Drag queens: Yay or Nay?

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Relish in Chaos

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I'm extending this question to both cisgender and transgender people. Do you think the whole concept of drag queens, and drag queens themselves, make fun of transgender people, or are offensive in any way?

I believe I've heard a couple of feminists and/or trans feminists who've seen something (as have I) in various media over the years that depicts men dressing up as women, or simply effeminate men, in a humorous light, and question why exactly that's funny. Why would the image of a flamboyant man or a man putting on a dress be so funny for the public, when no-one ever laughs when a woman decides to dress in feminine clothing? Does it potentially imply that society inherently sees femininty as inferior to masculinity, deeming it as trivial compared to the more typically unisex (as determined by society, of course) nature of men's clothing? Is the exaggerated nature of many of these drag queens' clothing and performances poking fun at the way women accessorise themselves, and/or is it an attack on the cosmetics industry? Is it simply because it's "not normal", so it's alright to laugh at people for not conforming to cultural normality?

I don't really know what I think. Personally, I've never found it funny when Bugs Bunny dressed up as a woman and Elmer Fudd tried to hit on him, even when I was younger. But, I guess, since I'm not transgender, I never found it particularly offensive either. But it got me thinking, like how the trope of female-on-male assault or rape (that part in Wedding Crashers springs to mind; it's funny how easily a switching of genders can alter the intent of a scene), or numerous family sitcoms featuring a stupidly incompetent husband and a reliably intelligent housewife, can still be used as a gag in modern television. Or perhaps, at least for the latter, it's just playing on stereotypes (especially when you consider how many of the couple's children in these sitcoms are stereotypical teenagers and/or mirror their gender-matching parent in some way or another), which some would argue there's no harm in because it's effectively self-deprecating humour that is obviously not meant to be taken in factual seriousness.

The reason why I brought this up is because...well, I just find it all so fascinating to think about it. Not to mention I'm studying Sociology at A-Level, so this all ties in and can be used as research for me. So, what are your thoughts?
 

an annoyed writer

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Jun 21, 2012
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As a transgender individual, I find drag queens to somewhat of an irritant because it kinda trivializes the problems we go through. Much of the time when you say that you're trans, some people seem to think that we're all drag queens or something and that can get quite annoying when you're just trying to get on with your life and get things done, because instead of a person with legitimate problems you're viewed as some sort of sexual fetishist. I never found them particularly humorous or amusing either, and those specific bugs bunny cartoons usually bothered me more than they made me laugh.
 

Boris Goodenough

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Just drag queens or also cross dresses? I mean people like Eddie Izzard dress(ed) like that because it makes them feel more comfortable and I am pretty sure they don't do it just to indirectly inflict pain and misery on others.
 

Ultress

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an annoyed writer said:
As a transgender individual, I find drag queens to somewhat of an irritant because it kinda trivializes the problems we go through. Much of the time when you say that you're trans, some people seem to think that we're all drag queens or something and that can get quite annoying when you're just trying to get on with your life and get things done, because instead of a person with legitimate problems you're viewed as some sort of sexual fetishist. I never found them particularly humorous or amusing either, and those specific bugs bunny cartoons usually bothered me more than they made me laugh.

I would say something but this sums my feeling up to a T. Also I tend to find them annoying as most tend to be very flashy and flamboyant.These being traits I'm not particularity fond of.

That being said the only one I did know personally was an alright guy if a little irritating.
 

Angelowl

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To my knowledge dragshows are meant to be a form of satire, with men and women doing each others roles and over-do it as much as possible in order to ridicule gender roles. Nevermind that I never heard in the modern day, all drags are described as entertainers and such. One of my problems with our lgbt-communities. "you dump me in the same group and expect us to get along, when they get PAID to insult my gender identity? Really?!"

Personally they (the queens)seem to ridicule women and feminity and as a transsexual girl who prefers feminine women... I feel like not only are they making fun of my identity but also my preference. It's absurd how this is accepted by feminists. A bunch of men making fun of what they see as feminine.

A comparison to something similar that was popular in America in the twenties. White people painting themselves black, doing over-the-top blackfaces and pretending to be stereotypical african americans. That shit would never fly today and would be seen as a huge scandal if the nevwspapers got wind of it.

Satiring stereotypical black people, hell no! Satiring stereotypical women? Feminists will cheer you on, because we all need a good laugh at the silly stupid female population...

A note, crossdressers who just have a different choice of style/fashion is a whole different thing. Their point is not to devalue feminine identities, on contrair they often have one. Thus they get a free pass, live and let live.
 

an annoyed writer

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UncleUlty said:
You hit another thing on the head that I forgot: I'm not exactly into flamboyancy either and I find those that are can be irritating as well.

Angelowl said:
Snippety Snip!
Agreed on all points, with being into women, femininity, and the comments about how these are modern minstrel shows. And to be clear, I don't mind cross-dressing, but if you're doing it solely to mock me I think I'm in the right to be pissed.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Angelowl said:
A comparison to something similar that was popular in America in the twenties. White people painting themselves black, doing over-the-top blackfaces and pretending to be stereotypical african americans. That shit would never fly today and would be seen as a huge scandal if the nevwspapers got wind of it.

