Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.

[GartarkMusik]

......What. Arbitrary. SILLINESS.*

I see what you did there, good sir!

OP: I think I remember hearing about this, and I think it's just as stupid now as it was back then, magnified by the fact that the legal proceedings took so damn long. One word: DERP. -_-

 

[Char-Nobyl]

wow...
fuck that school, that judge and that whole state.

i do not care if my nations flag offends some one else, that more then likely(given the state) doesn't have the legal right to even be in the country to start with. i will wear should i choose to, and if they don't like it then to god damn bad

Let's see...assumption that the majority of Mexican-Americans are here illegally? Check.

Assumption that the previous assumption is somehow a license to crash ethnic holidays? Check.

Congratulations! You're a racist!

Or, alternatively, you just didn't take the time to read it very well and think about it. You made piles of assumptions that villified one side, and then you didn't bother to confirm them. Which, in a lot of ways, is more damaging than actual racism.

All I could think of was Bandit Keith:

Oh, man, I loved watching that Abridged series...in American.

Seems pretty ridiculous to me though. The school was probably just avoiding conflict (maybe?), but the fact that the court sided with the school is kind of sad. There's nothing wrong with wearing such clothing in the same damn country you're promoting.

We've already got flag poles for that. And, frankly, the country does that pretty well on its own. You don't see companies put advertisements for themselves up inside their own building.

But, on the other hand, it was noted that they did this on Cinco de Mayo, so I can't really say otherwise if the kids were doing it to piss off the Mexican students, or it was just a coincidence. *shrugs*

And that detail where students had tried to crash a Cinco de Mayo celebration the previous year, which almost devolved into violence.

Look, this wasn't coincidence. The white students/their families wouldn't be complaining so hard if it had been coincidence. People who accidentally say/do things that offend others don't usually immediately invoke their right to free speech when someone confronts them over it. It's the implied guilt equivalent of police showing up at your doorstep and screaming, "I didn't kill him!" when shown a picture of a missing person.

That's just stupid. When I go to another country I EXPECT to see that country's flag all over the place, no matter how much I may not like it. I mean it's common sense to me that a country should have the right to wave their own flag around on their own turf.

And indeed, that's true...but that isn't what was happening here. This was a group of kids trying to turn the American flag into a weapon of racial hatred. The previous year, upon seeing Mexican-American students celebrating the very same holiday, they'd "...responded by hanging a makeshift American flag from a tree and chanting "USA.""

That isn't showing pride in your country. That isn't showing respect to the flag. It's the act of degrading an ethnic group for trying to celebrate one of their holidays and pointing at your cheap T-shirt and saying that the flag gives you the right to do it.

If anything, that's worse than a lot of ways people try to deliberately disrespect the flag.

Hahahahaha! Wrong my friend, all the anti-hate nonsense and political correctness has long since strangled any public signs of patriotism, it's all well and good for immigrants to parade around the streets proclaiming their religious dominance, waving their flags and chanting death to the west. But woe betide any British person if they wave their flag, oh egads, it might offend the immigrants!!

This is the lunacy we contend with, we don't even have freedom of speech, and it is being eroded by the euphemism of hate speech laws, it's fine for immigrants to sail into this country, swamp entire towns and run them into poverty ridden, disease carrying slums. And all they have to do is point at one of us and complain we're being racist, and wahey! It's off to the cells for you.


Yeah I'm bitter that my own country is being eaten by parasites...we seriously need a constitution like our American cousins...with a 1st Amendment, a 2nd Amendment would be nice too...one can hope.

There are some...issues with a few statements there, but to be frank, I've seen the situation in England, and it isn't pretty.

I'm oversimplifying, but I think part of the problem stems from not actually being able to be racist on a large scale like the US did. That sounds completely backwards, but around when was it that Britain started becoming a lot less white? Most of Britain's race-fiascos were overseas (ie, India), and on the Isles themselves, legislation came from the notion of preventing institutionalized racism versus ending it, as the US did.

Let's be honest: a white president ended slavery. A white president sent white soldiers to ensure that a white school could not forbid black students from entering. For all the talk about reverse-discrimination, white people earned a shitton of points in relatively recent history when it comes to racial equality, and it was because we somehow managed to set up such a broken system in a, again relatively, short period of time. If this were a conspiracy theory, it would be that white people created slavery so that when they needed to, they could be the heroes for ending it and make everything short of slavery or racial segregation seem a lot less serious.

 

[R3dF41c0n]

I bet Ben Franklin is rolling in his grave now. This country is far too worried about "offending" people.

 

[Frost27]

Our national identities are what make our countries great and a global identity brings on global problems.

I did not, however, imply that the degree of national fervor was related to any nation's validity, greatness, or the overall view of others from outside their borders.

I feel these two sections contradict each-other. Nationalism's only internal benefit is that it suppresses internal dissent during wartime, otherwise it has little influence within the nation. Outside views on a nation tends to be influenced heavily by nationalism. If Germany was still militantly demanding the return of Elsaß-Lothringen their diplomatic relations would be severely damaged.

