does good graphics lead to bad gameplay?

[Nasrin]

This is just something I was thinking about this morning, on the way into work...

I've played games since I was very small, starting at around 7 or so. As I get older, and look forward to new iterations of my favorite games, what I see is a lot of attention paid to aesthetics and less and less all the time to innovative game mechanics. As CG has evolved, we've become obsessed with the idea of making the games look as 'real' as possible. The issue is... things look very real now, but fail to feel any different in spite of that.

I think the best examples of this are Mario and Halo/CoD. If you come over to someone's house expecting to play Mario, and he hands you Super Mario Bros. 2 instead of the New Super Mario Bros for Wii, you probably aren't going to freak out about it, because it's pretty much the same thing. It is similar, I find, with many FPS games.

Further, I'm not even sure that developers are succeeding at their goal of realism in focusing on the way a game looks. Honestly, Manny from Grim Fandango feels much more real to me than [insert modern character name... see? i can't even think of one] in spite of his blocky pixels. I think it's the fact that your goal in the game is to navigate the underworld beaurocracy, the fact that he as a person is a novel idea. Again, it's the gameplay and the writing, not how many blades of grass are on the ground.

It is my hope that we'll eventually reach a plateau of visual realism, at which point developers will have to start thinking about other things again.

What do you guys think?

 

[Kahunaburger]

I don't know if I consider good graphics to lead to bad gameplay, but they are often the result of a "make it more cinematic!" philosophy of game design that I think frequently leads to bad gameplay. So, correlation, but not causation.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Animation, for me, is more important than graphics.


The textures are still awful and people are still block men, but everything moves like it should.

I just wish Half Life actually played like that

There are lots of games with pretty visuals, but some things just don't move like they should.

Character models in Mass Effect move terribly in cut scenes.

 

[RJ 17]

I've actually often had similar thoughts. Really it's my theory as to why (at least from my perspective) older games are far superior to the modern ones. It is my belief that developers are using pretty visuals as a crutch. They're trying to show how amazing their technology is while the game itself is pretty hollow. Look at Rage, for instance. Most would agree that the game is quite visually stunning...yet the game itself is extremely lacking.

It's really why I like the old Final Fantasy games more than the present ones. Final Fantasy 1-6 didn't have to worry about dazzling their audience with amazing visuals, as such they could focus on gameplay and story. The most recent addition of FF titles, though, practically literally play themselves (just from what I've heard, I gave up on Final Fantasy after 10) and as such have traded gameplay for aesthetics on a most literal of levels.

 

[Antari]

It's good to see other people thinking the same thing I've been saying for years. Be prepared for alot of tin foil hats references. Nostalgia will get into it alot as well. But otherwise your on the right track. Thankfully the games industry hasn't done anything to stop its freefall away from creativity, others are noticing.

 

[Nasrin]

It is my belief that developers are using pretty visuals as a crutch. They're trying to show how amazing their technology is while the game itself is pretty hollow.

That is totally what I was trying to articulate. Thanks for putting it into better words for me!

 

[TheGreatAndPowerfulZOG]

I don't think so. Halo is a fine example of a game series that has always looked great and played great. As long as realism doesn't take priority over gameplay, I think it can be a great asset to the overall project. I know a lot of my enjoyment of Red Dead Redemption and Skyrim came just from appreciating the gorgeous game worlds.

 

[Folji]

Animation, for me, is more important than graphics.

Hell yeah, second that. Good graphics are nice, but it falls apart in no time if the animations are off. One of the things I hated the most about TES4, and several other games, was how rigid and out of sync with the world every single bloody character looked. Same issue has turned me off several MMOs over the years.


Also, to the OP, it seems pretty undeniable that the increasing requirement for a game to have good graphics in order to appeal to the general market (because it has virtually become a requirement, detailed realism and sleek stylization alike) has been putting constraints on the actual game part of a lot of games over the last several years.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I don't think there's any real correlation between graphics quality and game quality. I think what happens is this:

Good Graphics + Good Gameplay: Most praise focuses on the gameplay, the quality graphics are an afterthought.

Bad Graphics + Good Gameplay: All praise focuses on the gameplay, the poor graphics are an afterthought. Anyone griping about the graphics gets shouted down for failing to appreciate the gameplay.

Good Graphics + Bad Gameplay: People buy it because of the amazing visuals, realize the gameplay is terrible, ponder aloud whether there is a correlation between good graphics and bad gameplay.

Bad Graphics + Bad Gameplay: Hardly anyone ends up buying or playing these, as they're disasters.

Realistically speaking, designers who care enough to lovingly craft quality gameplay will often also craft quality visuals. At least artistically pleasing, if the budget isn't there to make them bleeding edge.

 

[RJ 17]

It is my belief that developers are using pretty visuals as a crutch. They're trying to show how amazing their technology is while the game itself is pretty hollow.

That is totally what I was trying to articulate. Thanks for putting it into better words for me!

Heh heh, my degree in English hasn't done much for me, but at least it's made me a good wordsmith, so it was my sincere pleasure.

But really I do agree with you that it seems developers these days are more concerned with finding that perfect way to render the sun's reflection off a lake than making interesting characters/story. Again I point to Rage, a beautifully rendered world but with a main character and story that is absolutely impossible to relate to...

