Do you vote?

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agent_orange420

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Sep 30, 2011
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UK - yep i vote. I think that it should be compulsory for people to vote, but only if there is a "non of the above" option, The turn out here for voting is terrible.

Also think that MP's should have their wages set (at minimum wage lol!) then get bonus based on how much they win their constituancy by. Would then hopefuly mean poeple getting into politics becuase they want to make a difference, rather than as a good career option and a tax dodge.
 

Sandytimeman

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Jan 14, 2011
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I do vote, though only started recently. Lately I felt like, things I was a part of made a difference. That in numbers we the people could override the corruption and internal buddy deals of Washington and Business Interests. We as a group can help tear those things apart.

How?

By voting, or rather the threat of not voting for someone currently in office. If you call someone and say, hey I'm a registered voter..I'm not going to vote for you because of your stance on X. Well if enough people do that they are literally forced to change their stance, not because that's what a representative is supposed to do when the people he is representing want him to, but because he needs a job and doesn't want to lose it.
 

hawkeye52

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Jul 17, 2009
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They really should have a box in the voting polls which says none of these candidates represent my opinion. Although not helping the actual election with the votes it would be powerful evidence which shows that there are a lot of people who are disenfranchised with the current voting system and maybe get parties to think more about their core policies
 

peruvianskys

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Jun 8, 2011
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Read this essay entitled "Why I Would Not Vote Against Hitler" by Wendy McElroy.

So, returning to the question of voting for Hitler: purely for the sake of argument, I'll grant the possibility that I could morally cast a ballot. Yet even then, I would still refuse to vote against him. Why? Because the essential problem is not Hitler, but the institutional framework that allows a Hitler to grasp a monopoly on power. Without the state to back him up and an election to give him legitimized power, Hitler would have been, at most, the leader of some ragged thugs who mugged people in back alleys. Voting for or against Hitler would only strengthen the institutional framework that produced him - a framework that would produce another of his ilk in two seconds.
http://www.voluntaryist.com/articles/085b.html

American politics are so institutionally flawed that voting for one traditional party candidate or the other does more harm than good by strengthening the inherently flawed electoral system. I will not vote until I feel as though my ballot will achieve anything except more broken party politics. The choice right now is neo-conservative #1 or neo-conservative #2 and it's been that way since maybe 1918. We haven't had a president who has promised to do anything except declare war and pillage the citizenry since. To give legitimacy to that disgusting machine through voting is disgusting.
 

Creator002

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Aug 30, 2010
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Yes, because in Australia it's required by law. During the last election, over-18 year olds risked a $200+ fine for not enrolling. I didn't enrol and didn't get any fine, but I then enrolled a few weeks later. Still have yet to wait for another election for my first voting experience.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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I vote, but I don't really see the point after my political party got crushed in the last election with 3.9% of the votes. That is 0.1% less than what they need to have any power at all. However I will vote and hope that they get at least 4% this year.
 

Trivun

Stabat mater dolorosa
Dec 13, 2008
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Gerishnakov said:
Trivun said:
I'm a Lib Dem, but I hate what the party has become in the Coalition - I wouldn't vote for them any more if it was a party thing.
Why wouldn't you vote for the party anymore? Do you really think we're going to be stuck in our current situation forever more? The Lib Dems are still the most left wing of the three main UK parties, the Greens don't even come close and if you want examples of loony-lefties and woolly liberals that's where you'll find them.

The party will change again, but it takes people like us being active at the grass-roots to make that change.
I don't mean I'll never vote for them again, I just reckon there needs to be serious change. The fact is that the upper tiers of the party are too cosy in bed with the Tories, and while the Tories do have some good ideas (and I think they are going about handling the recession much better than Labour would - particularly the benefits cap), they aren't prepared as much to do anything about the bankers' bonuses (RBS aside) and the key problems in regulating the financial sector. Basically, the Lib Dem leaders are pushing too far to the right, while it's us at the grassroots level who are trying to keep them more left wing. I agree we won't be stuck in this forever, but the example being set by the leaders of the Lib Dem party to the next generation of members isn't a good one. Clegg needs to have his arse kicked into gear and start being a lot harder and more firm with the promises the party made back in the election, deal with the student issues (that were a key part of their manifesto), and start coming up with ideas to deal with the financial sector - whether regulation comes under the liberal manifesto or not. Then maybe I'll start having some faith in the party leadership again...
 

disappointed

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Sep 14, 2011
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The attitude of the non-voters seems to be:

I am important.
No candidate meets my standards.
I shall do nothing.
Because I am important, candidates shall beat a path to my door, begging for my support.

