Doctor Who Series 7: The Angels Take Manhatten (SPOILERS)

[Simonoly]

I found it to be quite a weak episode really. It wasn't particularly well paced and the departure of the Ponds was both predictable and anticlimactic. Also the inclusion of River Song seemed a bit pointless. I thought her particular story had been all wrapped up now? Apparently not.

I think Doctor Who might be becoming more preposterous with each iteration. The rate at which 'time paradoxes' and 'fixed points in time' conveniently allow the story to progress is starting to grate on me a little. I loved the first series with Matt Smith in, but I feel Moffat is now constantly writing himself into impossible plot situations that must rely upon convenient deus ex machinas to conclude.

 

[Lilani]

Just think back to blink when the girl was wandering around the house at the beginning of the episode,and how the angel would periodically get closer to the widow, it didn't grab her when she wasn't looking at it because the camera kept cutting to it and we could see it, therefore it turned to stone.

I know the whole thing is there mainly for plot convenience but it was still a clever thing to think of.

That was to build up suspense. It would have been incredibly boring on camera to just have her walking around the house. Building up suspense would have been impossible had they not shown the angel following her to create one of those, "Look behind you, you idiot!" moments that always occur in suspense thrillers.

I'm sorry, but it is really difficult me to say all of this without calling the idea just inane. But it is. I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. That isn't how film works. Were they deliberately trying to make the camera a part of the story world, they would have been more deliberate about it, and it would have been utilized in a self-aware manner. Yes, sometimes filmmakers make the camera and the audience a part of the story world, but that wasn't what was going on in that episode. They did break their rule, but only so that the audience could be fully aware of what's going on.

Think of a story written in the third person. Sometimes, the story mentions things the character isn't aware of, like things going on behind them or things that are said after they leave the room. This isn't done to make the audience an active participant in what's going on, or to make the storyteller out to be a literal mystical being that can see through walls. It's merely to convey the story in a way that is cohesive to the audience. Can people see through walls and know about conversations that happened while they were unconscious? No, but stories will break that "rule" if it tells the story better.

 

[Encurtidos]

Best episode of the last two seasons!! The fore-shadowing of 'read and you can't rewrite it' played out perfectly at the end when Rory read his tombstone. Do you think this is the end of River Song?? I wish the good byes at the end could've been drawn out a bit..but it was brilliantly moving! 2 thumbs up!

 

[Agent Larkin]

Moffat did the impossible for me with this episode.

He made me give a crap about the Ponds and River Song.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

This episode for me was hands down the best episode of the series. It's handled very well, and feels like a good conclusion for the Ponds. Hell, even River is well written.

 

[GiantRaven]

The Statue of Liberty being an Angel is literally the stupidest thing I've in a Doctor Who episode. You can think about that idea for a second before it falls apart completely.

How exactly does one of the world's biggest tourist attractions just get up and wander around (and not stealthily I might add) without anybody noticing?

Utterly ridiculous...

 

[Ninjamedic]

1. Since when can the Doctor just summon up regeneration energy at will? It's been pretty well established that that can only be done soon after regeneration (or, if you go by the rules they set in Tennant's first episode, within 15 hours of regeneration).

(though I don't know why the Doctor suddenly has the power to pull regeneration out whenever he fancies).

Rise of the Cybermen (Season 2), Ten gives some of his energy to recharge the last working TARDIS component after they jump dimensions.

OT: Loved it, loved the series apart from the rushing of plot at times. Moffat's done a better job of finales than RTD so far so I'm hoping he can keep that up.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

1. Since when can the Doctor just summon up regeneration energy at will? It's been pretty well established that that can only be done soon after regeneration (or, if you go by the rules they set in Tennant's first episode, within 15 hours of regeneration).

(though I don't know why the Doctor suddenly has the power to pull regeneration out whenever he fancies).

Rise of the Cybermen (Season 2), Ten gives some of his energy to recharge the last working TARDIS component after they jump dimensions.

OT: Loved it, loved the series apart from the rushing of plot at times. Moffat's done a better job of finales than RTD so far so I'm hoping he can keep that up.

Also River gives the Doctor hers in "Let's Kill Hitler" so maybe it's a Time Lord to Time Lord thing? River seemed to know what was going on.