I see where the confusion arises. The intent I was trying to convey was more the validity and importance of nationalism from a personal perspective. As in, its import to the individual or group practicing it.

I do have to disagree that it's only internal benefit is supressing dissent during wartime, though that has been a use for it in the past in cases. Nationalism is also what brought about the American industrial revolution, kept the American economy and industry alive during World War II and allowed not only the American revolution but many other revolutions around the world to thrive and succeed. And while it was turned to a dark purpose, it is what allowed Germany to drag itself from its state after WW I to the superpower it was at the start of WWII.

While nationalism can often have negative connotations and uses, pride in a nation is not always a bad thing.

 

[willsham45]

The motion dont do that it offends people offends me.

I would say don't ware an american flag on your t-shirt cause it looks sitty...But then again that is my opionion and to that I do not have much in the sence of fation sense. If it may offend someone I might be more include to do so.

There is a lot worce than a t-shirt that has a picture of your national flag on it. What would happen if you wore a different flag, rusher, korea, china, mexico...wales. Why should it offend anyone.

I would can think of a load worce things to ware...I got a pisshead t-shirt and a killer entertainment t-shirt. they are worn all over no one carese.

But then again. This sort of thing just goes in the americans are stupid file...or maybe more acurate american leaders are stupid, I have not yet met an yank that has made me think bad of them.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

Jesus christ... Four pages, and only a handful of people actually read the article. Are you guys actively trying to be offended by "political correctness"?

And that's not even mentioning the implicit racism in over half of the posts here, by the way.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.

Hahahahaha! Wrong my friend, all the anti-hate nonsense and political correctness has long since strangled any public signs of patriotism, it's all well and good for immigrants to parade around the streets proclaiming their religious dominance, waving their flags and chanting death to the west. But woe betide any British person if they wave their flag, oh egads, it might offend the immigrants!!

This is the lunacy we contend with, we don't even have freedom of speech, and it is being eroded by the euphemism of hate speech laws, it's fine for immigrants to sail into this country, swamp entire towns and run them into poverty ridden, disease carrying slums. And all they have to do is point at one of us and complain we're being racist, and wahey! It's off to the cells for you.


Yeah I'm bitter that my own country is being eaten by parasites...we seriously need a constitution like our American cousins...with a 1st Amendment, a 2nd Amendment would be nice too...one can hope.

Holy shit, people like you exist?

I thought this kind of ignorance and bigotry was a joke, you know, like Daily Mail readers.

[HEADING=1]You were supposed to be a joke![/HEADING]

OT: Meh, from my experience, the type of people who wear flags on their shirts tend to just a tiny bit too nationalistic for my taste. But then again, I'm British, so my sense of patriotism is more subtle.

 

[Electrogecko]

Agree with OP. I may not like my country all that much and I may believe that wearing a shirt that has ANY national flag blazoned on it is obnoxious, but this is ridiculous.

 

[Kahunaburger]

From what I've seen over the years, they've yet to prove me wrong.

Have you ever been to America? Walk down any street and look around. Anyone who isn't of indigenous descent is an immigrant or the direct descendant of immigrants.

I've never gotten how Americans can use the term immigrant. Everyone there is an immigrant or descendant from one. Seriously how do you make sense of that?

Generally, we only use it to describe first-generation immigrants, although yeah, I'm a little confused about how anyone from here (or really, anywhere else) can go through the intellectual contortions necessary to be anti-immigrant.

 

[scotth266]

Those protesting the school's actions should take into account the fact that this is not the first time the American flag has been used as a means of protesting the presence of Cinco De Mayo celebrations in the area.

A group of white students responded by hanging a makeshift American flag from a tree and chanting "USA." According to the Chronicle, tensions flared and the two groups faced off with profanity and threats.

This says to me that the American flag was being used as an attempt to suppress the cultural heritage of others. Cinco De Mayo (while being mostly celebrated by Hispanics in the traditional way) is no longer a "Mexican" holiday. It has become integrated into American culture by this point as a way of expressing America's universal acceptance, our immigrant-based nature (and an excuse to buy beer), much like St. Patrick's Day.

Attempting to suppress the Cinco De Mayo celebrations of Hispanic students celebrating their origins and new identity as Americans by using the American flag is as stupid as attempting to do the same thing for St. Patrick's Day, Kwanzaa, or any other significant holiday tied to immigration. It's an attempt to mislabel xenophobia as patriotism.

However, there is something peculiar I noticed in the article:

The previous year, in 2009, a group of Mexican students marked the holiday by walking around campus holding a Mexican flag.

Were these students overseas students, legal immigrants, or illegal immigrants? I mean, there's no context here when the writer uses the word "Mexican". If it's overseas students (celebrating a Mexican holiday as Mexicans) or legal immigrants (celebrating a American holiday as Americans), than the response from the white students is nothing but unjustified xenophobia.

