I took it as a metanarrative statement. The underlying theme of the episode was uncertainty, and the fear bred by it. Making the existence of a monster ambiguous emphasizes that, and reinforces the theme.ElMinotoro said:
Dr Who :Listen
- Thread starter Albino Boo
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The possibility that the Silent were involved is interesting, but it could go a lot of different ways. It's also entirely possible that there was something there and it just wasn't the thing he was looking for. Maybe it was just some other creature, on both counts, if it actually was something. Yeah yeah, hell of a coincidence, but stranger things have most definitely happened. Besides, go looking for trouble and whatnot.M0tty said:
For all we know it could have been that thing from Midnight.
Oh, one thing I just realised...when the Doctor is talking to the guy at the school, saying stuff about monsters and how sometimes your coffee goes missing and implying it's them...and then the guy's coffee goes missing but it was the Doctor stealing it.
Sorta played for comedy, but in hindsight, explains everything.
Sorta played for comedy, but in hindsight, explains everything.
M0tty said:
Err I don't think you intended to be insulting but the figure under the sheet was played by this man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiran_Shah
Mikeybb said:
Well even if it wasnt Gallifrey its still bizzare. Because the Doctor is supposed to be unable to visit any of his people ever again. Timelords are all supposed to be trapped in the time war until the moment destroys them. Which awkwardly explains how a time travelling race could 'go extinct' from the rest of the universes point of view, All timelords are trapped behind the timelock for before anything before the moment burned them. Even if it wasnt Gallifrey Clara still broke through a timelock she shouldnt have been able to. Hell if She wanted to she could have thrown a hood over one of those two who came to visit, bunged them in the Tardis and brought back another Timelord! By meeting young doctor she went into timelord history from before the time war.
I know this is a minority opinion, but I absolutely loathed the episode. Even the episodes where I see faults, I still enjoy watching the episode, often multiple times, or at least find something to like. But this one I hated.
I'm sick of the writers trying to make Clara 'Oh-so-important' all the time. She was there for every single doctor, she was there when the button was pressed and said the words that saved Gallifrey. She's meant to be some child of destiny hand picked by fate to save the doctor as some sort of surrogate mother figure.
Its not just a clara thing, Rose, Donna and Amy were also these wonder-companions who had some predestined thing through their travels.
And now Clara is the monster under the bed and comforted the doctor as a kid? Really? She couldn't be just a normal companion now the trinsalore arc is done? Nope, she's still the special child of destiny.
And the companions being so important to the universe makes the episodes weaker in my view. It reduces the tension knowing that they aren't really in danger because the universe needs them alive.
And (separate unrelated point) clara being this caring figure who checks the bed for monsters to the child version of the guy she was just on a date with is creepy as hell. Given that most of the episode dealt with the character as a child, that creepiness extended through the episode.
Complete lack of self awareness when an old man looks a child in the eyes and says "you should be scared" as he's in the child's bedroom, from a guy who has spent enough time on earth to understand that randomly appearing in a child's room is weird.
The pacing was all over the place and the end of the universe thing seemed to come out of nowhere. And the Doctor would surely remember that HE WAS THERE AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE! Utopia! The end of the Martha season, with the Master and captain Jack!
And there was so much they could have done with the concept. It could have been the return of the Vashda Narada. The silence in the library monster. They were terrifying. I feel they wasted a good concept. The thing we speak to when we talk to ourselves.
If the majority of the series is as good as the Dalek one a couple of weeks ago, then Capaldi may well become my favorite doctor, but if there are more like 'Listen', I'll probably stop watching. I don't want to be one of those fans who hates the show I'm watching.
I'm sick of the writers trying to make Clara 'Oh-so-important' all the time. She was there for every single doctor, she was there when the button was pressed and said the words that saved Gallifrey. She's meant to be some child of destiny hand picked by fate to save the doctor as some sort of surrogate mother figure.
Its not just a clara thing, Rose, Donna and Amy were also these wonder-companions who had some predestined thing through their travels.
And now Clara is the monster under the bed and comforted the doctor as a kid? Really? She couldn't be just a normal companion now the trinsalore arc is done? Nope, she's still the special child of destiny.
And the companions being so important to the universe makes the episodes weaker in my view. It reduces the tension knowing that they aren't really in danger because the universe needs them alive.
And (separate unrelated point) clara being this caring figure who checks the bed for monsters to the child version of the guy she was just on a date with is creepy as hell. Given that most of the episode dealt with the character as a child, that creepiness extended through the episode.
Complete lack of self awareness when an old man looks a child in the eyes and says "you should be scared" as he's in the child's bedroom, from a guy who has spent enough time on earth to understand that randomly appearing in a child's room is weird.
