Dota 2's automated mute system - Valve's most prominent stuff up

[endtherapture]

First day it was on, I got reported and muted for 24.

I haven't been muted since despite my passive aggressivism in Dota 2 chat.

 

[Retardinator]

If I'm right, the tribunal system works a bit differently. First you do shit, then you get reported, which ends up on the tribunal for player review. If a player receives enough punish votes on the tribunal it then goes to player support techies who review the cases (again) and set up a punishment that fits the crime.

It's basically just a filter so Riot techies don't have to sort out falsely reported people or minor/one-time offenders.

But it's still people doing all the work.

Also, is it just me or has Valve slowly been losing their shit this last few years? They've done nothing significant in a long while (at least as far as their games are concerned) and everything they seem to do just makes me question their capabilities even more.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

I can, just won't. For me words have a meaning and it's important that they convey the message I want to give, in that case the message would be:

- You making this errors.
- You could be doing better by making this changes.
- Stop being retarded and making the same mistake several times.

Prioritizing getting the message across as well as my limited use of the language allows takes precedence over taking care of the receiver's feelings for me.

I also realize the vast majority of volunteers of the tribunal might disagree, however this is permissible in HoN and DotA which I mechanically prefer anyway, that's why I will almost never play LoL alone.

Lastly I agree with you in that "The tribunal standards are not unpredictable or bonkers any more or less than the reporting standards are in the first place", that is exactly my issue, reporting is made by the random players you are paired with, I would expect a company that makes millions to give a professional service to the customers complains on those reports, not a crowdsourced one to volunteers on the net. Then again, after stuff like champs being locked and the whole rune/skill metagame, I shouldn't expect Riot to put the game over the business.

Edit: For the record I have the same issue with Blizzard using torrents to distribute data. Using people to do work the company should is amazingly cheap and unprofessional.

 

[Vegosiux]

-snip-

I can, just won't. For me words have a meaning and it's important that they convey the message I want to give, in that case the message would be:

- You making this errors.
- You could be doing better by making this changes.
- Stop being retarded and making the same mistake several times.

Prioritizing getting the message across as well as my limited use of the language allows takes precedence over taking care of the receiver's feelings for me.

Their feelings are a factor in whether or not your message gets across.

It might just be me, but I'm of the opinion that calling someone a retard makes it harder to get a message across since they're more likely to refuse to listen to the message if it's delivered in a derogatory manner. First rule of communication for me - if you want to get a message scross to someone and maximize the chance of them listening to it and considering it, you do not insult them.

So yes, you could fault them for being whiny wusses if they refuse to listen after you've called them names, but it's still you who chose not to maximize your own chances of people listening.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

gg wp report Valve unskilled player
I stopped playing DOTA after like 10 games or something. Be more unintuitive kthx. The autoattacks are painfully stiff and the mana costs are so high they're almost pure Anti-Fun.

I liked Crystal Maiden though. Stun, slow, hilarious ult and something to help alleviate the Anti-Fun. Pretty fun.

It just depends on who you're playing. And yes, last hitting is harder in Dota. (also, in Dota it's imperative you use the S key. spam that badboy) I can understand how a LoL player would find it frustrating it doesn't take their almost autistic habit of tower-tower-hit doesn't net them tons of money anymore. There's also denying to look out for and tower and creeps have a better priority system. I recently played LoL on a friends account since he wanted to have a game with me, and after months of not touching that game, the last-hitting was just piss easy and my mana is constantly full on a character that's really dependent on skills and has one of the strongest early game nukes with E. I'd say that's borderline broken. (Twitch)

When it comes to skillshots and especially ranged auto-attacks, I prefer Dota a lot more. In LoL especially I found the range indicators to be inaccurate, not largely inaccurate, but even a 10 unit difference is quite noticable when it comes to things like Kog E, Nida Spear, Lux laser etc. The range indicators have unnecessary frills and decorations that mislead you concering the actual range and width.

