Do you think seduction could be a form of rape?

[n00beffect]

No, simply because the act of 'rape' is considered sexual assault, without the consent of either of both parties. I.e, if someone's given you consent to shag them, or if you've given consent to be shagged, then it's legal, and it should be. Otherwise lawyers all over the world would have their hands full of cases of 'rape', and certain people would grow much richer, if an idiotic, redundant law like this ever passes. Oh, and not to mention that the population would drop, since nobody would be fucking anyone, out of fear that they might be accused of rape. I can think of one group, though, that would benefit alot out of this, and that group, or rather those groups, would be radical femminists. They'd love to get their grubby hands on a legislation of this sort.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Rape is the sex without consent. Seduction is the act of getting consent to have sex. If they consent, it is not rape.

 

[similar.squirrel]

especially with younger guys, it can be almost impossible to say no, even if they don't really want to...

Note the 'almost'. If you said 'yes' and woke up the next morning next to some horrendous whale/harlot combination, it'd still be your fault.

 

[JMV]

Yeah, hormone rape.

/sarcasm

No, that makes little sense. It's like saying you were robbed for willfully buying something you turned out not liking. Sure, you end up screwed, but it's entirely your fault. Even if the advertising is stupidly appealing, it's completely in your hands whether you buy the product or not.

 

[plugav]

Seduction is generally unethical but it's not rape.

Anytime you've ever had sex with anyone it is because of seduction, so I don't see how it is unethical.
se·duce   [si-doos, -dyoos] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -duced, -duc·ing.
1.
to lead astray, as from duty, rectitude, or the like; corrupt.
2.
to persuade or induce to have sexual intercourse.
3.
to lead or draw away, as from principles, faith, or allegiance: He was seduced by the prospect of gain.
4.
to win over; attract; entice: a supermarket seducing customers with special sales.

2. To persuade or induce to have sexual intercourse...I don't see how persuading someone to sleep with you is unethical.

English is not my first language, but to me seduction is a one-sided process (one person seduces, the other is seduced - they don't seduce each other) with rather negative connotations. You've personally provided definitions that link seduction to corruption and persuading someone to act against their convictions. I'd never say I seduced or was seduced by my girlfriend, because I don't believe this sort of manipulation was involved.

 

[Robert Ewing]

It can be considered a harassment, as it often is.
Just ask any teenage girl with a myspace account...

And rape can be considered a harassment... So... Shit... I guess technically... It can be.

But no. Nobody takes it that seriously... Unless PETA find a way to exploit it.

 

[chstens]

In Norwegian, rape means voldtekt, which means "to be taken violently", to me, if you're not "taking someone violently", (Of course, if the victim is unconcious or too weak to struggle, it's also rape). If the person wasn't forced, the person wasn't raped.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Just kind of pondering...see, it's rape if the person doesn't want to, but sometimes, especially with younger guys, it can be almost impossible to say no, even if they don't really want to. Thoughts?

No, that's completely wrong.

People can always say no. You can't seduce someone who does not want to be seduced.

The idea that men have to have sex when they see a woman they fancy is just an excuse for people who've decided to, or worse, for dismissing rape as somehow being the woman's fault.

 

[sumanoskae]

No, rape implies force, seduction is just magnifying what's already there. By definition the person has to want to go along with it. Plus, I doubt there's a suicide rate with seduction to rival actual rape.

 

[Yopaz]

Seduction might be the female version of rape. Seeing a woman's mind is stronger than the other and will put him to shame.

But then, rape traumatizes a person and is illegal. There's no law against seduction.

Not to be pedantic, but the "female" version of rape, is rape. Anyone of any gender/sex can rape anyone of any gender/sex. Plus, genders other than women can seduce people.

Sadly under uk law you need to have a penis to rape somebody and therefore a woman cannot rape anyone.

A woman can rape someone, just because the UK government refuses to acknowledge this doesn't make it false. Any non-consensual sexual act (whether penetration, envelopment or something else) is rape (not counting sexual harrasment stuff like arse-tapping or things like stalking, though they are still serious.)

Yes, but if it happens in the UK she can't be sentenced for rape.

OT: Seduction is not rape. There's nothing that actually force you.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Just kind of pondering...see, it's rape if the person doesn't want to, but sometimes, especially with younger guys, it can be almost impossible to say no, even if they don't really want to. Thoughts?

"impossible to say no"

Wat

No. Rape is actual forced sex, don't try to make it mean something else. Maybe you're thinking of sexual assault? (Still no.)

This. Unless the person in question is drunk, drugged, or in fear of their safety when they say yes, then they have given adequate consent. Whether or not they actually wanted to deep down is on them, and it's certainly not on the person they agreed to do it with. Think about it. If you fancy someone, your coming on to them, and they go for it, your not going to then hold back until you have sufficiently read their mind to find out what exactly they are thinking are you?

Don't make out that 'not wanting to upset someone' is the same as 'finding it impossible to say no to someone' because it's not even close. If that was the case, then every person who has ever had a 'pity fuck' could potentially be a rapist, and then we'd all be in a world of shit.

 

[erykweb]

Seduction might be the female version of rape. Seeing a woman's mind is stronger than the other and will put him to shame.

But then, rape traumatizes a person and is illegal. There's no law against seduction.

