Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.

[doublenix]

Bottom line is that it is a free speech issue over anything else for the t-shirt thing specifically. They should address behavior of students directly, not start 'preventing' things by addressing the shirts.

 

[Woodsey]

If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.

Don't get over to Britain much, do you? We don't really do too many "uproars". Especially when people can just chalk it up too "American arrogance" and then stop caring.

If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.

Hahahahaha! Wrong my friend, all the anti-hate nonsense and political correctness has long since strangled any public signs of patriotism, it's all well and good for immigrants to parade around the streets proclaiming their religious dominance, waving their flags and chanting death to the west. But woe betide any British person if they wave their flag, oh egads, it might offend the immigrants!!

This is the lunacy we contend with, we don't even have freedom of speech, and it is being eroded by the euphemism of hate speech laws, it's fine for immigrants to sail into this country, swamp entire towns and run them into poverty ridden, disease carrying slums. And all they have to do is point at one of us and complain we're being racist, and wahey! It's off to the cells for you.


Yeah I'm bitter that my own country is being eaten by parasites...we seriously need a constitution like our American cousins...with a 1st Amendment, a 2nd Amendment would be nice too...one can hope.

I'd suggest getting your snout out of the BNP Trough of Bullshit and stop embarrassing yourself.

As for British patriotism, British culture is not the same as American culture, we don't exert the same levels of patriotism or in the same ways because we aren't the same people.

Yes, sometimes some people are overly-sensitive and try to implement stupid rules. No, they're nowhere near as common place as the Daily Mail would try and have everyone believe.

it's all well and good for immigrants to parade around the streets proclaiming their religious dominance, waving their flags and chanting death to the west.

wtf?
yeah, cuz every immigrant is a terrorist cell waiting to happen...

From what I've seen over the years, they've yet to prove me wrong.

Fuck me, I bet you did well in Maths. 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet (I'll assume you're going for the Muslims; unoriginal, but then idiots like you don't have much imagination), and (something like) 3 million in the UK as of 2010, and you're convinced they all want to blow us up.

Pro tip: if 3 million people wanted to kill everyone in this country using terrorist tactics, they'd have fucking done it by now.


OT: Seems an overreaction, but if it was a temporary thing to prevent tensions running any higher, then I don't think its ludicrous. Especially if there'd been trouble the previous year (caused by the American students).

 

[DonMartin]

I fail to sympathise with the lads and their families who immediately took it upon themselves to sue and demand money just because they were asked to turn their shirts inside out.

This very much. Especially if they actually only wore the shirts to piss off the ones celebrating Cinco de Mayo.


Also, who the fuck wears a flag on their clothing? As someone already said, the (however voluntary) Flag Code even forbids it. Do you have to wear one to feel patriotic? Fuck off. And fuck being proud of being a certain nationality. It's not like you have any control over it, anyway. It's not an achievement. And just because someone goes around waving a flag doesnt mean you have to start shaking yours around. How insecure can one be?

Also also, I really dont see the reason in carrying a flag around, either. Dicks will be dicks.

 

[Jegsimmons]

another reason why i fucking hate california.

and question, why the hell would they be offended if they MOVED here? wouldn't it be a GOOD thing to show off our flags? if i was mexican and moved to the US and saw nothing but mexican culture, whats the point?

yeah they may have been doing it for an asshole reason, but if mexicans can wear the mexican flag on the fourth of july here, then i dont see why we need to bother respecting a holiday that isn't even our own. cause no one else respect our holidays thats for damn sure.

what next? cant wear a shirt with a cross on it for Christmas?

 

[Felstaff]

This is an old story, and has been debated to death. What's missing from the media is context. The students (debatably) wore the flag as a sign of provocation. Much like a Christian is free to walk through a predominantly Hindu area wielding a bible in the middle of Diwali, and reading psalms through a megaphone, there's no doubt that doing so is a.) a dick move, b.) designed to provoke or rile up tension, and c.) another case of pissing on someone's bonfire, depriving them of their harmless fun (as Diwali is a festival of celebration, much like Cinco de Mayo).

From my perspective, it seems as though the students were wearing the flag as nothing more than a culturally imperialist display disguised as patriotism (nationalism), which is not a display of pride, but of hatred. Especially at a time of heightened racial tension and strong opinion of anti-immigration.

Of course, I could well be wrong, as the perspectives from both sides differ, and the media conveniently omits this rather important information.