It's not happening. If you don't get involved in politics, you don't change anything and thus tacitly support the status quo, and no amount of claiming that your inaction constitutes "sticking it to the man" will change that.

There are always third, fourth and fifth parties to vote for. True, they won't win but the votes do get counted so your voice is heard. If you can't accept that the guy you vote for isn't necessarily going to win then you probably aren't old enough to vote. And, you know, these big parties that you hate so much aren't impenetrable fortresses. You can join them and change them from the inside. You can form single issue campaign groups to put pressure on all parties to shift their policies.

If there really isn't anyone whose views are remotely close to yours then start your own party. Run yourself. Get involved. Do something! Doing nothing is not a form of resistance.

Not voting is like saying I walk everywhere because cars aren't fast enough.
 

TitanDrone

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Jul 13, 2011
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I used to vote. My first participation in a general election I helped realise a dream - to get a self-described "deliberately employment-shy person" into our parliament. What had started as a joke years before had eventually snow-balled into the necessary votes to give the independent a seat.

And this guy was snarky... We used to have public financing where I live. Meaning each candidate or group (party) would have to get a certain number of validated signatures in order for them to be electable - on the ballot. Once support has been proven, each candidate is allotted some cash to create a splash, shake hands, ring doorbells, print posters and all that. This guy held voter rallies handing out luxury beer and promising things like "not headwind on the bike-paths," and "good weather all the time." He later had to stop handing out beer because he gave up drinking after realising he was an alcoholic, but he made up for it by handing out luxury candy instead.

As I said, he was eventually elected and then it got real... The established politicians called it everything from "a refreshing criticism of the lack of connectivity with the public," to "a failure of democracy and a catastrophe." The irony is, that these guys who did this as a stunt got the one seat that was going to be the swing-vote on many issues. They perfectly illustrated how dangerous "block-politics" can be in a parliamentary system. Block-politics arguably have the downside of forcing individual candidates to compromise on local loyalties in favour of party policies - touting the party line.

That was in 1994. I have since attempted to gather enthusiasm whenever there is an election but I just cannot. The whole purpose is to select and elect the best people to govern. To partake in parliament from where the government is formed. The ability to create laws and implement them gets shut down by block-politics. The responsibility is shifted higher up the chain, the relevance of what is local government is zero because there is no power there.

Without the power to create new laws and implement them, what is the point. There appears to be little emphasis on quality control... How many laws created, how many rulings based on that law, how many failed applications of the rule and so on... In stead we focus on voting records of individual politicians as a measure of how much they sell out when the party boss shakes his or her fists at the rank'n'file.
From an EU perspective - of which my country is a non-contributing member - things are even worse. In the US at least there appears to be a long tradition of states working together in a union. That is a relatively new thing in European politics and has led to something baffling.

In Europe, the European Parliament is not a parliament... In the sense that a parliament can suggest, debate, vote on and make into law. That power resides with the Commission - a ruling body of ONE Commissioner from each member state appointed by the Government of each member state.
This means that the ENTIRE European Parliament, the elections, the candidates the debates, the translators - the whole thing - is nonsensical because the resulting body does not have the power to suggest, or vote into law. They can however debate the suggestions (bills) coming down from the Commission, and BOY do they... Endlessly chiming on and on in their respective dialects as extremely well paid translators do a confuse-a-cat on them and the public...
And the silliness does not stop there no no no. Every so often, the whole thing - all 2500 members and staff are MOVED between Strasbourg in France and Brussels in Belgium (a country that recently spent 450 days WITHOUT ANY GOVERNMENT THEMSELVES DESPITE HOLDING ELECTIONS.) This periodic moving around 200 miles costs around 2-300 million dollars a year AND (naturally) results in massive tax deductions for the staff and politicians as they travel to and fro. Not surprisingly, attempts to curb the deductions have ALL failed because, well, that is the only thing members of the parliament actually have a say over - how much loot they can get.

To have a say in what laws and policies the european union implements, I have to vote for a candidate, hope he gets one of 179 seats in the Danish parliament. Once there, my candidate would then have to get into a coalition that can form a government before they in turn can appoint ONE EU-Commissar (YES that IS the correct translation, a COMMISSAR.) Then I would have to trust that this person not only reflects my regional governments views, I would have to do it in the dark because - surprise - the meetings are not open to the public and records are not subject to the same rules of openness that help ensure public oversight in local government. This practice has the arguable side effect of leaving journalists in the dark, maybe forcing them to buddy up to the politicians for information.

