Doctor Who Series 6.1 'The Impossible Astronaut' SPOILERS!

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Sampler

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May 5, 2008
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Is it just me or does anyone else think River is in prison for killing the Doctor?

I think it was the second Angels episode where they introduced she was in prison for murder of someone IMPORTANT - the sledgehammer way the series "hints" at things.

The "no, of course not" line made me think it could actually be River in the space suit, the Doctor recognised his killer after all and she couldn't hit them for mustard yet has shown to be a previous crack shot.

(and comfortable enough in her prowess to shoot off a friends hat from fifty paces without worry of putting the bullet in either his or his stood nearby friends brainboxes)
 

Mikodite

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Sampler said:
Is it just me or does anyone else think River is in prison for killing the Doctor?

I think it was the second Angels episode where they introduced she was in prison for murder of someone IMPORTANT - the sledgehammer way the series "hints" at things.

The "no, of course not" line made me think it could actually be River in the space suit, the Doctor recognised his killer after all and she couldn't hit them for mustard yet has shown to be a previous crack shot.

(and comfortable enough in her prowess to shoot off a friends hat from fifty paces without worry of putting the bullet in either his or his stood nearby friends brainboxes)
I'm with you on this one. considering that in the weeping angels episode when she was asked who she killed she replies with "the greatest man I've ever known." Was it the doctor? It wouldn't surprise me if it was River in that spacesuit at the beach, a younger version of River who might have been a hitman or through the Doctor was some sort of threat that needed to be neutralized.

Now, the character in concept is actually interesting. I mean, assuming this fan theory is correct, that would mean that the first time River meets the Doctor she kills him, as the first time the Doctor meets her she dies so he wouldn't have to: and having someone else die on his account is the closest thing to deliberate murder he is capable of, and this 'knack' for getting people to commit suicide on his behalf is something that, in his words, makes him no better than his psycho ex-friend the Master(or ex-boyfriend if you buy into the Tennant/Simms Fo Yay ;p). From there they go backwards into eachother's timelines, and as we the audience is following this from the Doctor's perspective, we would be watching River deevolve as she knows less and less about him and has less and less experiences with him.

Now, if River was just a more likable character. She comes off as a bit amoral and not very nice, now... the Doctor makes people 'better' as I remember River in the Library episode to actually be a likable character, and I found her despicable in The Impossible Astronaut. That might be the angle, for better or worse.
 

ZeoAssassin

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Sep 16, 2009
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Mikodite said:
Sampler said:
Is it just me or does anyone else think River is in prison for killing the Doctor?

I think it was the second Angels episode where they introduced she was in prison for murder of someone IMPORTANT - the sledgehammer way the series "hints" at things.

The "no, of course not" line made me think it could actually be River in the space suit, the Doctor recognised his killer after all and she couldn't hit them for mustard yet has shown to be a previous crack shot.

(and comfortable enough in her prowess to shoot off a friends hat from fifty paces without worry of putting the bullet in either his or his stood nearby friends brainboxes)
I'm with you on this one. considering that in the weeping angels episode when she was asked who she killed she replies with "the greatest man I've ever known." Was it the doctor? It wouldn't surprise me if it was River in that spacesuit at the beach, a younger version of River who might have been a hitman or through the Doctor was some sort of threat that needed to be neutralized.

Now, the character in concept is actually interesting. I mean, assuming this fan theory is correct, that would mean that the first time River meets the Doctor she kills him, as the first time the Doctor meets her she dies so he wouldn't have to: and having someone else die on his account is the closest thing to deliberate murder he is capable of, and this 'knack' for getting people to commit suicide on his behalf is something that, in his words, makes him no better than his psycho ex-friend the Master(or ex-boyfriend if you buy into the Tennant/Simms Fo Yay ;p). From there they go backwards into eachother's timelines, and as we the audience is following this from the Doctor's perspective, we would be watching River deevolve as she knows less and less about him and has less and less experiences with him.

