Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.

[Crazy]

Fine, I won't wear any shirt at all. Or pants. Or socks. Or even underwear. I'll just paint the flag on, and see who gets offended first.

 

[Rad Party God]

I'm mexican and I don't know how the situation is over there, but here, I see lots of people in downtown wearing other flags that aren't ours, heck, they're not even from those nations, I mean, you can see people wearing US Army shirts, Jamaican shirts for those who like reggae stuff, London shirts, heck, even blatantly wearing US shirts and nobody even cares!, I may even go as far as saying that some people look at it as a fashion of sorts.

Heck, I don't even care about that day, it's not as celebrated, or even important, as other people may think.

If I were one of those mexicans, I'd be pissed off by the people thinking they know me, that offends me more than wearing a flag in a stupid day.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

To begin, First Amendment rights are forfeit when they interfere with education in public schools. This is a very well-established ruling. The relevant case being Tinker v. Des Moines. Specifically, speech may be regulated in cases where it is expected to "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school."

Second, this presents a very clear problem. The school has a history of related problems on this specific day including threats of violence and these students are very clearly trying to provoke this sort of reaction. This is not people merely expressing a love of the US, this is people expressing that love as a reaction to a minority group having pride in their own heritage, attempting to denigrate that heritage.

To pretend like that isn't what's going on here is silly. And if that is what's going on, school officials were very much justified in their actions.

TL;DR: There is a big difference between saying "The US is great, I love the US!" and saying "You think Mexico is great? The US is great! Fuck Mexico!".

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Well, I'm glad to have been proven right in my guess that this was legal when this story first cropped up.

School children don't have absolute free speech, if the school can prove that the shirts are disruptive (say, for inciting ethnic tensions), then they can be told not to wear them. I think it's silly to conflate what are clearly ethnic tensions with patriotism. They didn't wear American flags because they were proud of their country. They wore them to antagonize Mexican-American students who were celebrating something they didn't happen to be a part of. It's a terrible and offensive use of the flag.

I should also note, that it was once considered wildly inappropriate, and gauche to print an American flag decoration on any item of clothing. I still think of it as kind of tacky, it's a gross form of plastic patriotism.

Everyone, please listen to this post. There is much wisdom within.

I remember hearing about this story near the time the event actually happened (I think it was on a Cracked article) and my thoughts were 'so of all the days you could have chosen to show your 'patriotism' you chose the one day when they had the chance to be proud of their native culture?'.

Let's be blunt, this isn't any violation of free speech or any sign that 'this is what's wrong with our society', it was a bunch of obnoxious little shits who wanted to give a xenophobic 'fuck you' to the other students and get away with it.

So Americans can't be proud of their culture? Since when did cinco de mayo allow others to dictate how I dress? If I can wear a shirt with the English flag on St. Patricks day or India Independence day (Aug 15), then I should be allowed to wear the American flag on cinco de mayo. Nobody should get special treatment.

 

[DracoSuave]

So Americans can't be proud of their culture?

If you were truly proud of your flag you wouldn't wear it as a t-shirt. That's actually disrepecting the flag.


Now if you asked 'Should I have the right to disrespect my flag?' I'd say, yes. Go ahead. But don't think for a second that the proper way to treat your country's flag is to wear it.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

This is an old story, and has been debated to death. What's missing from the media is context. The students (debatably) wore the flag as a sign of provocation. Much like a Christian is free to walk through a predominantly Hindu area wielding a bible in the middle of Diwali, and reading psalms through a megaphone, there's no doubt that doing so is a.) a dick move, b.) designed to provoke or rile up tension, and c.) another case of pissing on someone's bonfire, depriving them of their harmless fun (as Diwali is a festival of celebration, much like Cinco de Mayo).

From my perspective, it seems as though the students were wearing the flag as nothing more than a culturally imperialist display disguised as patriotism (nationalism), which is not a display of pride, but of hatred. Especially at a time of heightened racial tension and strong opinion of anti-immigration.

Of course, I could well be wrong, as the perspectives from both sides differ, and the media conveniently omits this rather important information.

Had they been students who often wore the American flag as apparel, which could be true, then it might have been a case of oversensitivity from the PC brigade. Had they been bowling through shouting U-S-A, U-S-A, which is equally as likely, then it's their behaviour, rather than their clothing, that might be construed as offensive to an otherwise harmless celebration.

That said, I don't know the facts, and neither do those who read the newspapers. Question it! Question it all! Doubt your news! Cease the judgements, as there is more to this story than the media represents.

if the f***king neo-nazis can march in a parade in Skokie (a suburb wear a lot of Jewish holocaust survivors live) then these kids can wear a certain shirt. Others that tells me that its ok to mess with old war victims, but not to potentially "offend" other kids, which would be wrong.