If it's illegal immigrants, then their response is still over-the-top xenophobia, but at least there's some sort of reason for it other than the typical "foreigners taking over my country" schlock, because illegal immigrants celebrating a holiday openly seems like it would kind of be in-your-face. "Yeah, I managed to hop the border and consider myself a citizen, now you have to deal with my culture" does not exactly send the right message to people who might already be against illegal immigrants, and would only serve to reinforce their prejudices.

 

[Lunar Templar]

wow...
fuck that school, that judge and that whole state.

i do not care if my nations flag offends some one else, that more then likely(given the state) doesn't have the legal right to even be in the country to start with. i will wear should i choose to, and if they don't like it then to god damn bad

Let's see...assumption that the majority of Mexican-Americans are here illegally? Check.

Assumption that the previous assumption is somehow a license to crash ethnic holidays? Check.

Congratulations! You're a racist!

so are you, and everybody else to one degree or another. you gonna be going anywhere interesting or worth while with this or just clogging my inbox?

 

[hotsauceman]

The picture in the article is fairly misleading. The shirt in question did not have a small American flag in the middle. The kids came to school wearing shirts with a full American flag over the entire shirt.

These kids in question just happened to where a full body American Flag shirt on Cinco De Mayo? There is patriotism, and then there is spoiling for a fight. These kids were wearing shirts with the intent to antagonize the other students.

Also, this is not to say that you can't wear an American flag on a shirt. Its saying that doing so with the express purpose of antagonizing others can be stopped in school. These kids can wear their flag shirt any other time of the year. Imagine if you were having a 4th of July party and someone wore a shirt with the Union Jack. Even if the person in question was British, you probably wouldn't think they were being patriotic, you would think they were trying to antagonize people.

Thing is with your example. You arent in Britain(well not "You", but you get what i mean). You are in american and so where these happened. This is plain old pandering to something which doesnt need to be pandered too.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Fox news is gonna have a field day with this one.

More OT: Now... I read the article, so I've seen the history, and yes, you could assume that these shirts were worn as a sign or protest (why you're protesting this I have no idea, cause most people dont even know what the day means, but eh). However, if the situation were reversed, meaning this took place in Mexico, the us students wanted to celebrate january 8th, and were offended by the Mexican flag on that day, I dont think this would fly.

...

In the end, the US flag will always fly highest in the US (literally) as long as it remains the US. No country should ever punish a student for wearing current symbol of it. Not to be "that guy" in anyway, but the Mexican students need to remember where they are, and while they do deserve some respects for this day, but if someone wanted to wear a shirt with an US flag that day just because (I know I have... 5 shirts with the US flag on it just because I shop at old navy and like the colours), they should not be asked to turn it inside out.

 

[pirateninj4]

I should also note, that it was once considered wildly inappropriate, and gauche to print an American flag decoration on any item of clothing. I still think of it as kind of tacky, it's a gross form of plastic patriotism.

It's also in the Flag Code, which is strictly voluntary, but I wonder if any of these alleged patriots have ever read it.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general

Thank you, for research and general intelligence.

Anyone who wears the American Flag outside of national holidays and international sports/competition events looks terrible anyway.

 

[angry_flashlight]

This isn't about the US flag, because surely the school itself would have the stars & stripes flying in the front of the building. This about a bunch of jerks trying to provoke others by using the flag to entice an ethnically-charged confrontation.

 

[Dastardly]

post

I would be a little bit inclined to agree with you if you would also hold the other side to the same standard. I don't have to go dig through the internet to find a litany of links proving nationalistic provocation by promoters of the country they're NOT currently in, not only in America but in Europe.

We don't have to apologize for who we are. We are not barbaric or intolerant for showing pride. It's called rising above needless self-loathing, and proudly and confidently having an identity.

EDIT: I somewhat take it back, as you do present some balanced points. However, I want to hear someone on your side give equal condemnation to someone other than evil 'murricans.

We absolutely do. I do, at least. No one in this case was asking American students to "apologize" for who they are. But, for God's sake, everything is American every single day of the year. These kids couldn't let the Mexican-American students have one day without trying to pick a fight with them?

I know that I'm no fan of some of the "Black History Month" school assemblies that do little but waste time as a "talent show" for black students that the non-black students have to watch (but not participate in)... or the ones whose sole purpose is to incite anger toward white students, when neither the white students nor the black students participated in any of the Civil Rights Era atrocities being cited.

When anyone uses their culture as a shield to protect themselves from valid criticism of indefensible behavior, it's a major problem. I don't shy away from calling it out.

It just so happens that we hear more about the majority oppressing the minority because there are simply more of them, so you're going to find more examples and they'll be more visible.

 

[everythingbeeps]

Hell, the amount of patriotism required to actually wear a shirt with the flag on it is borderline offensive to me, and i'm an american.

I just don't understand that degree of patriotism at all.

 

[colourcodedchaos]

For goodness' sake, what IS it with people from the United States and patriotism? It's like smack for countries; you think it's awesome when you're high on it, everyone looking on knows it's bad for you, and it turns you into a wreck.