Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.

[DiMono]

Welcome to America, where the thought that you might offend someone trumps common sense. Same reason they have stupid warnings on things you can buy; if they don't tell you not to do something stupid with it, and you do something stupid with it, you can sue them for not telling you not to do that stupid thing. It's ridiculous.

 

[Frost27]

yeah they may have been doing it for an asshole reason, but if mexicans can wear the mexican flag on the fourth of july here, then i dont see why we need to bother respecting a holiday that isn't even our own. cause no one else respect our holidays thats for damn sure.

I think Mexicans can get away with the inverse because they're surrounded by American culture. They're not giving a big "screw you" to American people, they're reminding themselves of their own culture. They're not setting out specifically to antagonise.

And the whole damn world respects your holidays. Hallowe'en, Valentine's Day and all that commercial bullshit was popularised by America in their current forms. 4th of July is a lot more famous worldwide than Cinco De Mayo.

valentines days and halloween are not american, halloween started in ireland and both have religious origins.
yeah it may be FAMOUS, but i dont think anyone else celebrates it.

I never said they were American, i said they were popularised in their currnt forms by America. Which is true.

The same can be said for pretty much any American holiday that wasn't founded here. We have a habit of taking traditions from other countries and turning them into celebratory annual events like Octoberfest, St. Patrick's day, Cinco de Mayo, and plenty of others. Granted, most are about having an excuse to drink to excess but hey, to each their own.

I happen to be, in large part, of Irish ancestry. I am proud of that heritage even though I have never been there and I do have a small Irish flag in my bedroom, an Irish flag on my High School class ring, and other small items here and there. If my dad hadn't had a rebellious streak that put him on the wrong end of a Nun's ruler one too many times, I would have grown up in an Irish Catholic family. Does this mean if I get upset when someone tells me that wearing an Irish flag could incite feelings of racism in some blacks due to heightened historical racial tensions between the Irish and Blacks post 1865, that I have no right to complain? In this example, the flag and icons in question aren't even on their home soil but given the situation, the outcomes could be quite similar.

As to posts above about nationalism not making sense or being stupid, to each their own but I have to disagree. I think we have recently (over the last 30 years or so) seen a lack of national pride do more harm than good all over the world. Our national identities are what make our countries great and a global identity brings on global problems. I respect other nationalities and ethnicities but I also want my own and am quite proud of it.

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

eh, ok the blacksheep news story was in Birmingham, not southamptopn, and the black coffee bit is true, and i wish i was kidding, other than that, not much else i can say, this is becoming a bit of a impasse, peace

agreed, in england (HOME turf! ) we cant ask for black coffees or sing ba ba black sheep, a song as old as the hills.....

not asking for black coffees has never been a thing and the ba ba black sheep was a lie if i remember correctly. At best, it was 1 stupid person who said that and the entire country said they were stupid. If you're going to talk about us being too concerned with political correctness, actually use decent stories.

im not talking about "you" being to concerned about political correctness, and the ba-ba black sheep wasnt a lie, my younger brother was told of and we got a letter home when he asked for it to be sang...and when i said" we cant ask for black coffees" i meant it is frowned upon to say that, and your meant to say coffee without milk.... back on topic, i can understand the concern, but it is a bit OTT in my opinion.

Nobody frowns upon people asking for black coffee. I have never heard of anyone even blinking at that. Have you been told off for the phrasing before? I guess there must be some people that ridiculous, but I doubt there's many at all.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/600470.stm
http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/01/01/the-baa-baa-black-sheep-myth/
As i said, at best it was a one-off incident and everyone else said it was silly.

eh, ok the blacksheep news story was in Birmingham, not southamptopn, and the black coffee bit is true, and i wish i was kidding, other than that, not much else i can say, this is becoming a bit of a impasse, peace? On topic, i still think is stupid, i honestly think some people are just to thin skinned....

 

[NLS]

Well, I'm glad to have been proven right in my guess that this was legal when this story first cropped up.