Mana costs depend on the hero, but for most mages it's not that bad. You have to remember that Dota(2) is a really balanced game, especially when compared to casuals like LoL. That means that your small mana pool and/or high costs have a valid reason. The numbers are well thought out and have been tweaked constantly. Tiny for example, as mentioned before. Terribly slow attack speed, high mana costs. Why? His damage and utility are fucking ridiculous. A Tiny with mana boots and Aghanims (Aghanims bonus: Purchasing Aghanim's Scepter grants Tiny aoe auto-attacks, extra auto-attack damage against buildings, extra auto-attack range, and increased Toss damage) can stomp 1v3s if they're physical damage dealers. So yes, it needs to be difficult to get to that stage where you have these two items. I've played mid on him before and even though it took most of my mana, when I was farmed enough, two of my stuns and a toss was enough to kill my opponent. Also: Buy Bottle and mana boots. (2000G altogether)

Please stop using the term anti-fun. It's a ridiculous term that Riot Games came up with as an excuse as to why they're nerfing completely acceptable characters. For the person on the receiving side of bullshit, everything is anti-fun. Being stunned is not fun, being knocked back is not fun. Dying isn't fun. I can continue. Anti-fun is a bullshit term used by a dev team who has the slighest clue about hero balance. They removed mana drain because it's not fun and people used it on tanks. Instead of making resistances counter the mana removal (and thus fixing the issue) they just remove it altogether. Dodge es RNG, thus anti-fun because you miss a lot of hits, which can be countered by an item (old SotD), but why force your audience to counterbuild when you can just have every character have exact duplicate builds right? Like what the fuck? Remove dodge. People don't buy vision wards and oracles? Better remove or nerf all stealth into the ground (Eve/Twitch). It's quite funny that all these mechanics work in the other MOBAs, but LoL deems it anti-fun. So we summarize these removed features as things that hinder you when used against you, so where is the difference in mana drain (thus being unable to attack as a skill user) and a long chain of CC or Silence? Was the mana drain really relevant with the amount of mana items available to tanks? (Froz Heart, Banshees)

Riot used the term anti-fun when they meant to say simplifying it so we can appeal to a dumber audience. Which they did. You can say whatever you want, but the crowd in Dota (granted you don't sign into the Russian server), from when I only had a few games to my name to a few hundred now- is a lot more intelligent and helpful.

LoL is a stale game that requires ample thinking, and Riot is only seeking to dumb the game down even more. The implementation of the new Black Cleaver for example in the manner that they did pre-nerf, shows everyone they have no clue on balancing. Every type of champion uses the same build more or less. Ranged carries are always going to seek out Infinity, Bloodthirster and Shiv/PD, Quicksilver and Berserker Greaves, tanky physicals will always go Black Cleaver/Warmogs/Merc Threads, mages will always go Deathcap/Sorcs/RoA/Hourglass.

There's no variety and there won't be. Riot tries desperately with new items, but they're either broken (lol that ice glove on Ezreal Q was funny broken in lane) or unused (or a very niche one at best). LoLs items focus on giving raw stats, so it's logical it works this way. There is only one way to get the optimal stats, this much is a given. In Dota, item actives are very important and used to counter strats. You can slow, become magic immune, phase people out of battle, move people, stealth, blink etc. all with items. LoL deems it necessary to restrict these actives to certain roles (an AD carry will never be able to phase out with Hourglass, a mage usually doesn't Quicksilver)

I dislike how instalocking random is a GOOD thing though... I mean... What?

It's not always a good thing, but if there are no picks and you're down for whatever, why not random and get +250gold? I Picking a hero doesn't mean that you automatically consumed a lane. Heroes don't have static lanes like in LoL. If you don't like it, then don't play All Pick, go play Captain Mode with bans/set picks. Also, you can pay 100G to undo your Random choice, if it's really that bad.

This is the one time I'm going to praise LoL.

You know the tribunal system? Where real people judge reports? That shit WORKS bro.

Yeah no, not really. Democracy doesn't work because loldemocracy. You rely on idiots to make a valid decision or decide your fate.

I'm sure you could appeal a 4 day ban into the abyss of LPQ given said screenshots. Just consider that Tribunal reports often turn out unfair also. I remember dozens of threads with questionable bans. People will even punish you for saying things like "what the fuck malphite, why are you full ap and never with the team" or "wow youre a dick stealing my red buff". This whilst strong language can be turned off (is off by default) and both these phrases arent really offensive in competitive play, even if subsituting the swearing with "heck" and "jerk".

 

[A'tuin]

This is the one time I'm going to praise LoL.

You know the tribunal system? Where real people judge reports? That shit WORKS bro.

Yeah no, not really. Democracy doesn't work because loldemocracy. You rely on idiots to make a valid decision or decide your fate.

I'm sure you could appeal a 4 day ban into the abyss of LPQ given said screenshots. Just consider that Tribunal reports often turn out unfair also. I remember dozens of threads with questionable bans. People will even punish you for saying things like "what the fuck malphite, why are you full ap and never with the team" or "wow youre a dick stealing my red buff". This whilst strong language can be turned off (is off by default) and both these phrases arent really offensive in competitive play, even if subsituting the swearing with "heck" and "jerk".