Had they been students who often wore the American flag as apparel, which could be true, then it might have been a case of oversensitivity from the PC brigade. Had they been bowling through shouting U-S-A, U-S-A, which is equally as likely, then it's their behaviour, rather than their clothing, that might be construed as offensive to an otherwise harmless celebration.

That said, I don't know the facts, and neither do those who read the newspapers. Question it! Question it all! Doubt your news! Cease the judgements, as there is more to this story than the media represents.

 

[justcallmeslow]

They didn't wear American flags because they were proud of their country. They wore them to antagonize Mexican-American students who were celebrating something they didn't happen to be a part of. It's a terrible and offensive use of the flag.

I don't get why more people don't spot this. It's the first thing i thought.

I'm not sure trying to stop them was the best response though, perhaps put them through the standard school punishment system (detention or whatever) without restricting their freedom of speech. Show you support their freedom to speak but not their choice to be antagonistic and xenophobic.

 

[El Luck]

If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.

Don't get over to Britain much, do you? We don't really do too many "uproars". Especially when people can just chalk it up too "American arrogance" and then stop caring.

If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.

Hahahahaha! Wrong my friend, all the anti-hate nonsense and political correctness has long since strangled any public signs of patriotism, it's all well and good for immigrants to parade around the streets proclaiming their religious dominance, waving their flags and chanting death to the west. But woe betide any British person if they wave their flag, oh egads, it might offend the immigrants!!

This is the lunacy we contend with, we don't even have freedom of speech, and it is being eroded by the euphemism of hate speech laws, it's fine for immigrants to sail into this country, swamp entire towns and run them into poverty ridden, disease carrying slums. And all they have to do is point at one of us and complain we're being racist, and wahey! It's off to the cells for you.


Yeah I'm bitter that my own country is being eaten by parasites...we seriously need a constitution like our American cousins...with a 1st Amendment, a 2nd Amendment would be nice too...one can hope.

I'd suggest getting your snout out of the BNP Trough of Bullshit and stop embarrassing yourself.

As for British patriotism, British culture is not the same as American culture, we don't exert the same levels of patriotism or in the same ways because we aren't the same people.

Yes, sometimes some people are overly-sensitive and try to implement stupid rules. No, they're nowhere near as common place as the Daily Mail would try and have everyone believe.

it's all well and good for immigrants to parade around the streets proclaiming their religious dominance, waving their flags and chanting death to the west.

wtf?
yeah, cuz every immigrant is a terrorist cell waiting to happen...

From what I've seen over the years, they've yet to prove me wrong.

Fuck me, I bet you did well in Maths. 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet (I'll assume you're going for the Muslims; unoriginal, but then idiots like you don't have much imagination), and (something like) 3 million in the UK as of 2010, and you're convinced they all want to blow us up.

Pro tip: if 3 million people wanted to kill everyone in this country using terrorist tactics, they'd have fucking done it by now.


OT: Seems an overreaction, but if it was a temporary thing to prevent tensions running any higher, then I don't think its ludicrous. Especially if there'd been trouble the previous year (caused by the American students).

I'd like to buy you a beer, what's your poison?

 

[Lilani]

so, the school was just trying to avoid conflict
okay, no big deal...

Why should wearing the flag of the nation they are currently citizens of be a point of conflict?

The point of school is to prepare students for the real world. Sheltering them from any possible conflict or difference in opinion is doing them no favors. Of course they should make sure these differences never turn to violence, but if a simple shirt bearing their resident nation's flag is a problem I don't think removing the flag from sight solves the root issue.

Let's inverse the situation. These kids wore the American flag on Cinco de Mayo. Let's say some latino students decide to wear the Mexican flag on the 4th of July. Sure, maybe they're trying to be smug to make a point, but in the real world the adult thing to do is just let them be. Even if you disagree with them, just let them do their thing. They are entitled to their opinions as much as yours. Talk to them about it if you're so inclined, ask about their thoughts. But you don't ask them to remove it to avoid conflict. Conflict is something you have to face in life, and removing it does not remove the feelings which generated the conflict. It only hides them, stashing them away from some other day, maybe in a more heated situation.

I believe you have the right to say what you will, but you do not have the right to not be offended. No authority figure is obligated to make sure your feelings don't get hurt, or people don't crash your party. This is the real world. We shouldn't deny anyone experience in dealing with it.

 

[Phasmal]

They didn't wear American flags because they were proud of their country. They wore them to antagonize Mexican-American students who were celebrating something they didn't happen to be a part of. It's a terrible and offensive use of the flag.