Satiring stereotypical black people, hell no! Satiring stereotypical women? Feminists will cheer you on, because we all need a good laugh at the silly stupid female population...
Except you know...it wouldn't.


There's a white man, playing a white actor playing a stereotypical black man. No one bats an eye at this movie. Why? Because that's the joke.

It's all a matter of degrees, and why people are doing what they're doing. Same thing with drag queens, they aren't dressing in drag because they are trying specifically to make fun of transgendered people, so transgendered people who get offended by it are people who don't understand the point of it.

Hell, the OP brings up bugs bunny dressing in drag as something that should offend transgendered people, but why exactly is it supposed to be offensive to them? It's not like Bugs Bunny dresses up as a woman because he's making fun of the way women dress and behave or because he seeks to misrepresent them. The whole thing is a joke about how stupid Elmer Fudd is that he can't recognize Bugs Bunny when he's wearing a dress. I mean, it's not like this is the only disguise that Bugs Bunny ever fools him with. If you went along the same line of thought matadors would have to be mad at Bugs Bunny for misrepresenting them.

This just seems like a case of people being offended for the sake of being offended.
 

an annoyed writer

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Dirty Hipsters said:
This just seems like a case of people being offended for the sake of being offended.
Or it could be because it makes things a legitimate pain in the ass for people like us for the aforementioned reason:

an annoyed writer said:
some people seem to think that we're all drag queens or something and that can get quite annoying when you're just trying to get on with your life and get things done, because instead of a person with legitimate problems you're viewed as some sort of sexual fetishist.
Ever have your family snub you for that reason? Because I have. It's not fun.
 

Shadowstar38

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I'm an obvious male with no intention of changing gender. Though, I have a habit of wearing nail polish that matches my jacket or using eye shadow. I don't do it for kicks, but because it actually does look cool on me. Weird personal taste I guess. I haven't been called out on it and it's always assumed I'm straight, so I guess most peoble can tell the difference between female quirks and people who wish to be female.
 

ClockworkPenguin

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As a former participant in the peculiar British phenomenon that is Panto, it would be hypocritical of me to disapprove of cross-dressing, whimsy, or any combination of the two. I don't think it is mocking women or transgendered individuals at all, and I don't know anyone who genuinely gets the two issues confused.
 

Angelowl

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ClockworkPenguin said:
As a former participant in the peculiar British phenomenon that is Panto, it would be hypocritical of me to disapprove of cross-dressing, whimsy, or any combination of the two. I don't think it is mocking women or transgendered individuals at all, and I don't know anyone who genuinely gets the two issues confused.
Yeah. Many of us are over-sensitive, at least I am. But after all the shit one has gone through can you expect anything else? Being refused help when being suicidal, called schizofren by specialists who can't tell the difference between psychosis and depression, being told by parents that it's better for everyone if you just kill yourself instead. Then we turn to the lgbt-community. "go play with those extremly flamboyant, sexualised stereotypes over there. You know, the men" Just no.

Our LGBT-communities are very big on the whole "everyone is welcome and accepted no matter what they are." I don't feel like that translates very well into practice. Just as with being bisexual. "Go play with the lesbians OR some straigth guys someplace else, not here."

Not that uncommon that it gets confused here, people are lazy when it comes to learning and we had drag queens for our preliminary for eurovision song contest. Over here, people lump together everything "trans" when they talk about it. But the people who are separists are really horrible, I would much less want to be lumped together with people who want to refuse me the right to a family.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Angelowl said:
ClockworkPenguin said:
As a former participant in the peculiar British phenomenon that is Panto, it would be hypocritical of me to disapprove of cross-dressing, whimsy, or any combination of the two. I don't think it is mocking women or transgendered individuals at all, and I don't know anyone who genuinely gets the two issues confused.
Yeah. Many of us are over-sensitive, at least I am. But after all the shit one has gone through can you expect anything else? Being refused help when being suicidal, called schizofren by specialists who can't tell the difference between psychosis and depression, being told by parents that it's better for everyone if you just kill yourself instead. Then we turn to the lgbt-community. "go play with those extremly flamboyant, sexualised stereotypes over there. You know, the men" Just no.

Our LGBT-communities are very big on the whole "everyone is welcome and accepted no matter what they are." I don't feel like that translates very well into practice. Just as with being bisexual. "Go play with the lesbians OR some straigth guys someplace else, not here."

Not that uncommon that it gets confused here, people are lazy when it comes to learning and we had drag queens for our preliminary for eurovision song contest. Over here, people lump together everything "trans" when they talk about it. But the people who are separists are really horrible, I would much less want to be lumped together with people who want to refuse me the right to a family.
I find it kind of hypocritical how the LGBT community treats some people. On the one hand they make it sound like they're this all inclusive group where everyone is welcome, and that all they want is to be treated the same as everyone else. Then someone makes a mistake and says that someone who is trans is "gay" and suddenly the entire trans community explodes in that person's face yelling "No no, we're not gay, gays are completely different. How dare you even compare us?! You're prejudiced!" According to your own tenants of inclusivity it really shouldn't matter what you're called so long as you aren't being treated differently, but LGBTs get extremely defensive, and downright nasty about rather minor things.

