing creepy, but it isn't the only goal of that step and the second step has nothing to do with that goal. I explain it very succinctly here:

I'm advocating that you do the right thing here, which is to either come clean or distance yourself from her until you no longer feel that way (and therefore you are no longer lying), that's all

The key point in the second option is "until you no longer feel that way." Getting a new relationship is part of that goal, and distancing himself has the dual goals of "not looking creepy" and "ending those feelings for her."

And whether he is acting on it and should tell or not is a judgment call for you to make for him? Who made you the highest authority on that, again? Oh you think he MIGHT do something. Well gee, guess he better tell because a third party who doesn't know him or her personally thinks he should because it's possible and they don't know how self-aware he is.

If he doesn't want or need anyone making judgement calls for him, why did he post here asking for advice? At this point, I'm genuinely starting to think you're just trying to pick a fight for arguing's own sake.

 

[Darken12]

The key point is that it doesn't negate my interpretation, meaning that you're just being too arrogant to admit your words could be interpreted in more than one way.

Also, it's still a dick move to tell him to seek a relationship as part of any of this. It shouldn't have baggage to make you feel better.

I never said that my words could never be interpreted in more than one way. That is a self-evident truth. I'm trying to explain what I actually meant, not what you thought I meant, but you clearly do not care in the slightest and are just out to "humble" someone you disagree with.

How is it a dick move? Everything you do is done to make you feel better, even altruism (though some philosophers have argued that it's possible to perform altruistic actions without feeling good for them, however, that's neither here nor there). When someone says "You feel lonely? You should make new friends or date someone!" you are doing that to feel better as well. While it is disloyal to get into a relationship when you have feelings for someone else, what I put forth was that he did that after his feelings for the girl had begun to fade (hence why I repeatedly stated "open yourself to the possibility of a relationship", something that wouldn't happen while he still had feelings for his friend).

The thing is you're making ones you couldn't possibly reasonably make, and ones he didn't ask for, such as ones about whether he was acting on his feelings or not. Are you going to tell him to start crossdressing now? It's a judgment call and he asked for them! Or maybe you can admit that more impartial and less ridiculous advice would involve asking him or presenting advice based on what he thought. It's not hard to think of.

So basically, you disagree/dislike my position and you think I shouldn't say it because you consider it ridiculous/uncalled for. Got it, thanks for the feedback.

 

[Darken12]

Sorry, what does 'clearly' mean again? I merely was pointing out that it could be read more than one way since you claimed I was exaggerating the point, saying things you never said, and asked when you had said something. It was all there, don't accuse me of making it up when it was open to interpretation.

I am rapidly beginning to realise that trying to explain things to you is utterly futile, and you're just looking for anything that you could possibly use to discredit what I'm trying to say. So believe whatever you want to believe.

I'm saying it's to make you feel better, not him given that you mostly seem concerned about how the girl feels about his feelings for her. And you said it was part of distancing from her. Second step of the process.

Me? What do my feelings have to do with it? I'm advocating for taking the girl's feelings into consideration since most people here are going to side with the "friendzoned" dude and forgetting that the girl in question has feelings too and are just as valid and worthy of being taken into consideration as his (or more, because to our knowledge, she didn't lie to him).

Nope, distancing was the first step of the process. Getting a new relationship is step two.

Fixed.

I am not going to change my mind or take back anything I said, if that's what you're after. I don't expect the OP to follow my advice or do anything I'm recommending, and in exchange nobody should expect me to change my mind because someone else disagrees with me. The OP has repeatedly made clear that he doesn't agree with me (which I take to assume that if he ends up following my advice, it's going to be entirely coincidental) and I do not begrudge him that. I also do not expect you to agree with me at all, so kindly extend me the same courtesy. Thanks.