...and an ending that makes the ending to ME 3 look like the bowling alley scene at the end of There Will Be Blood.

 

[DoPo]

I'm throwing money at the screen but nothing is happening! Why?! Why isn't it working?!

OT: It has been said already but I'll just add my spin to it - no. Not really. Now, some games do emphasise on shininess instead of content but that's not the rule. Maybe the problem is that developing a pretty looking engine takes time, time that could be used polishing the game. However that isn't inherently true, as not everybody is trying to create their very own engine. One could just use a pre-made one trading off money for time. Good gameplay and good looks are doable. I think the issue is that there would always be games that suck regardless of how they look. Hence graphics (or aesthetics, if you wish) aren't the factor here.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

...and an ending that makes the ending to ME 3 look like the bowling alley scene at the end of There Will Be Blood.

Hmm...

Catalyst: Synthesis! Synthesis, Shepard, you boy. Synthesized completely. I'm so sorry. Here, if you have a galaxy, and I have a galaxy, and I have some reapers. There it is, that's a reaper, you see? You watching?. And my reaper reaches acroooooooss the universe, and starts to synthesize your galaxy. I... synthesize... your... galaxy!
[sucking sound]
Catalyst: I synthesize it completely!
Shepard: Don't bully me Catalyst!
[Catalyst roars and throws Shepard across the room]
Catalyst: Did you think your song and dance and your war assets would help you, Shepard? I am the last minute Plot Revelation! I am the Ghostly Child spouting exposition!

Meh. Still an improvement.

 

[RJ 17]

...and an ending that makes the ending to ME 3 look like the bowling alley scene at the end of There Will Be Blood.

Hmm...

Catalyst: Synthesis! Synthesis, Shepard, you boy. Synthesized completely. I'm so sorry. Here, if you have a galaxy, and I have a galaxy, and I have some reapers. There it is, that's a reaper, you see? You watching?. And my reaper reaches acroooooooss the universe, and starts to synthesize your galaxy. I... synthesize... your... galaxy!
[sucking sound]
Catalyst: I synthesize it completely!
Shepard: Don't bully me Catalyst!
[Catalyst roars and throws Shepard across the room]
Catalyst: Did you think your song and dance and your war assets would help you, Shepard? I am the last minute Plot Revelation! I am the Ghostly Child spouting exposition!

Meh. Still an improvement.

xD just imagined that little scene playing out the way you've got it set up, and I must thank you for giving me a rather hearty chuckle.

 

[MPerce]

With a lot of studios today....yes, good graphics lead to bad gameplay. Gameplay and story tend to take a back seat to making everything look as pretty as possible.

I think that's part of why the indie business has taken off the way it has. People are getting sick of slick looking but bland AAA titles, so they turn to indie games, which don't have as good production value but provide much more stimulating gameplay.

 

[Strain42]

I think that better graphics CAN make for better gameplay (this is why we have discussions about if a game has aged well or not) but I don't think that better graphics automatically makes gameplay better or worse.

The main problem is when developers forgo gameplay in exchange for better graphics. As if looking pretty will somehow make a bad game good.

 

[WoW Killer]

A solid example that's in my mind from another thread, and is highly relevant to the topic: Rise of the Robots on the SNES. Revolutionary graphics for its time, and notoriously boring gameplay. It was of course almost unanimously criticised for how badly it played. But more to the point, the graphics actually were responsible for the poor gameplay. The sheer number of animations that were present in each usable ability and movement was such a drain on the systems resources that the number of abilities available had to be limited. This was directly responsible for how repetitive and dull the gameplay was.

I'm not sure modern games hold such concrete examples as modern PCs and consoles have such vast resources that the gameplay doesn't usually suffer so directly. You could point to examples of horrible performance and bugs in the likes of Skyrim, say, but this seems to be more forgiveable from the players perspective that outright hollow gameplay from the likes of RotR.

I agree mostly with correlation but not causation. I think maybe the direct responsibility of graphics causing poor gameplay is probably a rarity, but it is evident that developers spend more time than they should on making a game look the part.

 

[Thoraxe]

Not inevitably, no. But if certain resources are being devoted to shiny crap, what is to be expected? Riveting gameplay AND good graphics? A compromise has to be made and it's usally in the gameplay or story department.

 

[DustyDrB]

I don't think there's any real correlation between graphics quality and game quality. I think what happens is this:

Good Graphics + Good Gameplay: Most praise focuses on the gameplay, the quality graphics are an afterthought.

Bad Graphics + Good Gameplay: All praise focuses on the gameplay, the poor graphics are an afterthought. Anyone griping about the graphics gets shouted down for failing to appreciate the gameplay.

Good Graphics + Bad Gameplay: People buy it because of the amazing visuals, realize the gameplay is terrible, ponder aloud whether there is a correlation between good graphics and bad gameplay.

Bad Graphics + Bad Gameplay: Hardly anyone ends up buying or playing these, as they're disasters.

Realistically speaking, designers who care enough to lovingly craft quality gameplay will often also craft quality visuals. At least artistically pleasing, if the budget isn't there to make them bleeding edge.

I agree. Having experienced every combination of good/bad graphics and good/bad gameplay, I think graphics and gameplay exist on different continua.