So I hope you can understand why I did not vote last time there was an election in my country. I have done on many occasions because I see it as the duty of all citizens in a representative democracy to make an effort to appreciate the gift of influence - whatever small it may be.
I do not vote in my country's general elections because my country has added the The European Convention on Human Rights to our constitution. The Convention is from 1950, not EU-related, and pre-dates the Union. This has the effect of allowing any citizen the right to overstep my country's supreme court rulings and seek justice outside the country's legal system - in effect an preventive tool against internal corruption of the courts. The downside is that any national laws that cover the same area become less important.
I feel confident in not voting because I do not live in a representative democracy any longer. I live in a fake democracy where the actual laws that influence my life are made, interpreted, and enforced by people that are not appointed through the process I am invited to take part in. For the reasons I gave earlier, my vote, literally, does... not... matter. I can vote for ANY candidate for the EU parliament and it will not make ANY impact on the wording of ANY law that I am supposed to comply by.

So I am inclined to agree with the George Carlin comedy routine. I do not vote because that would make me an idiot (a person who does not understand politics.)

The danger and downside of this stance is that people like me can be swept away by the show. We are easily swayed by superficial arguments, fancy slogans, shiny uniforms and lets not forget - charismatic personalities. This has, arguably, created a political alpha-male that is utterly incapable of governing but has excellent plumage - a political bird of paradise that struts his stuff to impress potential voters in a dance that ultimately ends in someone getting screwed.

Also: Richard Pryor in Brewsters Millions - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXkLs-Xesb4
 

DSK-

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May 13, 2010
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I'm from the UK and I don't vote. I'll probably get bashed for saying this, but I remember when I was younger that my dad once told me that his dad said "You know when a Politician is lying: as soon as he opens his mouth".

I see no reason to vote on anything other than something like a Referendum. I don't really see eye to eye with any of the Parties or MP's.
 

Soods

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Jan 6, 2010
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I live in Finland, and the second round of presidential voting is currently under way. And for some magical reason the second canditate is a homosexual agnostic enviromentalist. Once in a lifetime chance to vote for someone like him.
Read more [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/23/finland-presidential-race-pekka-haavisto_n_1223477.html]
 

thespyisdead

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Jan 25, 2010
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since there is a presidential election going on now in the country that is definitely not US, i would vote, but i am not eligible to vote because i am not a citizen :(

but were i to vote, i would vote for Sauli Niinistö over Pekka Haavisto, cos the guy is gay (and now you know where i live)
 

viranimus

Thread killer
Nov 20, 2009
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I live in the US and I refuse to give credence to a broken system by casting your say of "I approve how this does not work by complying with the structure the failure is built around"


So no I do not vote. as my vote is useless given the structure of the electoral college as well as how easily manipulatable the general populous is that they would even consider voting for Obama, Romney, Gingrich or any of the rest of the useless ineffectual talking heads. Voting is basically nothing more than an appeasement offering to dupe the gullible into thinking they actually have some sort of control or say in their lives.

However... I am not like most people who say they dont vote because it does not matter. Unlike them, I AM a registered voter, and typically the "I dont vote" crowd cant be bothered to register. How can you say the government doesnt give you an adequate choice so by not voting your protesting when the government will never know you didnt vote because you didnt register TO vote.

However, I am for a good write in campaign. So here, Lets push for the best canidate possible in 2012. Please write in your vote for NO CONFIDENCE-VACATE OFFICE for any seats up in 2012. Even if we get enough support to win the general elections, someone will STILL be put into those positions because... the system is broken and really we need public displays of how it is broken so the 80 year old grannie on medicare will take notice and realize something is wrong. The indifferent 18 year old who cant be bothered because none of the canidates speak to them will have proof that the system does not work. So people will finally start to understand that this illusion of freedom/duty/responsibility is nothing more than lip service to keep the gullible from revolting when they realize they have no control over their own existence.

tl;dr- Please vote NO CONFIDENCE-VACATE OFFICE in 2012. It literally is the only logical and even sane choice.
 

Vivi22

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Aug 22, 2010
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aPod said:
By not voting they are making a statement that they don't identify with any of the candidates, they don't see themselves being represented. That's a pretty big deal in a "representative democracy" I think they are doing the right thing by not voting.

So I think you're fundamentally wrong to say not voting means you're satisfied with the way things are.
Couldn't agree more with this, and I generally do vote if I feel there is a candidate worth voting for.