I don't get why more people don't spot this. It's the first thing i thought.

I'm not sure trying to stop them was the best response though, perhaps put them through the standard school punishment system (detention or whatever) without restricting their freedom of speech. Show you support their freedom to speak but not their choice to be antagonistic and xenophobic.

People dont WANT to spot it.
They want something to complain about.

 

[fates_puppet13]

that whole case is stupid
people wearing one national flag shouldn't offend anouther nation or it's subjects with the exception of war and such

 

[Triaed]

Ah, America. Land of... well, funny stories, mostly

 

[shintakie10]

so, the school was just trying to avoid conflict
okay, no big deal...

Why should wearing the flag of the nation they are currently citizens of be a point of conflict?

The point of school is to prepare students for the real world. Sheltering them from any possible conflict or difference in opinion is doing them no favors. Of course they should make sure these differences never turn to violence, but if a simple shirt bearing their resident nation's flag is a problem I don't think removing the flag from sight solves the root issue.

Wearin the flag of the nation they are currently a citizen of is a point of conflict when the people doin so are only wearin the flag as a direct insult to others. These kids chose a very specific day (Cinco de Mayo) to wear the American flag as a shirt. They didn't do it to show nationalistic pride. They didn't do it because they love America. They did it to be massive dicks and made them look like (if they actually aren't) racist twits.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Funny how they celebrate a holiday (Cinco De Mayo) that more than likely has little meaning to most of the people who celebrate it. I wonder how many Mexican-Americans know their history and who exactly was involved in the incidents that spawned this particular "holiday".
To sum it all up, the Mexicans crushed the French in a battle at Puebla. However it didn't last and had the U.S. not stepped in to help, they most likely would have lost the war. More importantly the U.S. helped the Mexicans almost immediately following the end of the Civil War, which says a lot about the U.S. at the time, considering the loss of life the U.S. sustained during the Civil War.
All in all, I believe its messed up that in any way shape or form showing patriotism toward the U.S. is being suppressed in favor of foreign nations and their immigrants, legal or not not-withstanding. In our own country, we are being told that showing our love and devotion to it is a bad thing, and that we may offend people who "may" not be from this country originally... Seriously?
Fuck Political Correctness.


Captcha: Lopez intagen

Lord Inglip, why do you taunt me with vague inferences to the topic at hand?

 

[Frost27]

How do you feel about this?

I side with the school, because I understand how decisions like this are made.

Wearing the flag is not inflammatory per se. But wearing the flag specifically to be jerks to another group? That's different. The students weren't trying to show patriotric pride. They were mocking, taunting, or otherwise going after the patriotic pride of others.

Now, is it possible the kids doing the whole Mexican flag thing were also just trying to stir up trouble? Sure. It's possible the whole episode was one big, "I dare ya to say something!" The problem is, if that was the case, that the "USA" group took the dare.

We want to turn it into something about the flag, but it's not. It's about one group of kids trying to goad another group of kids into an altercation. They were using the flag, not honoring it.

The school's decision had nothing to do with the flag. It had to do with the fact that a group of kids were trying to pick a fight with another group of kids, and trying to hide that behind the technicality of "it's just a flag." The school wisely saw through the ruse and said, "No, you're trying to stir the shit. We'll have none of it."

Why? Because if even the slightest bit of violence had occurred between those kids:

1. Someone would have played up any injuries and made a big deal.
2. Someone would claim the school should have "seen it coming," so they're at fault.
3. Someone would contact the ACLU to get lawyers involved.
4. Everyone would sue the school, rather than each other, because the school is more likely to have money.

If two kids were trying to turn your yard into a battleground, you would remove them so that you don't get sued when they hurt each other.

While I disagree, you do make valid points and I can see your argument. Unfortunately the article does not say whether "tensions were building" and it does not convey whether or not the students wore the shirts in a "Lets show those Mexican's" versus a patriotic purpose, versus a "You can celebrate Cinco de Mayo based on where you are from, but don't forget where you are".

I don't live in California, I live in Iowa, and while we have a large hispanic population here, the ratio is nothing like the west coast. That said, I grew up in Virginia so in my high school of 2000 students, there were like 5 Latinos. I have never experienced what these students are experiencing right now. However, I can certainly imagine in a place with a high ratio, the motive for promoting your own national pride while someone else promotes theirs of another country might take on an angle closer to solidarity than inflammatory, at least at first.