Wow, you seem to have a really toxic attitude if you think everyone else is an idiot. Also, "what the fuck" and "you're a dick" is offensive language.

While there are some selfish dicks who play LoL, they don't bother using the Tribunal since they don't gain anything by using it. Tribunal system works a lot better than A.I. with no context or reasoning, like OP mentioned.

I also like LoL's honor system that rewards polite players with shiny ribbons and a pop-up message that basically says "people think you are nice" . Is there some sort of reward system in DOTA2 if you play politely and help new players?

P.S. I got reported once in LoL for destroying the enemy nexus (you know, the main objective of the match) instead of humiliating the enemy team and prolonging the game. Of course I didn't get a warning for that, but the A.I. might have banned me because I got several reports in a single game.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

Can anyone tell me how you know if you've been reported, muted or put in the LPQ? Does the game actually notify you of this?

I've reported a dozen people all of whom where being seriously abusive over voice/text (funnily enough never to me) or they were intentionally feeding (the worst case was one Ursa who said, "okay I'm going to feed" then went 0 -17 before leaving) yet I've only had one notification that action has been taken against them.

Also the fact that it's a F2P game basically means there are no consequences anyway

 

[Schmeiser]

True that, been playing dota for 8 years now and i play some league now and then. But how the fuck is this game out 3 years and there is still no fuckin pause and the client is so shitty.

And the reporting stuff doesn't really happen when you get some "ELO". People just don't care

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

This seems very, very silly. Especially with things like the dota 2 key bot of which several varieties exist:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/dota2bot?l=english
each currently has thousands of keys they'll give to anyone.

I'd be more annoyed by this but for the fact 2 weeks or so ago after noticing it had finally gone open beta (last I looked was a long time ago and it was closed beta) I started playing SMITE. Haven't even looked at DotA again because Smite is just so.....fun.

Sounds bad. In SMITE I'm informed all reports go moderated, but then that's a smaller game and who knows. Still, the fact there is an "intentional feeding" section of the report form infuriates me. I've seen that maybe twice out of 350 games, and you get all sorts of threats like that. "Oh look, you're 0/2 down, reported". Then again, I've had that threat put to me a number of times and I've yet to have a suspension of any kind.

A much bigger problem in SMITE is leavers. Again, that's probably the smaller number of players.

I got reported once in Smite by an arse from League as "Intentional feeding" because I was too early and stepped into the Domination tower's range a split second before the minions did. I just backpeddled and healed the hit straight away but apparently him dying the entire game after that was my fault...somehow.

I think he was accusing me of intentionally feeding him to the enemy? I have no idea, he was really unpleasant the entire game. I know he reported me because I lost 3% goodwill (guessing the moderator wasn't sure wtf was going on and punished me slightly or maybe reports temporarily cause goodwill loss or something). Promptly made that back up next game and it was as if nothing had happened ^^

 

[ItsNotRudy]

Wow, you seem to have a really toxic attitude if you think everyone else is an idiot. Also, "what the fuck" and "you're a dick" is offensive language.

You have obviously not played enough online games or even observed voting behaviour in real life. Or even navigated around a supermarket. When large groups of people are together or need to decide on something, their behaviour is generally dumber. And yes, there are a lot of idiots on LoL. 'mid or i feed' is a term I've seen thrown around more than I'd like and have seen in Dota, but that's the effect of shifting your audience to lower ages with every patch. 12-year-olds aren't smart in this aspect by any means and will throw tantrums, which by adult measures is deemed idiotic. I've played games with children before, and they will get very angry and upset at times when things don't go their way and stop playing or being counterproductive. They have no place in a team game.

And if you steal the red buff I've been doing for the past 30 secs by myself whilst being a mage or going to go a retarded build in ranked play and then ignore the team, for all intents and purposes you are a dick. But language shouldn't matter, because it is filtered and if you were truly offended by it, you'd filter it out. Or rather not untick it forcefully.

While there are some selfish dicks who play LoL, they don't bother using the Tribunal since they don't gain anything by using it. Tribunal system works a lot better than A.I. with no context or reasoning, like OP mentioned.

But context means nothing when the users of the Tribunal are merely out for points. I am fairly sure that whilst there are a lot of cases that are either on the edge or close to it, people will still vote punish, because this gets them IP and the majority will look at Game 1, see the player get frustrated over something and punish him.

