Do you torrent? (pun most definitely intended)

[perfectimo]

I don't steal it. I try it, then buy it or leave it.

So the developer gave you permission?

What are you trying to prove here? I have no one's permission, but in order to get my money's worth, I have to make the decision myself. How do I know it's something I would enjoy if I haven't tried it? I can't rent it, I can't play it at "mates", I can't play it at the store, the demos are usually nonexistent or utterly lacking, if I buy it and I don't like it I can't return it, etc etc etc.

I guess in your eyes it doesn't justify "stealing", but I sure as hell am not going to waste my money. And as I said, I don't do the developers any harm. If I like it, I buy it. If I don't, I dump it. I just want to get my money's worth.

Also, did you notice how many times I wrote "I", in this post?

What I was trying to prove is that stealing is taking something without permission.

You actually are doing the developer harm because had you not stolen that game you would have bought it.

I didn't really notice at first but there are quite a few eyes in your post.

 

[jim_doki]

oh, i get it now.

Your "try before you buy" argument works because games are too expensive for you to risk on.

get a job. a replenishable income often takes care of money risks.

If you have a job, then i want you to wonder what it would feel like to work for free unwillingly, because that's the position you put developers in. I sympathise with you, i do, but there are plenty of legal ways to test a game out. demos are one, buy magazines with demo disks, they're often better than downloadables. get opinions on forums, watch youtube videos, or my personal favorite

MAKE SOME FRIENDS

 

[Mariena]

I don't steal it. I try it, then buy it or leave it.

So the developer gave you permission?

What are you trying to prove here? I have no one's permission, but in order to get my money's worth, I have to make the decision myself. How do I know it's something I would enjoy if I haven't tried it? I can't rent it, I can't play it at "mates", I can't play it at the store, the demos are usually nonexistent or utterly lacking, if I buy it and I don't like it I can't return it, etc etc etc.

I guess in your eyes it doesn't justify "stealing", but I sure as hell am not going to waste my money. And as I said, I don't do the developers any harm. If I like it, I buy it. If I don't, I dump it. I just want to get my money's worth.

Also, did you notice how many times I wrote "I", in this post?

What I was trying to prove is that stealing is taking something without permission.

You actually are doing the developer harm because had you not stolen that game you would have bought it.

I didn't really notice at first but there are quite a few eyes in your post.

That is incorrect. I would not have bought the game if I wasn't able to try it out.
"So you're saying you would have stuck to free games and stop playing retail PC games altogether?"

Yes, I would probably have moved on to consoles where you can, gasp, rent games or return games. Though maybe not entirely move on to consoles, as I would still be influenced to buy certain games (I take the opinions of the people in my gaming community, that have the same interests, a whole lot more seriously than some sponsored review) and I suppose I would have to trust the demos more blindly if I had the impression it was any good.

But since this is not the case, I can get my money's worth.
Solutions (imo)?

A. Developers and publishers will have to develop higher quality games to earn a reputation. I blindly buy Stardock games as I *know* (without knowing) they are good. I'm a Stardock fangirl! They also don't use any nonsense DRM, Securom or Starforce.
B. Allow me to rent and or return games!
C. Anything else?

I don't care how practical these 'solutions' are.

Your "try before you buy" argument works because games are too expensive for you to risk on.

get a job. a replenishable income often takes care of money risks.

I have a job, and a fairly good one too I might add. However, I don't want to waste any cash. That's all. If I wanted to do that, I might as well intentionally lose my wallet.

 

[jim_doki]

a) how do you expect publishers to develop a following if you keep stealing their stuff? regardless of how good a game is, if it doesn't sell, company goes bye bye

2) that is a great idea. talk to your local video store. At the same time, it's not the publisher's fault that they haven't cornered the rental market, expecially when people could just walk away with the game, costing the store money

 

[perfectimo]

That is incorrect. I would not have bought the game if I wasn't able to try it out.
"So you're saying you would have stuck to free games and stop playing retail PC games altogether?"

I'll just take those words out of my mouth and give them back.... here you go.

You would have to buy the game if you wanted to see what it was like and had no other way.

 

[Ronwue]

I torrent for sampling purposes. I would be quitting gaming altogether if I had to pay for all the crap I've had to go through. In a perfect universe I bet everyone would get their games legally. Also, in a perfect universe all games would be good. However this is not a perfect universe, there are games that suck so bad you take up Pen and Paper, and I for one am actually proud of dodging some traps that the game developers have posted up. On the other hand the thing is that it is exactly like book lending, or borrowing. Take the torrents as a "universal library". And for all those saying copyright violation is wrong I say, releasing a shitty game is worse.

a) how do you expect publishers to develop a following if you keep stealing their stuff? regardless of how good a game is, if it doesn't sell, company goes bye bye

2) that is a great idea. talk to your local video store. At the same time, it's not the publisher's fault that they haven't cornered the rental market, expecially when people could just walk away with the game, costing the store money

This may come as a shock but most people buy the game in the offset they like it. In the unlikely attempt that the game is actually good, they will buy it more. The only companies going bye bye, would be those that put up mediocre stuff.

 

[jim_doki]

everyone seems to want to blame the developers for not being good enough to pay for

tuff titty

in this world you have to pay for shit unless it's given freely. I personally would like to have my food given to me for free. i dont

 

[Mariena]

a) how do you expect publishers to develop a following if you keep stealing their stuff? regardless of how good a game is, if it doesn't sell, company goes bye bye

They create a following by creating good games. How many times must I explan it to you? If the game is good, I buy it. They get money. They survive. You're continously mistaking me for someone who downloads the game, enjoys the game and then doesn't buy it after enjoying it. I *do* buy the game, but only if I enjoy it!

