Doing what is asked of you is a C?

[Owyn_Merrilin]

As long as there is a syllabus to aim for an A, I think it's OK. Just doing as you are told and being given a C seems unfair. Otherwise, without a syllabus anything above a C is arbitrarily decided by your teacher if you met B or A grades. You can't run a structured grading system like that.

This is the real problem here. A teacher (yes, even a college professor) needs to have a solid rubric for every assignment. Just having one that goes up to a C and saying "if you want a B or an A, work harder than what I told you to and I might arbitrarily assign you one" is a terrible assessment method. The thing about education is it's about teaching the student either knowledge or skills, and an assessment is supposed to tell how well the student has mastered said information/skill. You can't just tell the students what they have to do to get a bare minimum pass; mastery should always be the aim.

 

[Techsmart07]

Hello Escapists, long time no see in the forums.

Anyway, I have a bit of situation I wanted your opinions on.

The new semester just started, and I find myself with a teacher who... Well, I don't like him. The general consensus seems to be he's a self centered jerk, but that's besides the point. What I wanted to ask you guys is if you agree with this statement: "Doing exactly what you're asked is average work, and will be rewarded with a C, an average grade."

Thoughts?

Personally, I don't like it. Maybe that's because my grade is on the line, but still, it just doesn't seem like a good way to grade. If I'm asked to do a certain amount of work, and I do it, I'm really going to be rewarded with a C? I don't know, that seems like a little spit in the face to me.

But again, that's just me. Am I wrong on this one? Please, tell me if I am.

Also, feel free to share stories of teachers you haven't exactly hit it off with. I love reading the silly stuff that teachers can do sometimes.

first off, I think some more information would be helpful. What class is it? If it is Math or some course that most of your grade is tests/quizes/homework, then you would be rightfully angry. However, if it is a project based course, such as a programming course, english course, or something of that sort, then I don't see a problem with it, especially if he gives you what he expects "average" to be ahead of time. In the grading scale, a C is supposed to mean "Meets all criteria, but has not succeeded in any particular area." Getting a B should be "meets or exceeds in most areas," and an A should be "Excels in pretty much every aspect of the course." This is the approach every teacher and professor I've had has taken in project-based courses, and I don't see a problem with it. If you do exactly as you are told and get a 100, then what's the reward for the guy who does what he is told and does extra? He gave you his rules and how he enforces them ahead of time, so work with them.

Now, that doesn't mean I've agreed with all of my teachers. My public speaking professor assigned three presentations for the class, one was a 2-min about ourselves, one was a 5-min about an issue, and the last was a 7-min on how to do something. On the 2-min (our first one), she marked me down on several different things, such as taking more than 2 minutes (lost 10 points for 20 seconds over), and having too many "um", "uh", and other stalling problems. This bothered me, but I worked with it, and improved. On the 5-min one, I was 4 minutes and 25 seconds, and lost another 10 points. She also completely changed her grading system, and didn't even count points on how often I said "um" and "uh." The biggest issue here was that she first told us that she was using the same standards for grading each presentation, despite each rubric being drastically different. She also didn't give us her grading rubric until AFTER we did that presentation. We never had a chance to try to minimize things she was looking for. The other thing that royally ticked me off was that I lost points because I have a lisp. When we did our end-of-year evaluations, I gave her an equivalent of an F (I got a C in the course, go figure, but would have raged on her even if I got an A).

 

[Signa]

As long as there is a syllabus to aim for an A, I think it's OK. Just doing as you are told and being given a C seems unfair. Otherwise, without a syllabus anything above a C is arbitrarily decided by your teacher if you met B or A grades. You can't run a structured grading system like that.

This is the real problem here. A teacher (yes, even a college professor) needs to have a solid rubric for every assignment. Just having one that goes up to a C and saying "if you want a B or an A, work harder than what I told you to and I might arbitrarily assign you one" is a terrible assessment method. The thing about education is it's about teaching the student either knowledge or skills, and an assessment is supposed to tell how well the student has mastered said information/skill. You can't just tell the students what they have to do to get a bare minimum pass; mastery should always be the aim.