School children don't have absolute free speech, if the school can prove that the shirts are disruptive (say, for inciting ethnic tensions), then they can be told not to wear them. I think it's silly to conflate what are clearly ethnic tensions with patriotism. They didn't wear American flags because they were proud of their country. They wore them to antagonize Mexican-American students who were celebrating something they didn't happen to be a part of. It's a terrible and offensive use of the flag.

I should also note, that it was once considered wildly inappropriate, and gauche to print an American flag decoration on any item of clothing. I still think of it as kind of tacky, it's a gross form of plastic patriotism.

It's also in the Flag Code, which is strictly voluntary, but I wonder if any of these alleged patriots have ever read it.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general

Exactly this last part here. I Don't get this fetish certain americans have for their flag and sticking it up to everything they have. A flag is a flag, and shouldn't be tainted by every day use.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

flag based apparel is lame.

doesn't matter which country: if you dress up in the flag, you look like a tool.

 

[Frost27]

This incident happened in San Diego?

I have many friends and family members who reside in that area. Almost everyone of them has shared with me that the local public school system has been dealing with a surge of growing neo-nazism and racial tension. According to them, incidents like this are common, and white nationalists hide behind the veil of American Patriotism.

Snip

Just as say I would defend anyone's religious beliefs, but wouldn't defend a man in full Hasidic Garb walking into the women's section of a mosque during prayer time and reading the Torah just to cause a stir.

Unfortunately the article didn't specify whether or not the students were of this variety or if they took a more racist stance vs a nationalist one. It seems that would be quite relevant though I would imagine that the atricle's author would have included that bit if it were the case in this particular occurrence.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

The picture in the article is fairly misleading. The shirt in question did not have a small American flag in the middle. The kids came to school wearing shirts with a full American flag over the entire shirt.

These kids in question just happened to where a full body American Flag shirt on Cinco De Mayo? There is patriotism, and then there is spoiling for a fight. These kids were wearing shirts with the intent to antagonize the other students.

Also, this is not to say that you can't wear an American flag on a shirt. Its saying that doing so with the express purpose of antagonizing others can be stopped in school. These kids can wear their flag shirt any other time of the year. Imagine if you were having a 4th of July party and someone wore a shirt with the Union Jack. Even if the person in question was British, you probably wouldn't think they were being patriotic, you would think they were trying to antagonize people.

 

[shadyh8er]

Surely they can settle their differences over some tacos and hamburgers!

They can't. And don't call them "Shirley."

OT: Well, so much for "these colors don't run."

 

[The Youth Counselor]

This incident happened in San Diego?

I have many friends and family members who reside in that area. Almost everyone of them has shared with me that the local public school system has been dealing with a surge of growing neo-nazism and racial tension. According to them, incidents like this are common, and white nationalists hide behind the veil of American Patriotism.

Snip

Just as say I would defend anyone's religious beliefs, but wouldn't defend a man in full Hasidic Garb walking into the women's section of a mosque during prayer time and reading the Torah just to cause a stir.

Unfortunately the article didn't specify whether or not the students were of this variety or if they took a more racist stance vs a nationalist one. It seems that would be quite relevant though I would imagine that the atricle's author would have included that bit if it were the case in this particular occurrence.

The previous year, in 2009, a group of Mexican students marked the holiday by walking around campus holding a Mexican flag. A group of white students responded by hanging a makeshift American flag from a tree and chanting "USA." According to the Chronicle, tensions flared and the two groups faced off with profanity and threats.

The article directly implies that the two incidents are linked and also implies that the students are of that variety.

Also responding to your post about your Irish ancestry, how would it feel to have a group of marchers going into a St. Patrick's Day Parade flying the Union Jack?

 

[DSQ]

If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.


The article in question can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/18/opinion/navarrette-t-shirt-controversy/

But the difference is american is not an opressed minority in the uk.

My opinion on this depends on the circumstances. It could be the school overrecting but it could also these three kids trying to stir up trouble in a school where they have alot of mexicans.