I'm sorry that I don't blindly buy games, but that's the fault of the developers. I used to blindly buy games, but after having to deal with so many shitty ones, I want to make sure it's not shit before I spend money on it. Can you blame me for being cautious (I'm sure you'll find a reason, though)?

The game (and movie industry too, I guess?) industry seems to be the only industry where the developer can get away with making a shitty game. Imagine if someone, for example, brought out.. a.. uhm.. TV. A TV that would constantly break down, totally not live up to expectations and all that. People would be angry, and either have it repaired immediately or return it. In this industry, you can kiss your money goodbye and hope the developers will bring out a patch in the next 6 months that might fix your problems.

 

[Ronwue]

everyone seems to want to blame the developers for not being good enough to pay for

tuff titty

in this world you have to pay for shit unless it's given freely. I personally would like to have my food given to me for free. i dont

I don't want to blame the developers for a shitty game. I blame the developers for a shitty game. Who was I going to blame cause they weren't able to put something out that's moderately good. And you don't really "have" to pay for shit (and by shit I mean bad things). You can torrent it.

 

[jim_doki]

im all for being causious, but you are STEALING. lets put this simply. If you're at Mcdonalds and you order a hamburger. Do you eat it first, taking a few bites, decide it's not worth it and not pay?

 

[perfectimo]

everyone seems to want to blame the developers for not being good enough to pay for

tuff titty

in this world you have to pay for shit unless it's given freely. I personally would like to have my food given to me for free. i dont

I don't. I'm on your side.

It may seem strange since this is my thread and I torrent but I have reasons which I believe are understandable even by those who don't torrent.

 

[Mariena]

im all for being causious, but you are STEALING. lets put this simply. If you're at Mcdonalds and you order a hamburger. Do you eat it first, taking a few bites, decide it's not worth it and not pay?

You're just mistaken that the hamburger is tangible (and consumable). Software is not.

 

[jim_doki]

tangible or not, do you do it?

tangibility doesn't enter into it. you said you sampled the product before you paid, im asking if that applies to everything you do or just games

 

[Mariena]

tangible or not, do you do it?

tangibility doesn't enter into it. you said you sampled the product before you paid, im asking if that applies to everything you do or just games

Just software, because it doesn't harm anyone. Once more, if I like it, I buy it.

If I sample a hamburger and then decide it's disgusting.. I would have consumed the product and I could no longer return the product because it has been altered, and all that. It's same for games with a CD key. You buy the game, use the key and then decide it's not worth it; that's why you can't return those games (though I don't see a reason why you wouldn't be able to return a product without online CD key authentication, because the CD key wouldn't actually be 'used').

If you copy the game, play it and then decide to dump, you haven't *used* or *consumed* anything.

 

[jim_doki]

so, what you are saying is because you can copy it and play it for free, you should have that right? regardless of whether you pay for it in the end or not, its ok for you to steal something because "it doesn't hurt anyone" even though it quite clearly does?

 

[thedo12]

What I was trying to prove is that stealing is taking something without permission.

You actually are doing the developer harm because had you not stolen that game you would have bought it.

I didn't really notice at first but there are quite a few eyes in your post.

youre assumming becasue we torrent something, we have 100 percent of the time bought the pyshical representation of said item.

This is certainly not true, personaly I torrent music, and it is perfectly legal to do so in my country (canada) however I never once bought a music cd before I had a computer in my household (age 14) the reason being I have a very peculier taste in music.And to me buying a 20$ cd was a waste of money when I only liked one song on said cd.

Now my personal opinion is that torrenting all items should be made legal, since it is not stealing just the copying of information.Developers will have to find new ways to make money or be left behind, we live in the information age, deal with it.

 

[Mariena]

so, what you are saying is because you can copy it and play it for free, you should have that right? regardless of whether you pay for it in the end or not, its ok for you to steal something because "it doesn't hurt anyone" even though it quite clearly does?

Dear god, this is worse than an atheist vs Christian debate.

You have my view, you have my point. Done. It doesn't hurt anyone because I pay for it. It only hurts the developer if I don't pay for the game I so very much enjoyed. Which I don't.

All you're saying is that I should buy games even if they're a horribly putrid piece of crap. I've made all my damn points in my past few posts and although I'm getting tired of repeating myself, I obviously can't get it through your head. This is probably the only industry where you have to deal with it. You can't return a shitty product, even though if it was *anything* else, like a TV, or a car, or a telephone, whatever, you would be able to.

It "hurts" them because you *expect* me to put up with shitty products.

 

[jim_doki]

Now my personal opinion is that torrenting all items should be made legal, since it is not stealing just the copying of information.Developers will have to find new ways to make money or be left behind, we live in the information age, deal with it.

Translation:
I deserve free shit because it's there, regardless of who gets hurt. in the times we are living in it's the industry's fault I'm stealing from them

 

[jim_doki]

It "hurts" them because you *expect* me to put up with shitty products.

thats called being a consumer. sometimes you win, sometimes you dont. this is why you do research, like I mentioned several posts ago. the trick is to stop buying once they let you down

 

[Zephirius]

Yes, I torrent games, movies, tv-shows and more.
I'd have to say it's because I can't be bothered to pay 60 euros for something I will play for a week. Movies and TV-shows I torrent because I'm lazy, don't like the theater and/or they're hard to find on DVD. If I did buy every single game I want I'd be flat broke with these kinds of 1930's prices. I think most games are far too expensive for their own good. I hear that it's wrong. I don't think it's right, but well, what can one do? I can't afford to buy everything I want to play. And if anyone says 'so don't play it'... You're not me. I tend to be done with games in a matter of days, not weeks. I can't spend 50-60 euros for new games every few days, though admittedly I often play older games that I can't be bothered to check the shop for. Laziness again.