I also like LoL's honor system that rewards polite players with shiny ribbons and a pop-up message that basically says "people think you are nice" . Is there some sort of reward system in DOTA2 if you play politely and help new players?

Yes, the same system exists in Dota2 where you can give ribbons for Leadership, Friendliness, Helpful and so on. It's deemed fairly useless and barely anyone asks for +commend as I see "HONOR ME" pop up in every other League game from several corners. It really doesn't add anything to the game if it's not counted in Matchmaking.

P.S. I got reported once in LoL for destroying the enemy nexus (you know, the main objective of the match) instead of humiliating the enemy team and prolonging the game. Of course I didn't get a warning for that, but the A.I. might have banned me because I got several reports in a single game.

What the AI should do is tally reports and send them to a representative. Very bad that it doesn't. While I'm obviously not gonna defend the broken system Dota 2 seems to be in certain cases, I don't think Tribunal is ideal either.

 

[ResonanceSD]

True that, been playing dota for 8 years now and i play some league now and then. But how the fuck is this game out 3 years and there is still no fuckin pause and the client is so shitty.

And the reporting stuff doesn't really happen when you get some "ELO". People just don't care

F8 is pause

It's technically in beta, but what's wrong with the client???

Also what the heck is SMITE?

 

[ResonanceSD]

This thread is interesting. It's like someone took the people from the Valve DOTA forums and took the people from the LoL Forums, and jammed them together.

What do you mean?

Also yeah, late game tiny is fucking ridiculous with Aghanims.

 

[KelDG]

I don't get why anyone would want to play this game, it sounds like a giant douche bag magnet. All I see are the players trying to have fun getting shat on by other players... and now even the game itself.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

So that's probably why I was muted for 24 hours.

Or finding a way to add "suck my dick" into every sentence I used. That might be it.

At that point you're just adhering to DotA culture. To not "add suck my dick" into every sentence would be a criminal offence in that society.

 

[The Wykydtron]

gg wp report Valve unskilled player
I stopped playing DOTA after like 10 games or something. Be more unintuitive kthx. The autoattacks are painfully stiff and the mana costs are so high they're almost pure Anti-Fun.

I liked Crystal Maiden though. Stun, slow, hilarious ult and something to help alleviate the Anti-Fun. Pretty fun.

It just depends on who you're playing. And yes, last hitting is harder in Dota. (also, in Dota it's imperative you use the S key. spam that badboy) I can understand how a LoL player would find it frustrating it doesn't take their almost autistic habit of tower-tower-hit doesn't net them tons of money anymore. There's also denying to look out for and tower and creeps have a better priority system. I recently played LoL on a friends account since he wanted to have a game with me, and after months of not touching that game, the last-hitting was just piss easy and my mana is constantly full on a character that's really dependent on skills and has one of the strongest early game nukes with E. I'd say that's borderline broken. (Twitch)

When it comes to skillshots and especially ranged auto-attacks, I prefer Dota a lot more. In LoL especially I found the range indicators to be inaccurate, not largely inaccurate, but even a 10 unit difference is quite noticable when it comes to things like Kog E, Nida Spear, Lux laser etc. The range indicators have unnecessary frills and decorations that mislead you concering the actual range and width.

Mana costs depend on the hero, but for most mages it's not that bad. You have to remember that Dota(2) is a really balanced game, especially when compared to casuals like LoL. That means that your small mana pool and/or high costs have a valid reason. The numbers are well thought out and have been tweaked constantly. Tiny for example, as mentioned before. Terribly slow attack speed, high mana costs. Why? His damage and utility are fucking ridiculous. A Tiny with mana boots and Aghanims (Aghanims bonus: Purchasing Aghanim's Scepter grants Tiny aoe auto-attacks, extra auto-attack damage against buildings, extra auto-attack range, and increased Toss damage) can stomp 1v3s if they're physical damage dealers. So yes, it needs to be difficult to get to that stage where you have these two items. I've played mid on him before and even though it took most of my mana, when I was farmed enough, two of my stuns and a toss was enough to kill my opponent. Also: Buy Bottle and mana boots. (2000G altogether)

