Do you vote?
- Thread starter KeyMaster45
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I don't believe welfare states are sustainable and still America's isn't like the ones in Europe. Spending more and more doesn't make sense with an anti-business president and trillions in debt. That's my main problem with Obama. Far left may be more appropriate than socialist. Under Obama's presidency more people are using food stamps than ever and people who don't need them have them. Pointless spending is what I hate the most. Food stamps are also easier than ever to get.Gerishnakov said:
I'm in Canada and I've voted in every federal and provincial election and almost every municipal election(which typically get less than 30% turnout in every town I lived in) since I turned 18 many, many moons ago. The few muni elections I missed were because of me not getting to the early ballots fast enough if I was going out of town.
I'm of the opinion that unless you vote, you have no right to complain about the government at all. Whether the party/politician you voted for got in or not you've done what your constitution allows you to do and what countless soldiers/citizens have died to give you the privilege of doing in relative safety.
I'm of the opinion that unless you vote, you have no right to complain about the government at all. Whether the party/politician you voted for got in or not you've done what your constitution allows you to do and what countless soldiers/citizens have died to give you the privilege of doing in relative safety.
There's this dude around town who's a big Ron Paul fan. Every time he runs for President, he gets really pissed that he doesn't get the Republican nomination.KeyMaster45 said:
"Well, did you vote for him?"
"Voting is for sheeple!"
Yeah. Just amused me in relation to your guy.
Hey, there's this awesome guy who will change America, but I don't vote. WTF WHY DOES NOBODY VOTE FOR HIM?????
If you're an American, and your profile says you are, complaining is part of your inalienable right to free speech. Everyone has a right to complain.
I would say your best option is to find a candidate you actually support and help him get elected, even if it means volunteering yourself. Even if that means you have to go long-term, which is why most people don't do it. Specifically America. We as a nation are very short-term and reactionary (and many other nations are, so it's not like I'm picking solely on the USA).
Well, not really, no. It is the same as saying you're okay with the majority, who may or may not vote for the same person. Not to mention, voting doesn't really tell the people in power what they want. You can complain that people are saying they support the policies or that you feel they can continue to do as they please.
Plus, consider the alternative. By that logic, aren't you therefore endorsing the policies of the people you vote for? Sneding the message that you're okay with it?
For example, I live in the state of Senator Pat Leahy. He's been behind some pretty destructive legislation, including the Patriot Act, the Induce Act, and PIPA. Now, under your model of " vote for the other guy, or threaten to," my option is then to threaten to vote for a guy who not only supports those options but believes in the Tea Party. Any affirmative vote seems to be destructive, n'est pas?
Or, in another fashion, look at Bush in the 2004 elections. The exit polls showed people overwhelmingly didn't support him on the economy, on the war, on spending, etc. They voted for him because they didn't like the thought of consenting adults having relations with the same sex. What's really the message here, aside from the fact that if you can push one issue, you can win?
I vote, and I try and be active in my local and state political communities.
Why? I'd rathe do something than nothing, at the most basic level.
Yes, I vote. I use national elections to vote for my principles, I use local elections to vote for what actually affects me.
In other words, I'll vote libertarian in the national election. For local elections, I actually see who is running and what they will bring to the table if/when they are elected. The same goes for issues, but those are usually from local politics too. I try not to vote along one party line locally because it's not as much about the politics of a large national organization as much as it is about the qualities of the individual candidates (at least in my area).
In other words, I'll vote libertarian in the national election. For local elections, I actually see who is running and what they will bring to the table if/when they are elected. The same goes for issues, but those are usually from local politics too. I try not to vote along one party line locally because it's not as much about the politics of a large national organization as much as it is about the qualities of the individual candidates (at least in my area).
If welfare states are unsustainable why does the UK have a better credit rating than the US and a lower debt-to-GDP ratio? Yes, the US 'welfare system' isn't like those in Europe, it's much worse and costs a fraction of the amount. US spending is so high because of the military. Having the world's most kick-ass, technologically advanced military has to come from somewhere my friend.NotSoLoneWanderer said:
What does that sentence even mean? How is Obama anti-business? You never explained that original point of yours. There is a great deal of evidence that increasing government spending on the right things actually stimulates an economy. I assume you've heard of FDR's New Deal, right? That helped you guys go into, and come out of, WW2 pretty sweetly.NotSoLoneWanderer said:
Far left on what? Economics, society, the street?NotSoLoneWanderer said:
So you're going to blame that on the current guy, not the president before him who spent 8 years and more money than you had on two wars, one of which is widely recognised as illegal by the rest of the world.NotSoLoneWanderer said:
Deluge of abuse? Nope, I'm a very nice person if your were to ever meet me. I'm talking about how Obama wants to increase spending when it can't be sustained. I'm not privy to British politics. My problem is just with Obama's increased spending during a recession while America is in deep debt. A country can keep on affording to spend on welfare but that doesn't fix the problem. Welfare is a short term solution for someone without the means to care for themselves. Long term solutions should be a nations goal rather than paying for everything.Gerishnakov said:
Right and in either of the places in which I am/can register to vote, the Lib Dem representative still has no realistic chance of winning, so it's still a two horse race. Barring the fact that a vote for them would utlimately be fruitless, I find my outlook alings much closer to Labour's general policies anyway. And really? If there were a ever a worse time to vote Lib Dem when they're currently in bed with the Tory's I fail to see it. The people who voted tactically have seen it all go horribly wrong; Clegg sold his voters out for a few scraps of power and most of his cabinet followed suit. Rest assured, even if I could vote Lib Dem, I wouldn't. Though in the grand scheme of things it's not like my vote counts for much anyway, whether it be lesser of two or three evils.Gerishnakov said:
I live in Israel, and I haven't voted yet because I haven't had a chance since i turned 18 last year. But come next elections, you can bet your sweet ass I'll vote. The government's down the shitter, and I'm not gonna just sit by and fume silently, fuck no.