One of the nice things about living in Canada is that while there have historically been two major parties at the federal and provincial levels, they are not the only parties, and others have made major gains at their expense, the most recent federal election being a good example. So even if I don't agree with everything a candidate says, there's generally at least one running for MP who I can get behind enough to go out and cast my vote.

But especially in Canada, I would say if you don't agree with any candidate and don't think any of them should be involved in government, you absolutely should not vote as parties get funding from the government for every vote they receive in a federal election. Even throwing away your vote on a candidate with no chance is still supporting their party directly. So when I talk to people who tell me they don't vote, I have no issue with this. If they aren't being represented then they shouldn't be supporting anyone at all, even with a throw away vote.

And when a party/candidate finally realizes that as much as 50-70% of people aren't voting because their choices are so bad and offer them a real alternative, that'll be a pretty cool day.
 

Greni

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Jun 19, 2011
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I'm an anarchist... so, yeah. The fairy's out of the closet, the emperor has no clothes, there's no difference between shit and feces, knowing that it's your dad with a fake beard kinda ruins the magic. The Easter bunny skipped on home and the seven dwarfs are convicted sex offenders.
The candidates are professional 'truth-benders'; it's their job to get you on their side. It's not that complicated.

My country right or wrong? I just want to live; happy and free.


.
 

Guffe

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Jul 12, 2009
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KeyMaster45 said:
The philosophy I was brought up on is that if you don't vote, then you have little to no right to complain about how those who are elected are doing a poor job.

tl;dr: Do you vote, why or why not?
I have also been raised with the logic that if you don't vote they you can't complain.

By the way where are you from?
Just wondering since the presidental elections are going on in Finland as we speak.

aPod said:
By not voting they are making a statement that they don't identify with any of the candidates, they don't see themselves being represented. That's a pretty big deal in a "representative democracy" I think they are doing the right thing by not voting.

So I think you're fundamentally wrong to say not voting means you're satisfied with the way things are.
Well there's always the possibility of voting "blank"
There's no logic in saying that not voting is stating your opinion...
if you go and vote and put it blank in, then you have stated your opinion, if you don't go and vote at all and say that you have stated your opinion, according to me that's just being lazy.
We migth see things differently but that's the way I see it.

On Topic:
Yes I vote and unless I am unable to vote due to something I'll always go vote.
 

Guffe

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Jul 12, 2009
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Yay, a couple of more finns here on the Escapist!

Soods said:
And for some magical reason the second canditate is a homosexual
thespyisdead said:
Pekka Haavisto, cos the guy is gay
What's up with everyone only talking about him being homosexual? he is a decent politician and we don't know what kind of strange sexual fantasies the other candidates are having with their ladies/secret boyfriends...
I just think it's silly only talking about that.

Actually voted today, didn't know which if of the 3 alternatives to pick until I signed the piece of paper. (3 alternatives = nr.2, nr.6 and blank)
I don't think it'll play a big difference which one becomes president, they're both good politicians and will take care of their job.
Would be niec to put Finland on the map with the first openly homsexual president thou ;)

Sgt Doom said:
(except for the Perussuomalaiset, god no)
HAHAHAHAHAHAA
would've been kinda funny if Soini would be President since no one would be around to have control over them, they would collaps without a leader.
 

devotedsniper

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Dec 28, 2010
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I live in the UK and don't bother the parties always claim they wont do something but then they do, in my eyes there all liars. A good example would be our current government said they wouldn't be raising student tuition fees from the current limit (was something like 3.5k a year), but as soon as they got into power they raised the limit to 9k per year now while student finance covers this it's causing college/sixth formers to not want to go because of the debt (i think it was 9% drop in applicants), i can hardly blame them the 30-40k debt i will have when i finish uni (students already attending uni are still on the old limits) is bad enough.
 

thespyisdead

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Jan 25, 2010
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Guffe said:
What's up with everyone only talking about him being homosexual? he is a decent politician...

I don't think it'll play a big difference which one becomes president, they're both good politicians and will take care of their job.
Would be niec to put Finland on the map with the first openly homsexual president thou ;)
The thing is: how much power does a Finnish president have? jackshit!!! what does she do? smile, wave and handle PR with other countries. in other words a normal person could be a very good presidential candidate, and the country would still be running ...

having a gay president would indeed out finland on the map, but that fame could also become infamy (and trust me: you do not want to be stereotyped, like the finns stereotype the Swedish)