Please stop using the term anti-fun. It's a ridiculous term that Riot Games came up with as an excuse as to why they're nerfing completely acceptable characters. For the person on the receiving side of bullshit, everything is anti-fun. Being stunned is not fun, being knocked back is not fun. Dying isn't fun. I can continue. Anti-fun is a bullshit term used by a dev team who has the slighest clue about hero balance. They removed mana drain because it's not fun and people used it on tanks. Instead of making resistances counter the mana removal (and thus fixing the issue) they just remove it altogether. Dodge es RNG, thus anti-fun because you miss a lot of hits, which can be countered by an item (old SotD), but why force your audience to counterbuild when you can just have every character have exact duplicate builds right? Like what the fuck? Remove dodge. People don't buy vision wards and oracles? Better remove or nerf all stealth into the ground (Eve/Twitch). It's quite funny that all these mechanics work in the other MOBAs, but LoL deems it anti-fun. So we summarize these removed features as things that hinder you when used against you, so where is the difference in mana drain (thus being unable to attack as a skill user) and a long chain of CC or Silence? Was the mana drain really relevant with the amount of mana items available to tanks? (Froz Heart, Banshees)

Riot used the term anti-fun when they meant to say simplifying it so we can appeal to a dumber audience. Which they did. You can say whatever you want, but the crowd in Dota (granted you don't sign into the Russian server), from when I only had a few games to my name to a few hundred now- is a lot more intelligent and helpful.

LoL is a stale game that requires ample thinking, and Riot is only seeking to dumb the game down even more. The implementation of the new Black Cleaver for example in the manner that they did pre-nerf, shows everyone they have no clue on balancing. Every type of champion uses the same build more or less. Ranged carries are always going to seek out Infinity, Bloodthirster and Shiv/PD, Quicksilver and Berserker Greaves, tanky physicals will always go Black Cleaver/Warmogs/Merc Threads, mages will always go Deathcap/Sorcs/RoA/Hourglass.

There's no variety and there won't be. Riot tries desperately with new items, but they're either broken (lol that ice glove on Ezreal Q was funny broken in lane) or unused (or a very niche one at best). LoLs items focus on giving raw stats, so it's logical it works this way. There is only one way to get the optimal stats, this much is a given. In Dota, item actives are very important and used to counter strats. You can slow, become magic immune, phase people out of battle, move people, stealth, blink etc. all with items. LoL deems it necessary to restrict these actives to certain roles (an AD carry will never be able to phase out with Hourglass, a mage usually doesn't Quicksilver)

Yes, Brofist is FUNNY on Ezreal. I dunno about RoA though... That's fallen out of favour so hard and has been for some time. I only ever build it on Diana and even then because i'm not 100% sure how to build her and RoA is a very safe first item. Warmog's is a bit iffy now, so is Bloodthirster because rushing Blade of the Ruined King is the new hip thing for the majority of AD Carrys to do because it counters that annoying League of Warmog's that was around a while ago and you do not take Hourglass on every AP ever. You take it on people like TF because teleport > Zhonya's baits are hilarious. People take Quicksilver almost never because GA is almost certainly going to be a better defensive item. I also personally hate Shiv. Also they nerfed Oracles to the floor so it's not viable to buy one super early then just work on not dying the whole game for picture perfect ward coverage. They nerfed League of Druggies now you can only have 5 potions max, mixed opinions on that to say the least.



Your builds look kinda outdated... Just saiyan.

Having a meta is not always a bad thing. You know what is a bad thing? FUCKING VOYBOY SHEEP! "Oh imma go AP MF mid and feed horribly!"

Never forget AP Tryndamere, never forgive AP Tryndamere.



Riot can't balance. True fact. It keeps things interesting. That League of Cleavers was the biggest oversight i've seen for a while. It's called *The* Black Cleaver instead just Black Cleaver for a reason. It was never supposed to stack but Riot dun goofed.

Oh and does Riot use the term Anti-Fun? I just use that because it makes sense. Yorick is Mr Anti-Fun himself for example. No fun allowed in Yorick's lane, no sir!

Yeah the cast ranges are a bit off but i'm one of the Smartcast Master Race so lol w/e scrub.

The one thing about DOTA people seem to not get about DOTA is, yes it is certainly more complex than LoL. However "complex" is not a synonym for "better." People pls, pls. Get that into your heads.

Well i'm never going to change your mind but you give me a wall of text and I feel compelled to give you a wall of text back :3

Excuse meh but I have a TF game loading in the background. It's time to fuckin' pwn some noobz. Teleport saves OP.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

there is still no fuckin pause

uwot? There is a pause.

I don't get why anyone would want to play this game, it sounds like a giant douche bag magnet. All I see are the players trying to have fun getting shat on by other players... and now even the game itself.

Because the game is fun. Besides, not every game has terrible people, and you can just mute them anyway (which is another reason this automute is stupid).