Now, if River was just a more likable character. She comes off as a bit amoral and not very nice, now... the Doctor makes people 'better' as I remember River in the Library episode to actually be a likable character, and I found her despicable in The Impossible Astronaut. That might be the angle, for better or worse.
well...its not like i don't think that River killing the Doctor is a possibility given what we know. BUT my problem with the thought that she was the astronaut just doesn't make any sense to me because if it were true than why the hell would the authority supposedly imprisoning her for this crime be in the year 5120(ball-park year) prison?

also we never actually see if the River that shoots at the astronaut are missing him/her or just phasing through him/her.(PLUS it was a modern revolver which considering the types of enemies in this show probably wouldn't work anyway)

also considering River claims to have all the Doctors faces it just seems odd to me she only spent time with the Matt Smith version and Tennant for the Library (yeah she could have his 1-9 faces too but whats the point since she will never meet the older versions.
 

redisforever

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Loved it, as did my friends. We are all 15 or 16, and we were damn close to pissing our pants in fear. All because of what is, a kids show. I love this show, so, so much.
 

redisforever

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riversong said:
i wish people would understand the doctor can REGENRATE as many times as he wishes.
But he can only FULLY DIE 13 times.. and he has used 1
I think it's the other way around. He can't come back from full death. And a time lord can usually regenerate 13 times, as enforced by the time lord rules, but since there are no more time lords, I believe it matters no more, and the Doctor can regenerate as much as he wants. But still, he can only die once. In the End of Time, he mentions that if he's killed before regeneration, that's it. Gone.
 

Mikodite

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ZeoAssassin said:
well...its not like i don't think that River killing the Doctor is a possibility given what we know. BUT my problem with the thought that she was the astronaut just doesn't make any sense to me because if it were true than why the hell would the authority supposedly imprisoning her for this crime be in the year 5120(ball-park year) prison?

also we never actually see if the River that shoots at the astronaut are missing him/her or just phasing through him/her.(PLUS it was a modern revolver which considering the types of enemies in this show probably wouldn't work anyway)

also considering River claims to have all the Doctors faces it just seems odd to me she only spent time with the Matt Smith version and Tennant for the Library (yeah she could have his 1-9 faces too but whats the point since she will never meet the older versions.
5120 AD had Time Agents! You know, those people Jack used to work for? They might have been the people that had her tried for his murder.

Uhh... I think someone already mentioned that the space suit in the crate isn't the same one that the Doctor's killer wore... and given that it is possible that you can be in the same place as a past version of yourself it could be possible that River could have been in both areas. Oh, and River is one of those people that carries a weapon on her. She is definitely not a typical Doctor companion... and I'm hesitant to call her that.

As for her knowing the other faces of the Doctor, that could just mean she knows what he looks like in different incarnations. Course, something tells me that when the Library episodes were written no one anticipated David Tennant saying "I quit" and any plans for River to do things with that incarnation were scrapped before you could say "Robert Pattinson lookalike dressed as Carl Fredrickson." Remember, he first meets her when he was still the tenth take, and she does remark "this is the youngest I've ever seen you," in the Library, so she never meet nine and before: just ten and eleven.

Course, remember, River never really died in the Library cuz of this feature on the sonic screwdriver that a future Doctor gave her (that I'm convinced wasn't 'his' screwdriver, just 'a' screwdriver intended for that purpose) preserved her thought patterns so she could be integrated into the Library's computer... take that from what you will.
 

true story

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Oct 17, 2008
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I just noticed something while watching the episode. at the beginning of the episode amy drinks wine with the rest of the gang and yet at the end she tells the doctor she is preggers. holy crap the British support fetal alcohol syndrome
 

Temah

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So, unless they come up with some contrivance as to how he an survive, Doctor Who ends with Matt Smith?
 
Feb 13, 2008
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TimeLord said:
So you weren't shocked when the Doctor was shot mid regeneration and killed instantly?
No, which surprised me.

Something was wrong the whole way through. I don't know how but I picked up something. Possibly a background motif.

It was good, but it really wasn't great.

: Presidential Bathroom: That was pantomime.
Music: I don't know what Murray was working on, but the soundtrack was dull and re-used.
River Song: The "door opening" scene was the first time I ever thought anything other than "Please die".
Amy/Rory: Good moments - but the problem with the Silence is they ruin built up mystery.
Lost style multiple threads: Too much is going on. We really need some resoloution on the multiple threads in the air at the moment.
Nixon: So much more could have been done.

Generally, it just felt like a rush - we weren't stopping on anything to focus and so the bad parts of the show weren't swept away by the good bits.

First episode I've not really like since Starship Titanic. Sad.
 

Spacewolf

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true story said:
I just noticed something while watching the episode. at the beginning of the episode amy drinks wine with the rest of the gang and yet at the end she tells the doctor she is preggers. holy crap the British support fetal alcohol syndrome
a glass of wine every so often is considered to have no detrimental effects and like red wine and cancer may have beneficial effects
 

TimeLord

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riversong said:
i wish people would understand the doctor can REGENRATE as many times as he wishes.
But he can only FULLY DIE 13 times.. and he has used 1
No, originally he could only regenerate 12 times into 13 forms. He can only die once.