Not to be pedantic, but the "female" version of rape, is rape. Anyone of any gender/sex can rape anyone of any gender/sex. Plus, genders other than women can seduce people.

Sadly under uk law you need to have a penis to rape somebody and therefore a woman cannot rape anyone.

There has been a few times in the US where a woman has been convicted of rape... But in all of those cases the man was drugged. There is already such a thing, it is just not that common.

I am sure there are more cases than that. Remember being a teenager and getting an errection even when you didnt really want to have one? Now imagine a woman hopping on it, a woman you didnt particularly want to have sex with...

Another way a man can get raped without being "drugged" -

Penetration by an errect penis is not a prerequisite to being raped. Most court systems actually use the term "sexual assault" anyway. All a woman has to do to "rape" a man is somehow force him into a sexual situation he does not want to be in. She could fondle him, she could force him to fondle her, she could rub her genitalia on him, penetrate the anus with a finger/object etc...

Well, yes, but I wasn't going to go that in depth with it. Sexual assault and rape are, however, two completely different things, each with their own set of criteria and punishment severity. So if a woman committed object rape, she would obviously do more time than if she had only fondled someone. There is a clear distinction there.

 

[Sucal]

2. To persuade or induce to have sexual intercourse...I don't see how persuading someone to sleep with you is unethical.

There's always a difference between the dictionary meaning of a word and how its used. In addition, there is always a grey area with certain types of seductions and similar, depend on where and when it happens or the motives of the people involved. For example, say I (despite the fact I still can't even work out how to flirt) ask a girl over for dinner. I do a home cooked meal, play the silly music and do that whole romantic cliche thing some find romantic. That would be a good style seduction.

Lets change the situation. I'm the girls boss. We've been working together on some big presentation or some crap for a few nights now. Note that this girl really is the best person for the job, and so I didn't set this up on purpose. We win the presentation, and as a reward (something I may or may not have as a company practise) I invite her over for a home cooked meal. Without realising it i put the moves on her, and then things end up as type 1).

Now lets take type 3. There is a girl, cute girl, who I happen to know is having troubles with her boyfriend over her working hours. She's cute, and so I want to hit that. So when there is a big presentation coming up, I ask her to work with me on it. I deliberately lose track of the time/keep her working late over a period of a couple of weeks, something that can be excused by the working on the presentation/crunch time. The fact that I'm doing it to make her boyfriend look worse and worse, as she seems him as completely not understanding the importance of the contract/ doesn't understand why she loves the job so much.

I on the other hand, are 'reluctant' to talk about it, even as I act reasonable and calm about everything, as well as 'trying' to get her to go home and talk it out with him, (despite manoeuvring it subtly so she can't). As the crunch time the stress rises and builds, slowly causing their home life to be wrecked ruined (which was the plan on my part). Then we win the contract, and as a reward I take her out for dinner. For the sake of this there was no booze or anything, merely a celebratory meal between friends and co-workers due to a job well done. Then I invite her back to help me finish everything up, and we end up having sex.

The entire thing was planned for by me. I didn't do anything illegal or immoral, nor did I in any way shape or form do anything that could be considered compulsion or forcing her. Nor did I even attempt at using booze or similar substances. But the fact of the matter was that I deliberately broke apart her marriage/relationship/whatever just so I could get laid. Depending on the type of person I was, I might not even bother calling her back/start bragging about everything I did the next day. Especially since I'm her boss (despite in no way shape or form using this to pressure her).

While I didn't do anything illegal, I can see about a dozen rules of morality and similar broken to do so.

4) This scenario is exactly the same, and it was YOUR girl/partner that I ruined the relationship so I could sleep with.

5) Same as 4) only this time I'm your best friend, despite being her boss (I might have given her the job).

 

[Baresark]

look down.

 

[Baresark]

snip

I don't agree with your version of definition 1. You have not done anything untowards. She is well within her right to say no. And relationships build based on such things as you describe, there is no negativity about the practice.

OT: After reading a bunch of comments, I guess people don't really understand that rape is about power, and has little to do with the act of sex. Sex is merely the chosen took to elicit your power over someone else. This happens in the world and we see this exact same situation with prison rape.

That is why there are rules, where if a girl resists or says no, but you continue anyway, it is then rape. If she says yes, but then doesn't like how she feels afterwards, it's not rape. She said yes and she willingly continued with the act.

Laws are meant to exist outside emotion and to make up for the shortcomings that humans have in leading with their emotions. That is why a Jury of your peers is always people not involved in the situation. If it's a rape case, the defense asks the jurors things like if they had been raped before. This is because if a potential Juror has been raped, then they will instantaneously come to sympathize with the victim and may see the defendant as a rapist, even if there is no evidence to support that claim.

 

[Sucal]

snip

Oh I know. The first one was an example of a seduction that was both moral and 'good'. While none of the other ones were rape, they were still examples of a more 'immoral/less ethical' seduction then the first one, but even then they can still be considered good in certain circumstances. Well except for number three, depending if they broke the relationship up just for a single night of sex, or if they intended for it to be a relationship.

I suppose I was more off topic though, replying more to the person I quoted who thought there was no such thing as an immoral or unethical seduction. Figured it would be better then saying, 'slip them some spanish fly or similar, THEN seduce them while out of their right mind.