Does this lead to the possibility of future trouble? Sure, but I would have much rather a school of all places use this sort of issue as an educational opportunity rather than bludgeon the issue in a controversial way that leaves one side feeling bitter and the other has learned nothing. Now the bitterness is still there and nothing has been accomplished.

 

[MattRooney06]

My Dad (being an Ex soldier) is a very patriotic man, because of this we brought him a flag pole, the Union flag, and a host of other British military flags for his birthday, naturally he loved them, he proudly displays the Union flag, most of the neighbors love it (he's always been a very eccentric guy)

Now recently a Polish family moved in at the end of our road, they took imediete offense to the flag, they called the local council and complained, two days later we had a note from the council ordering us to take it down, My dad replied with a letter stating that it was on our property and complied with all existing building regulations, he also explained that he didn't mean anything by having the flag up, and it had been up for a few months before this new family had arrived. We later received another letter telling us to either take it down or go to court, My Dad chose court.

Thankfully the jury agreed with my dad, and our flagpole still stands proud in the front garden, the day after we got back from court my dad put up a polish flag just to annoy them, we still get complaint letters through the letterbox about it.

Proper on topic now: It's ridiculous, if the Mexican students had been genuinely offended then it would have been understandable..annoying but understandable, but they were not, it's just someone who things minority's need molly coddeling

 

[Lilani]

so, the school was just trying to avoid conflict
okay, no big deal...

Why should wearing the flag of the nation they are currently citizens of be a point of conflict?

The point of school is to prepare students for the real world. Sheltering them from any possible conflict or difference in opinion is doing them no favors. Of course they should make sure these differences never turn to violence, but if a simple shirt bearing their resident nation's flag is a problem I don't think removing the flag from sight solves the root issue.

Wearin the flag of the nation they are currently a citizen of is a point of conflict when the people doin so are only wearin the flag as a direct insult to others. These kids chose a very specific day (Cinco de Mayo) to wear the American flag as a shirt. They didn't do it to show nationalistic pride. They didn't do it because they love America. They did it to be massive dicks and made them look like (if they actually aren't) racist twits.

As I wrote in my edit:

Let's inverse the situation. These kids wore the American flag on Cinco de Mayo. Let's say some latino students decide to wear the Mexican flag on the 4th of July. Sure, maybe they're trying to be smug to make a point, but in the real world the adult thing to do is just let them be. Even if you disagree with them, just let them do their thing. They are entitled to their opinions as much as yours. Talk to them about it if you're so inclined, ask about their thoughts. But you don't ask them to remove it to avoid conflict. Conflict is something you have to face in life, and removing it does not remove the feelings which generated the conflict. It only hides them, stashing them away from some other day, maybe in a more heated situation.

I believe you have the right to say what you will, but you do not have the right to not be offended. No authority figure is obligated to make sure your feelings don't get hurt, or people don't crash your party. This is the real world. We shouldn't deny anyone experience in dealing with it.

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

agreed, in england (HOME turf! ) we cant ask for black coffees or sing ba ba black sheep, a song as old as the hills.....

 

[leethal]

Well, I'm glad to have been proven right in my guess that this was legal when this story first cropped up.

School children don't have absolute free speech, if the school can prove that the shirts are disruptive (say, for inciting ethnic tensions), then they can be told not to wear them. I think it's silly to conflate what are clearly ethnic tensions with patriotism. They didn't wear American flags because they were proud of their country. They wore them to antagonize Mexican-American students who were celebrating something they didn't happen to be a part of. It's a terrible and offensive use of the flag.

I should also note, that it was once considered wildly inappropriate, and gauche to print an American flag decoration on any item of clothing. I still think of it as kind of tacky, it's a gross form of plastic patriotism.

It's also in the Flag Code, which is strictly voluntary, but I wonder if any of these alleged patriots have ever read it.

exactily what i was thinking.
the kids and the mexicans (theyre not innocent in this) tried to piss off each other.

if a war was to break out between say holland and belgum, any dutch living in belgum can wear the dutch flag to show their pride for their country BUT everyone else is going to see it as trying to start something, the past events put the racial tensions very high in the senario its the war and in the school its the other alteration.

im going to asume the shirts were just stars and stripes, if they wanted to rep they could have just worn a national jersy.

 

[jawakiller]

Hey, Mexicans have feelings too. Nobody gives a shit but they still do have them nonetheless.

God, I hate california. In a nice way though *eyes the sensitive people who will ***** about such an unfair statement*

Yep. Hate them in a nice way...