The point of contention I had that I hope someone can explain: Why didn't the Doctor just go back in time to the year after [or insert period of time here after] they all got zapped there rather than trying to land in the dangerous time? He could have just swung by and picked them up with no hassle?

It was all I was thinking when they were talking about how difficult it was to get into 193-whatever(6?) Why not just go back to 193-whatever+1?

So two points:
1) Why didn't he just go to year+1 in the first place and save all the potential blasting of New York?
2) Why can't he just go get them a year or so after they get zapped back the first time or even visit them? They don't live 60 odd years in the space of one year after all...

The character essentially gets a year long holiday in the past and returns right as rain.

[sub][sub]Also Liberty required a pretty large suspension of disbelief (wouldn't stunned New Yorkers stare at the moving statue?) but I like the way it looked so all is forgiven[/sub][/sub]

 

[Lilani]

Rise of the Cybermen (Season 2), Ten gives some of his energy to recharge the last working TARDIS component after they jump dimensions.

You know, not long after I made that post I remembered that, lol. So I guess I'll forgive that one, but it still bugged the crap out of me how often nobody was looking at the angels.

Also River gives the Doctor hers in "Let's Kill Hitler" so maybe it's a Time Lord to Time Lord thing? River seemed to know what was going on.

But in Let's Kill Hitler, River had just regenerated so that would have followed my original train of thought. But like Ninjamedic said there they have done the whole "Doctor gives away some of his life force" thing before (they just didn't specifically call it regeneration energy in that situation, and it wasn't used to heal a person, which also begs the question why he lets so many people die in front of him when apparently he can just up and do that, but whatever I'm willing to suspend my belief on that).

The point of contention I had that I hope someone can explain: Why didn't the Doctor just go back in time to the year after [or insert period of time here after] they all got zapped there rather than trying to land in the dangerous time? He could have just swung by and picked them up with no hassle?

The way they explained it was Rory saw his tombstone, which made it absolute that he was going to live out his life in New York and die there. That was why the Doctor was so excited when he first thought River's hand wasn't broken--he took it as a sign that the future could be changed even after you know what is going to happen. However, her wrist was broken, so that cemented that rule. I guess you could ask why didn't he just go and meet them and make sure to leave them so that they can grow old and die in New York together, but I think the explanation is that when the Doctor is viewing the tombstone, they are both dead. They have lived out the rest of their lives lives without him, so that chain of events is established and he can't cross into it.

So...yeah. I don't even have much problem with that, I don't really mind rules getting made up as you go along or rules getting a new spin put on them, however it just bugs me when rules are actually broken and nobody seems to notice. Like in this episode when nobody was looking at the Statue of Liberty angel for so long, or in the Power of Three episode when the people who died of heart attacks were dead for at least 20-30 minutes before the Doctor revived them, meaning they would have been brain dead having gone that long without any oxygen flowing to the brain. I understand Doctor Who is all about fudging science and inventing random science machines that solve real medical problems, and I wouldn't have minded if he had come up with some random, spacey-wacey way to fix the brain damage. However the fact that they didn't even bother to address it just urks me, just as them not addressing the lack of eyes being on the angel, or nobody else in New York hearing all the noise it makes when it moves or just the very fact that it's moved.

 

[Simonoly]

Whoops wrong thread. All glitchy tonight.

 

[Robot Number V]

GOOD STUFF
-The Pond's send off. Seriously, Smith sold the HELL out of that scene. One of the saddest, yet best, moments off the series.
-They used the Angels the way they were really supposed to be used. Much more reminiscent of "Blink" then "Flesh and Stone".
-Clever Time-Travel Shenanigans. Always a welcome sight. This stuff was all REALLY GOOD.

THE BAD STUFF
-The Statue of Liberty being an angel was...Kinda dumb, in my opinion. Especially since it never really went anywhere, and it doesn't really make sense. How does no one notice the damn Statue of Liberty teleporting across Manhattan? Or even if they don't notice that, how bout the fact that it just regularly disappears from it's island?
-The Collector guy seemed kind of pointless. Who the hell WAS he? What purpose did he serve? Kinda just seemed like padding to me. Still, the bit with Rory in the basement was pretty damn cool.
-River still bothers the hell out of me. This is why I'm gonna miss Rory, he was the only one who didn't harbor a blind, fanatical devotion to the Doctor. Not looking forward to Osmin either. She was like River on Quirkiness Steroids. Hopefully the actress is playing a different character, somehow.