If i were to were an england football shirt on st Andrews day then you better believe I would have been sent home.

Also note this: "When you wear it to a high school with a dress code that explicitly prohibits "any clothing or decoration which detracts from the learning environment.""

 

[AMAZED]

lol americans

not wearing their flag because it might ofend someone? that just stupid. Specially considering that every friking american movie, tv series, video game, etc MUST HAVE BY LAW their flag for a few seconds on screen (not necesary by law, but it's always there).

Actually I don't remember the last time I saw an american flag displayed as you described in any of the shows here, except for cases where it was a self parody.

 

[Frost27]

If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.


The article in question can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/18/opinion/navarrette-t-shirt-controversy/

But the difference is american is not an opressed minority in the uk.

My opinion on this depends on the circumstances. It could be the school overrecting but it could also these three kids trying to stir up trouble in a school where they have alot of mexicans.

If i were to were an england football shirt on st Andrews day then you better believe I would have been sent home.

Also note this: "When you wear it to a high school with a dress code that explicitly prohibits "any clothing or decoration which detracts from the learning environment.""

Banning the wearing of clothing bearing a nation's flag under a policy of "any clothing or decoration which detracts from the learning environment." seems not only like a weak interpretation of that policy but flat wrong as well. Those rules exist to keep shirts with materials deemed obscene out of the classroom. In High School, a friend of mine wore a Metallica "Ride the lightning" shirt with the text "Metal up your ass" on the bottom of the front. They made him put tape over the word ass (which was actually quite funny) based on my school having the same policy.

How does a nation's flag, not to mention the flag of the nation the school resides in, detract from the learning environment? It doesn't, people's reactions to it detracted from the learning environment. What the hell is this school going to do on flag day? We used to decorate the halls...

Now the students, if they are in fact more racist than nationalist, are going to find other ways of getting at each other since the "be more colorful" option is off the table. The fact remains, neither side has learned anything and many of the students and their families may even feel oppressed now where a more tactful solution would have produced more popular results.

 

[mocruz1200]

im mexican, and i find this fucking bananas.

 

[Merkavar]

i cant see how wearing a flag shirt is offensive. they should have punished people who were being racist or offensive not people who wear a shirt.

 

[Liquid Paradox]

Surely they can settle their differences over some tacos and hamburgers!

Or Hamburger Tacos!

Seriously, though, read the article, and you will see that there is a bit more to it then censoring t-shirts... said white students had been previously using the American Flag to taunt and ridicule the Mexican students, seemingly for no good reason. They were asked to turn their shirts inside out not because of what was on them, but because they were being worn with the express purpose of taunting other people, which could have led to violence. School did the right thing.

 

[Thyunda]

Wearing a flag shirt in any country is fine. Waiting until another nation's festival to be held in your area before wearing your flag? That's messed up. That deserved to be brought up.

Cinco de Mayo is clearly a Mexican festival. Why would you go dressed as a bloody flag for that? That's just ridiculous. It's like interrupting a military funeral with a chorus of 'Go On Home British Soldiers'. Okay, you're standing up for your country. I get that. But there's a time and a place, and if the time and place is supposed to be celebrating somebody that is not you, then hold your damn tongue and turn your shirt inside out. What part of 'Cinco de Mayo' said 'America! Fuck yeah!'?

 

[Soviet Steve]

Our national identities are what make our countries great and a global identity brings on global problems. I respect other nationalities and ethnicities but I also want my own and am quite proud of it.

North Korea is the most fervently nationalist country on the planet. This makes them great by your logic.

OT: The area was mostly unpopulated regions taken from Mexico during wars in the 1800s in what would be considered wars of aggression by today's standards. I can see it making sense from the school's POV that just saying 'no flags on clothes' might allow them to appear neutral and focus on simply teaching rather than delving into or inflaming the conflict, though I feel unqualified to say if this is a good option. I can see how it makes sense but not if it will work.