The pacing was all over the place and the end of the universe thing seemed to come out of nowhere. And the Doctor would surely remember that HE WAS THERE AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE! Utopia! The end of the Martha season, with the Master and captain Jack!
And there was so much they could have done with the concept. It could have been the return of the Vashda Narada. The silence in the library monster. They were terrifying. I feel they wasted a good concept. The thing we speak to when we talk to ourselves.
If the majority of the series is as good as the Dalek one a couple of weeks ago, then Capaldi may well become my favorite doctor, but if there are more like 'Listen', I'll probably stop watching. I don't want to be one of those fans who hates the show I'm watching.
Jiffex said:
Xeorm said:
[spoiler/]I you want continuity and cannon you are watching the wrong show. I have been watching the Dr since the mid 70s and it never has had cannon. What the Dr, the Tardis, or the sonic screwdriver can or cannot do changes according to what the writers want to do now. So if Gallifrey is in timelock it can be taken out of timelock by turning the safeties off on the tardis and put back entirely due to the element known as poltonium. Thats one one the reason why the show has been going for 50 years. [/spoiler]
And he was in make up/a mask.M0tty said:Err I don't think you intended to be insulting but the figure under the sheet was played by this man
Thats just how he looks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiran_Shah
No thats just depth of field making him out of focus
Same Image out of focus
Gee Clara looks a lot better with some makeup on!No thats just depth of field making him out of focusalbino boo said:And he was in make up/a mask.M0tty said:Err I don't think you intended to be insulting but the figure under the sheet was played by this man
Thats just how he looks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiran_Shah
#NofilterSome of the responses to this are frying my head. First order of business. This guy is actually right. Their really was a something (as in not a kid) on that guys bed, and yes, it will be relevant.ElMinotoro said:
The second thing is, why are people everywhere ranting about the time lock. How can Galifry be timed locked if the moment was never used. Think about it.
Finally, one of the best episodes of doctor who ever! Hard to reconcile that with the fact that this season has been so bad this far.
Actually...yeah, the term still applies. More appropriately now than prior to Day of the Doctor as a point of fact. Being suspended or otherwise isolated from the Time Vortex in a pocket universe is a time lock. The Yeti episode from the Troughton era pretty much explains it, and the term was used again during a Master story in the Pertwee era.PromethianSpark said:
EDIT: It's my interpretation the War Doctor did use the Moment. It just didn't end up functioning as expected. It's a super-sentient entity and what allowed the Doctor to intersect his own time stream, remember?
Several things I will say in response.Eacaraxe said:
1. The Stasis Cube captures a single moment of time: Galifrey in its last moments, not the entirety of Galifrey's history.
2. Are we even 100% sure that this barn is on Galifrey? I can only think of one line that is evidence for it, from the war doctor when he claims that 'there is still a million billion Daleks up there'. This is kinda flimsy at best.
3. Continuity has never really been a big thing in doctor who, particularly where Moffat is concerned. Doctor Who when you get down to it, is a show made up of deus ex machinas, and these allow just about anything Moffat wants to happen. And this isn't a bad thing.
The Doctors just used the stasis cubes as an example to explain their plan to the Lord-General. It was convenient exposition and therefore to be discarded.PromethianSpark said:
That's the direct implication between DotD and Listen, yes. I'm willing to go with that as it's a parsimonious explanation and clearly what was intended, until clarified otherwise.
Continuity-light is not the same as no-continuity.
Eacaraxe said:
Ok lets take something basic like the Dr regenerating. At first it was called rejuvenation and was property of the Tardis. The second to the 3rd Dr was when is became regenerating and was an ability of a timelord. Timelords have no control over regeneration apart from when Romana changed from Mary Tamm to Lalla Ward where the scene show the Mary Tamm looking a mirror and going through several appearances before ending on Lalla Ward. The 4th Dr changing to the 5th involved the Dr being followed around by a luminous mummy for one serial before merging with 4th Dr and turning into the 5th.
Listen was just continuing in the long tradition of doing whatever works for that story and forgetting continuity when it suits.
Well, 2nd to 3rd was forced upon him by the Time Lords for some reason.albino boo said:
Also, it's harder to forget continuity when you've got the internet and DVDs (instead of watching the thing once on TV), and more importantly, the same writer. Moffat contradicting his own rules he wrote a few episodes ago is a bit different from forgetting what someone else wrote years ago.
...
Just saw this on tumblr (boo hiss!), and reminded me of this ep:
If Moffat was to reveal later on that it was her going round scaring people and being weird...yeah, I'd pay that.