Despite that, I can't stress enough how much I enjoyed this episode. Not perfect, but still really damn good.

 

[Robot Number V]

The Statue of Liberty being an Angel is literally the stupidest thing I've in a Doctor Who episode. You can think about that idea for a second before it falls apart completely.

How exactly does one of the world's biggest tourist attractions just get up and wander around (and not stealthily I might add) without anybody noticing?

Utterly ridiculous...

Yeah, that was definitely the low point of the episode for me. I mean, the giant Angel Jaws behind Rory and that guy in the intro was a cool image, but...It made no fucking sense. At all. And it was really silly once you see it's the Statue of Liberty. It was just...Ugh. No.

 

[Brendan Stepladder]

I heard that the episode was going to feature Riversong and Moffat's rendition of Weeping Angels. I expected a pile of trash. What I got instead was the best episode this season.

 

[Lilani]

Rule one of time travel, unless you see a dead body, someone's fate can be changed. A tombstone is not a body and anything can be written on it. I still think my explanation of Moffat using this to let the Ponds bow out gracefully without destroying their relationship with the Doctor is correct. After all, he's not the type to dump a new companion just to pick up with an old one. So if later he figures out how to get the Ponds back to modern Britain, Moffat won't have to actually bring them back as companions.

Narratively, I think it's pretty fair for a grave/tombstone to be used as a sign of a dead body. If a grave can never be just a grave, then how can a note on the psychic paper ever be just a note on the psychic paper? Maybe it's just a huge coincidence put on by somebody else to lead the Doctor places. How can a Dalek be just a Dalek? How do you know it's not just a robot that looks like a Dalek if you haven't seen inside that specific Dalek? How do you know the Cybermen aren't just people in suits playing an elaborate prank unless you see their gears inside? How do you know the Silurians aren't just people cosplaying as lizards unless you see them do that tongue thing?

That line of thinking just turns any narrative into a clusterfuck of "what ifs," and I think we've got enough of those out of these new episodes as it stands ;-)

 

[boradam]

My one question to the episode is: what on earth did the Doctor do to the Angel after it sent Rory and Amy back in time? He does nothing, and they cut to the TARDIS without a mention of it. Did they just let the thing go off, free?

 

[MrCalypso]

I have to say I enjoyed the Statue of Liberty being an angle but does anyone else feel like it should have actually done something? Beside being just a set piece I mean. I kinda feel like it was there just for kicks.

On the departure of the Ponds I have to admit, while I greatly enjoyed both Amy and Rory, I did not get an emotional experience out of their departure. Perhaps it's because of the way I watched series 1-6 but I always felt really uncomfortable after the Doctor's regeneration and I always felt strongly for the companions when they had to leave the Doctor's side. Now however, for the first time we have two companions who are effectively dead and I still feel more symphony for the previous series companions who are all actually still alive.

Perhaps I just need to re-watch the episode a few times...who knows....

 

[Gidiel167]

by far my favorite episode of the season, and the weeping angels still do better to freak me out than the silence.

Does anyone else wonder how hard it would be to set up your life after getting zapped back 50+years? every time this happens to someone, i always wonder how they go about it.

 

[Lectori Salutem]

I pretty much have two problems with this episode:

1. The whole paradox and time travel stuff. Moffat managed to use time travel in quite some neat ways in previous episodes, but this one felt a bit like he made stuff up as he went along. Why can't we change the future/will a paradox fix everything/can't we just create another paradox/ can the Tardis destroy New York? Because timey-wimey, I guess.

2. The episode length. This is something that has bothered me a bit throughout the entire new series. The 45-minute episodes feels a bit short for a lot of episodes. This one for example, had elements of mystery (the whole book thing), horror (angles) and a lot of drama, but I think most of it would've been much better if this was a two parter. The Statue of Liberty, for instance, was a neat idea, but got very little screentime and contributed zero to the story.
Perhaps I'm somewhat too used to the slower pace of the classic series, where serials were long enough to work things out in more detail (although it could get too slow at times), but the story felt a bit rushed.

Other than those two things, I think it's a good episode, though not outstanding. What I do really like, is how Moffat connects all his episodes, building up a multi-season story arc.