That changed and now he can regenerate unlimited times thanks to a throwaway line in the Sarah Jane adventures.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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TimeLord said:
riversong said:
i wish people would understand the doctor can REGENRATE as many times as he wishes.
But he can only FULLY DIE 13 times.. and he has used 1
No, originally he could only regenerate 12 times into 13 forms. He can only die once.

That changed and now he can regenerate unlimited times thanks to a throwaway line in the Sarah Jane adventures.
There's also canonically that he can steal forms (The Deadly Assassin) and prevent his own regeneration (Sound of Drums). Although if the Doctor prevented his regeneration (as the Master did), he can come back as the Master did...
 

TimeLord

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
TimeLord said:
riversong said:
i wish people would understand the doctor can REGENRATE as many times as he wishes.
But he can only FULLY DIE 13 times.. and he has used 1
No, originally he could only regenerate 12 times into 13 forms. He can only die once.

That changed and now he can regenerate unlimited times thanks to a throwaway line in the Sarah Jane adventures.
There's also canonically that he can steal forms (The Deadly Assassin) and prevent his own regeneration (Sound of Drums). Although if the Doctor prevented his regeneration (as the Master did), he can come back as the Master did...
Well yes, but preventing his own regeneration just results in death. So it's a conscious choice. But I don't think the fact that the Master forced his own death had anything to do with his resurrection. Wasn't it more to do with potions/biological science and the Masters DNA? That was the only thing I didn't like about the End of Time; the "Secret Books of Saxon".
 
Feb 13, 2008
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TimeLord said:
Well yes, but preventing his own regeneration just results in death. So it's a conscious choice. But I don't think the fact that the Master forced his own death had anything to do with his resurrection. Wasn't it more to do with potions/biological science and the Masters DNA? That was the only thing I didn't like about the End of Time; the "Secret Books of Saxon".
Oh I thought it was totally "seat of the pants" writing, but now it's been made canonical - there's a way of writing out of it without re-adjusting canon - again.

Because once you weaken canon that much, tension is destroyed because you can just say "Oh, the Metabilis 3 mushroom allows me to beat that - unlike the 3 other times."
 

TimeLord

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
TimeLord said:
Well yes, but preventing his own regeneration just results in death. So it's a conscious choice. But I don't think the fact that the Master forced his own death had anything to do with his resurrection. Wasn't it more to do with potions/biological science and the Masters DNA? That was the only thing I didn't like about the End of Time; the "Secret Books of Saxon".
Oh I thought it was totally "seat of the pants" writing, but now it's been made canonical - there's a way of writing out of it without re-adjusting canon - again.

Because once you weaken canon that much, tension is destroyed because you can just say "Oh, the Metabilis 3 mushroom allows me to beat that - unlike the 3 other times."
Which part are you refering to as "seat of your pants"? The Master refusing to regenerate or the Secret Books of Saxon?

Personally, I thought the Master forcing his own death and dieing in the Doctor's arms was totally unexpected and fantastic writing! And his resurection, although kinda cool, was really cheezy. To be honest, I'd never put two and two together that his resurection was dependant on his death.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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TimeLord said:
Which part are you refering to as "seat of your pants"? The Master refusing to regenerate or the Secret Books of Saxon?
The refusal was RTD using his heartstring pull motif, but to good effect - just not thought through.

The "Secret Books" part was an utter cop-out. RTD has a history of painting himself into a corner and then just walking straight across the paint.
To be honest, I'd never put two and two together that his resurection was dependant on his death.
Problem with being a long-term fan, you automatically analyze situations based not just on the future, but the past and present. Often I wish I could watch Who without reference to what had gone on before.
 

TimeLord

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
TimeLord said:
Which part are you refering to as "seat of your pants"? The Master refusing to regenerate or the Secret Books of Saxon?
The refusal was RTD using his heartstring pull motif, but to good effect - just not thought through.

The "Secret Books" part was an utter cop-out. RTD has a history of painting himself into a corner and then just walking straight across the paint.
To be honest, I'd never put two and two together that his resurection was dependant on his death.
Problem with being a long-term fan, you automatically analyze situations based not just on the future, but the past and present. Often I wish I could watch Who without reference to what had gone on before.
Which is why I sometimes cherish my ignorance of most of the old series.