Ah, "rubric" that's the word I meant. Both Syllabus and rubric are words I haven't needed to use outside of a classroom in over a decade. Fixed.

 

[Kpt._Rob]

Uhm... welcome to college? Seriously, you can't expect to get coddled like you were in grade school. This kind of attitude amongst professors is pretty common. There are always students who will go the extra mile whether you ask them to or not, and they're the ones who deserve A's. The people who do the bare minimum to get C's couldn't be more average if they tried, so it's a deserving grade.

Consider it then like the real world, where you can get by only doing what's asked of you, but will never excel unless you bring your A game.

 

[Bootbunny]

This post brings me back to my thoughts that I had on the standard one through ten ranking system used when reviewing video games. When I first heard how the system worked I thought it was strange that all ten numbers weren't used and that the worst of the litter often got a rank closer to five or six rather than one. But then, after thinking about it a little more I realized that just because there are other numbers available doesn't justify the use of said numbers. I cam to the conclusion that it is a cultural (for lack of a better word) thing that all of the other numbers aren't used and that anyone who looks at the ranking system logically is going against the standard and might as well be using animals to represent the quality of the game.

So, to cut to the chase it seems as though your professor is completely ignoring how the traditional grading system works and is distributing grades according to his own standards. don't necessarily agree with his methods, but maybe he's just setting the bar higher to get higher quality work out of all of you... Or he just hates people. One of the two.

 

[ABAP]

It's fair if there's a rubric that tells you specifically what's required to get an A and you just didn't do it. I think a lot of people in this thread are implying that it's alright for teachers to totally wreck your GPA because of their own personal opinions about what "average" ought to be, or about what "C" ought to mean. They should still try to be at least somewhat objective. If they don't explain what they're looking for, they have a bit too much freedom to destroy you for whatever reason.

My English professor this semester is known to be tough--and even hated for it, to some extent--but, based on what I've seen so far, I respect her because her criticisms are very detailed and specific. If she had written on my last in-class essay, "Meh, you get a C," I don't think that would've been alright.

In contrast, the guidelines my Sociology professor provided in his syllabus were totally inconsistent with what he was looking for, apparently, and that annoyed me a little. He specifically told us not to summarize the articles we were responding to, and, the next class, he brought us an example of what an "A" was: an elaborate summary in which the writer simply agreed with all the article's main points, without necessarily building on it or anything. But anyway, I did my next assignment more like that, and all was well.

tl;dr educators should help you

 

[bakan]

Seriously, is everyone here doing some sociology or psychology courses and your professors just want to see that you read 'x' more books for the course?

I mean what is wrong with you, if you did exactly what was asked and did it correct, you get the equivalent of an A, at least it is like that for any physics, astronomy and mathematics course I did - and if you do some extra derivations etc, they don't count and don't give you any extra points, because it wasn't asked.

Btw, even in my philosophy course we had well formulated problems, which we had to solve in a logical order.
If you were able to get to the core of the problem, present good solutions and get to a logical conlusion, you probably got a B and if it was well written, on top of getting everything right you got an A.

 

[RN7]

That's completely acceptable. Your teacher sounds like a guy who I'd get along with fine. Doing what's asked (depending the difficulty. Has to be taken into account, you know) is typically average work. Average work is a C. Those who work harder, try harder, have the skill and intelligence to apply the concepts they're learning and then some deserve better marks. Your teacher is trying to push you harder to become better. Or he's just a jerk and you should do the best you can to shove the ever-loving dick of "fuck your superiority complex" down his throat.


Ot:

Captcha compressed lyments.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

First of all, I think it should be mentioned that C being the baseline for doing what you're asked has always been the standard for school. Gradeschool grading scales are highly inflated, and have indoctrinated this last generation with the idea that doing only what they must is A material. So then they get to college, and these kids who graduated with 4.0 GPAs are having trouble keeping it above 3.0 because doing the minimum no longer gets them As.