 

[cheese_wizington]

Californians are ridiculous. Half of the stupid stories about everyone being so touchy feely about political correctness are from that state. This is just another case of people needing to get the fuck over themselves.

 

[rangerman351]

Surely they can settle their differences over some tacos and hamburgers!

Oh hell yeah

 

[let's rock]

I would wear a shirt with a bigger flag on it the next day, and a pair of pants with one on it (don't own one but I do own blue jeans, and red and white paint, could make one), and wear an american flag as a cape, plus putting tempoary hair die in red white and blue on, with face paint. If the mexicans have a problem with that, they can GO BACK TO MEXICO. This is America, if you don't like it, leave and go to a country you do like.

 

[rangerman351]

OK , first, you really aren't supposed to wear the flag on a shirt. Second, the kids should have a little common sense and steer clear of the Mexican kids. Third. As long as the american kids weren't going out of their way to instigate the mexicans, the principal shouldn't have said anything unless a complaint was filed.

 

[rangerman351]

Er, the students wore the shirts for the express purpose of being dicks.

Now let's get this straight:
- wearing a shirt with an American flag on it because you like being an American = OK
- wearing a shirt with an American flag on it because you want to piss off your school's resident Mexicans = NOT OK

Even so, I think the school overreacted the second time around, since the students in question were just wearing the shirts (rather than carrying an American flag and chanting "USA, USA"), but I think the students also overreacted. There were overreactions aplenty going around, and I approve of the school's desire to prevent the episode that occurred on the last Cinco de Mayo a lot more than I do of the students' desire to sue the school for not letting them be dicks.

Sir, I think you summarized my point better than I could.Bully good sir, bully!

 

[Monsterfurby]

Then again, why would anyone want to wear a t-shirt with a flag on it? I mean, it's definitely an individual's choice and I think that getting worked up over someone wearing their own county's flag on a short within their own country is amazingly stupid, but I don't think I have ever seen a t-shirt with any county's flag on it, except for the US. Just thinking it to be a little bit odd.

 

[Deacon Cole]

This is just dumb-plated stupidity. If the Mexicans really had a problem with the American flag, then they probably shouldn't be living in America, now should they? But then, it is foolish to involve the Mexicans in this embarrassing situation at all as it seems they weren't really involved. Just a couple stupid tits afraid the American flag might offend them while they are living and going to school in America. There is politically correct and then there's just stupid. These people are the latter.

 

[ckam]

On Cinco de Mayo... This sounds like the teens or whatever wanted to piss off some people, so I say it's a good call. Go nuts.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Umm... Is the judge a Republicunt? Or was this statement made from a democrat?

I honestly can't tell what side of the politics this is coming from.

 

[Dense_Electric]

On Cinco de Mayo... This sounds like the teens or whatever wanted to piss off some people, so I say it's a good call. Go nuts.

Yes, God forbid someone wear a T-shirt depicting the flag of the country they're in. Frankly if someone get offended by seeing the flag of the country they currently live in, that sounds like their own fucking problem.

Anyway, I kind of agree with MovieBob that the phrase "politically correct" doesn't really mean anything anymore because it gets thrown around in some circles like a comma, but this is an exception to that rule. In fact, this is a prime example of how political correctness can still be a legitimately bad thing.

 

[sleeky01]

Wearing the flag is not inflammatory per se. But wearing the flag specifically to be jerks to another group? That's different. The students weren't trying to show patriotric pride. They were mocking, taunting, or otherwise going after the patriotic pride of others.

This guy hits the nail on the head. Patriotism is fine, but it sounds like these students were mocking another culture using the flag as both a weapon and a shield. Pretty cowardly, and disrespectful to what the flag symbolises imo.

Hmm.... Reminds me of the thread around here arguing the difference between Patriotism and Nationalism.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

yeah they may have been doing it for an asshole reason, but if mexicans can wear the mexican flag on the fourth of july here, then i dont see why we need to bother respecting a holiday that isn't even our own. cause no one else respect our holidays thats for damn sure.

I think Mexicans can get away with the inverse because they're surrounded by American culture. They're not giving a big "screw you" to American people, they're reminding themselves of their own culture. They're not setting out specifically to antagonise.

And the whole damn world respects your holidays. Hallowe'en, Valentine's Day and all that commercial bullshit was popularised by America in their current forms. 4th of July is a lot more famous worldwide than Cinco De Mayo.

You need to look up the origin of Halloween because it is not American in origin, so it's not our holiday. Yes we celebrate it, but we also celebrate Oktoberfest but that doesn't mean than now that German celebration is American. Also, Valentines day has to do with the catholic saint, who is NOT American. Again, we might have made these holidays more popular, but they are not "American" holidays. Now, Thanksgiving would be another story....

 

[Something Amyss]

Dammit. I can't stand it when people ask me not to be an inflammatory dick! Boo! Boo!