 

[funkyjiveturkey]

i think they work, and i say this as one of the few men to have broken out of the friendzone with a beautiful girl. me and my girlfriend have been together close to a year now, but we've been friends for probably two years before we started dating. within the first few months, like in your case, we pretty much became best friends.

problem here, is that she was in a relationship with another close friend of a few years. they were together for about a year, and pretty much as soon as they started dating he just began treating her like shit constantly, and i would always have to straighten him out. i was pretty much a better boyfriend to her than her actual boyfriend was. after they'd broken up, i even went with her to go get her stuff back from him because she didn't want to be alone with him.

a couple months later, after a bad rebound of hers that lasted about a month and a half with a guy she barely knew, we got a lot closer over the course of several weeks. up to this point i never had a girlfriend, or even so much as my first kiss (age 18). as the weeks went on she would hug me longer when we parted, cuddle up to me when we would watch TV or movies. finally she kissed me and i told her i loved her.

since then everything's been incredible. we've never fought once, and both of us are still amazed how well things have turned out. she and i both even admitted to each other that we were scared of confessing our love for a long time for fear of losing the other. this was a mutual worry.

basically the moral of the story is, stick with it man. if you think she's the right one she very well might be, and perhaps she even thinks it too. don't push it, just roll with it and see what happens. she'll come around eventually, especially if there's another bad relationship between now and then.

things tend to unfold as they should, so just enjoy the ride.

 

[TheMyffic]

Try and avoid unfounded concepts like 'friendzoned.'

She can't be sure whether friends-to-(romantic)relationship will work because nobody can predict, with 100% accuracy, the future of ANY relationship(and she's 16). Friendship, however, is the best platform to build a romantic relationship on.

And honesty and good communication is the best policy. It doesn't assure success, but it gives you the best chance at a healthy relationship. Without being pushy or over-the-top you can let her know that you're interested and available(for now).

Good luck

 

[Giftfromme]

Sorry, what does 'clearly' mean again? I merely was pointing out that it could be read more than one way since you claimed I was exaggerating the point, saying things you never said, and asked when you had said something. It was all there, don't accuse me of making it up when it was open to interpretation.

I am rapidly beginning to realise that trying to explain things to you is utterly futile, and you're just looking for anything that you could possibly use to discredit what I'm trying to say. So believe whatever you want to believe.

I'm saying it's to make you feel better, not him given that you mostly seem concerned about how the girl feels about his feelings for her. And you said it was part of distancing from her. Second step of the process.

Me? What do my feelings have to do with it? I'm advocating for taking the girl's feelings into consideration since most people here are going to side with the "friendzoned" dude and forgetting that the girl in question has feelings too and are just as valid and worthy of being taken into consideration as his (or more, because to our knowledge, she didn't lie to him).

Nope, distancing was the first step of the process. Getting a new relationship is step two.

Fixed.

I am not going to change my mind or take back anything I said, if that's what you're after. I don't expect the OP to follow my advice or do anything I'm recommending, and in exchange nobody should expect me to change my mind because someone else disagrees with me. The OP has repeatedly made clear that he doesn't agree with me (which I take to assume that if he ends up following my advice, it's going to be entirely coincidental) and I do not begrudge him that. I also do not expect you to agree with me at all, so kindly extend me the same courtesy. Thanks.

Just think of "death of the author" by Roland Bathes. It talks about authorial intent and how people will interpret what the author said. Basically the author cannot control how a person interprets what they said, but every single view that other people take on what the author said are completely valid. Some might have more merit then others, but are still valid. Basically he argues for the "death" of the superstar author, who is seen to make his decisions in a vacuum and not be a byproduct of his environment and people around him. Maybe something to keep in mind.

 

[Darken12]

Just think of "death of the author" by Roland Bathes. It talks about authorial intent and how people will interpret what the author said. Basically the author cannot control how a person interprets what they said, but every single view that other people take on what the author said are completely valid. Some might have more merit then others, but are still valid. Basically he argues for the "death" of the superstar author, who is seen to make his decisions in a vacuum and not be a byproduct of his environment and people around him. Maybe something to keep in mind.

Yeah, I know, I've invoked Death of the Author on the whole "Dark Souls easy mode" debacle. However, what I wrote wasn't art. Having an interpretation that differs from the one I had while writing it is an innocent mistake, sure, but it's also a mistake. However, that's completely irrelevant, as I don't think the intention is to find out what I'm trying to say, exactly, but trying to get me to admit that my reasoning is flawed.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

Do not ask the internet for help in these matters. Talk to real people who know your situation better.