I'm a junior in college right now, and I think it's a good thing. That's just how life is--you don't get promotions and raises by doing only what is asked of you. You get ahead by going above and beyond--by applying yourself and pushing both yourself and the assignment to the limit. That is how it will always be. The person who looks for a better way to solve the problem rather than just following the instructions will always get promoted first.

With more and more people getting a college education, a degree doesn't mean what it used to. Positions that require degrees are getting more and more competitive. You can't just flash the degree and get in anymore--you have to show you're willing to do more than what your instructors asked of you. The only thing I see in the system that needs fixing is the inflation of grades in prep schools (well, actually the whole public education system really needs an overhaul from the ground-up, but that's another story).

 

[dyre]

Depends on the situation, but normally I'd say no. If my teacher expects me to do all the assigned readings, pay attention and take good notes during lectures, and put a solid effort into all assignments, and if I do that, then I expect, and normally receive, an A.

Uhm... welcome to college? Seriously, you can't expect to get coddled like you were in grade school. This kind of attitude amongst professors is pretty common. There are always students who will go the extra mile whether you ask them to or not, and they're the ones who deserve A's. The people who do the bare minimum to get C's couldn't be more average if they tried, so it's a deserving grade.

Consider it then like the real world, where you can get by only doing what's asked of you, but will never excel unless you bring your A game.

I don't know what college you're going to, but my profs don't expect "bare minimum;" they ask quite a bit from us and reward us if we deliver! If you're giving people a crappy grade for doing what they've been asked, then you really ought to be asking more of them.

 

[WaysideMaze]

I'm pretty much repeating the general consensus in this thread, but this does seem fair.

If you're awarded top marks for 'just doing as you are asked' then how do you reward those who go beyond this?

 

[applesandoranges]

edit

 

[Denamic]

"Doing exactly what you're asked is average work, and will be rewarded with a C, an average grade."

To get an exceptional grade, you should have to do exceptional work.
I thought that was pretty normal.

I've heard bad things about the american educational system, but I haven't actually looked into it much myself.
But what you're saying isn't exactly helping your image.

 

[Joccaren]

Yes and No.

It is fair in that that is the way its always been. If you want to get an A and be considered superior to the average person, you need to put in extra effort than the average person and put more into your work.
What I would prefer happen, and what happens at my school, is that you are given a rubric. That rubrik has all the requirements for E, D, C, B and A marks. You are told what you need to do for each mark. Most people will do the bare minimum, you still have to do more than that to get an A, but at least you know what you are trying to do for that grade. For me, that's not so much a problem. The quality in information of my work is always higher than average anyway, without much research, and nets me an A most of the time. Sometimes I'll drop to a B as I couldn't be bothered even making it look neat, but eh. Presentation... Not my strong point. Really, if you can read it, what does it matter that it has pretty ponies around it? (Not saying that is exclusively what is wanted. Many of my most respected teachers don't ask for prettiness, but just neatness. I don't wholly respect the teachers that expect you to put a colourful border and extra Jazz into your work so that it looks nice - unless its in Art or VCD. In practical subjects, adding pretty pictures and borders instead of just leaving it as neat and readable can be detrimental to the quality of the work IMO. But now I'm rambling and this is an entirely different conversation).

 

[Denamic]

What exactly do you mean by exceptional work? What more should be done beyond what is expected? A 50 page paper that he didn't ask for out of the blue? What exactly?

If you're doing a paper on the physical traits of turtles, you could also go further and explain how and why said traits emerged through evolution, or whatever.
It's your job to figure that shit out, and if you don't, you don't deserve an A.
Just doing the basic requirements yields a basic grade.

 

[Bruenin]

I read this wrong

I thought that you meant that doing ALL your work got you a C.
Like answering every single question correctly and stating all the needed facts got you a C.

That would've been bull. That means that the only way to get a B or an A would be to put information that hasn't been tought to you yet. Information they are supposed to teach you later. So even if you didn't get one question wrong unless you did additional work and basically tought yourself the subject you'll still only be marked down as average.

I'm judging this as if it was happening in high school, not college... sorry if I got it mixed up or something.