I concede to your logic. I don't have all the information at hand to explain my points properly at the moment. You win. I'm going to go re-educate on myself on the Obama presidency. Hope this isn't coming off as sarcastic.Gerishnakov said:
Who would I vote for? There are no candidates in our elections, just a load of narcissistic liars.
You vote for the party that best represents you. Unless you start your own party your not going to fully identify with any other party, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote.aPod said:
In fact, if you don't vote, then you have no right to complain about pretty much anything. I wonder how many people complaining about SOPA and PIPA actually voted last election (of those that could vote).
Edit - I guess it seems pretty obvious, but yes, I do vote. I may believe no part is perfect, but I vote for the best of a bad bunch, which is better than nothing.
It's all good natured, this is The Escapist after all, not Congress or the House of Commons!NotSoLoneWanderer said:
I'm afraid welfare just simply isn't a short term solution for many people, such as the disabled. I can certainly see where you're coming from if we're talking about the merely unemployed. In this day and age I believe many people have simply lost the aptitude and attitude necessary for honest work. Why that has come about is a topic for another thread.
This is beside the point with Obama though. What he's tried to do with 'Obamacare' is commendable, moving towards free healthcare for all is the mark of a civilised nation, just as the situation is with education, policing, or the military. However, you're right. Spending on things such as that is not going to improve the economy. Obama should be spending on great infrastructure improvements across the US, things only the federal government can do.
Almost 18 here in Australia, so soon, very soon.
Then everyone shall fear MY MIGHTY PEN SKILLS!
Bwahahahahaha...I'll be doing it in November, so you don't have to fear until then.
Then everyone shall fear MY MIGHTY PEN SKILLS!
Bwahahahahaha...I'll be doing it in November, so you don't have to fear until then.
This was never a competition buddy, merely a debate. If you're being sincere about your intentions then good for you, anyone willing to further educate themselves deserves merit, a principle I hold myself to as well.NotSoLoneWanderer said:
Awe you see, I live in Canada where we still use tradition paper ballets. Does the American machine not allow an abstain option or anything? If it forces you to choose between the two candidates and only the two candidates that doesn't seem truly democratic.spartan231490 said:I do. and in the US, you don't need to spoil the ballet, you can write in a nonsense vote. Mickey mouse is a popular protest vote. Also, 30 percent of american voters have no physical ballet to spoil. 30% of US votes are counted by electronic machines with no paper record to spoil. 60% are counted by electronic voting machines.Kaytastrophe said:I don't know how many people will read this but let me offer those of you who don't want to vote because you don't like any of the candidates a suggestion. Vote but abstain (or spoil your ballet). When the government sees that you didn't vote they see you as just being lazy or indifferent and as such they are not going to try and get you to vote for them because you're seen as lazy and an absentee voter. You never made your voice heard you gave up your say. However if you spoil your ballet you clearly put the effort into researching candidates and still went to vote but voted for no one because you didn't like any of the candidates. How legitimate would it look if lets say 100% of the nation voted in an election and the winning party got 30% of the total votes, opposition 20% and 50% spoiled or abstained. By spoiling instead not voting your showing an interest in politics and exercising your vote however none of the candidates appealed to you. That's just my opinion.
This is on the second page of the thread though...and no one reads the second page
"crazyness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" can't disagree, voting is never a waste of time. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.saint of m said:Not really. I would argue not only that both are equally equal, but further: if you have the choice between getting murdered or getting raped, what do you choose? I choose to run away or fight back. There are other options. 3rd party. Write in. And they aren't pipe dreams anymore. You don't need the deep pockets of a political party to win an election anymore, thanks to the internet you could run a decent campaign for free. Youtube and facebook is more than enough to reach the masses, and both are free. The world is changing, we need to shed our assumptions about politics that were made during an era without the internet. The internet has changed everything, especially politics.KeyMaster45 said:
UK - Not yet. I've just turned 18. Though I have a feeling that I will end up not voting for anyone anyway.
I live in the UK and I also vote. I didn't vote in the 2001 election (my first eligible one) because of the cost. I had just moved to another part of the country and because of the archaic way the UK electoral registry works I would have had to travel a 100+ miles and waste about £40 to vote. That pissed me off, oh and I was also working that day. All the others I have voted in, even the local elections whose turn out are so low they make the American system seem like a vabriant democracy.