Because of that, things that other groups would just laugh off the LGBT community tends to take extremely seriously and ends up getting offended over nothing.
 

Angelowl

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I guess I have to agree with that. It's complicated and a lot of people have sensitive toes, bunch together a lot of people of different sorts and it can get messy. It could be counter-productive that the community makes everyone want to find their own identity and their own place, so you get a load of categories and people get upset if don't acknowledge them the way they prefer. My own issue is that the community is for people of non-ordinary sexualities and gender identities, I have both and still I conclude that I don't fit in at all.

Minor nitpicking, did you have to use the most obvious issue as your example. The whole sexuality =/= gender/sex is pretty damn simple. To screw something up worse than that would be saying that "liking girls are gay" when talking about guys.

Not entirely sure about that, expectations and reacting in an upset manner when people don't live up to them is pretty damn common. If you don't follow the unwritten rules you will at best be seen as odd and at worst get yelled at (unless it's really mess up). And the etiquette of LGBTQ-communities are that you keep yourself informed and ask how before you assume things. Barging in an stating false things is seen as terribly rude (at least over here).
 

AngelOfBlueRoses

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Well, that depends, are we including crossdressers in this equation? I ask because not many people make a distinction between them.

I also ask because I'm a crossdresser. My gender is fairly fluid, though I've no intention of changing my sex. I don't act like some annoying caricature of women, however, which drag queens are sometimes known for. My mindset switches, but rarely does my attitude, which itself is so androgynous anyways.

I don't really have too much experience with drag queens to answer the rest properly, though.

Dirty Hipsters said:
Angelowl said:
ClockworkPenguin said:
As a former participant in the peculiar British phenomenon that is Panto, it would be hypocritical of me to disapprove of cross-dressing, whimsy, or any combination of the two. I don't think it is mocking women or transgendered individuals at all, and I don't know anyone who genuinely gets the two issues confused.
Yeah. Many of us are over-sensitive, at least I am. But after all the shit one has gone through can you expect anything else? Being refused help when being suicidal, called schizofren by specialists who can't tell the difference between psychosis and depression, being told by parents that it's better for everyone if you just kill yourself instead. Then we turn to the lgbt-community. "go play with those extremly flamboyant, sexualised stereotypes over there. You know, the men" Just no.

Our LGBT-communities are very big on the whole "everyone is welcome and accepted no matter what they are." I don't feel like that translates very well into practice. Just as with being bisexual. "Go play with the lesbians OR some straigth guys someplace else, not here."

Not that uncommon that it gets confused here, people are lazy when it comes to learning and we had drag queens for our preliminary for eurovision song contest. Over here, people lump together everything "trans" when they talk about it. But the people who are separists are really horrible, I would much less want to be lumped together with people who want to refuse me the right to a family.
I find it kind of hypocritical how the LGBT community treats some people. On the one hand they make it sound like they're this all inclusive group where everyone is welcome, and that all they want is to be treated the same as everyone else. Then someone makes a mistake and says that someone who is trans is "gay" and suddenly the entire trans community explodes in that person's face yelling "No no, we're not gay, gays are completely different. How dare you even compare us?! You're prejudiced!" According to your own tenants of inclusivity it really shouldn't matter what you're called so long as you aren't being treated differently, but LGBTs get extremely defensive, and downright nasty about rather minor things.

Because of that, things that other groups would just laugh off the LGBT community tends to take extremely seriously and ends up getting offended over nothing.
I'm a member of the LGBT community and I can completely understand how hypocritical it can be, especially in regards towards the B and the T part of said community. The B (bisexual) is generally thought down of, but nowhere near as much as the community itself treats transsexuals. You think transsexuals getting defensive is bad? Try being a part of the LGBT community and have quite a huge chunk of your own community hate and revile you and that's what being the T in LGBT is like.

The LGBT community tries to bill itself as inclusive, but in reality there's tons of in-fighting.

And this is coming from someone who supports the LGBT movement.
 

KungFuJazzHands

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Drag queens? Sure, why not? They don't offend me, I don't offend them. Works out for both parties. If someone else is bothered by them, it's not my problem.
 

DudeistBelieve

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Sep 9, 2010
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I don't know, I don't see a problem with it. Just a bloke in a dress.

Though I had a gay coworker once, was writing a paper about Rupaul. The drag queen dude? And I read it, and I was shocked I actually had to point out to him he shouldn't be referring to Rupaul as a she since he still identifies with being a man at the end of the day... my suggestion was basically blown off.

Meh.

AngelOfBlueRoses said:
Well, that depends, are we including crossdressers in this equation? I ask because not many people make a distinction between them.

I also ask because I'm a crossdresser. My gender is fairly fluid, though I've no intention of changing my sex. I don't act like some annoying caricature of women, however, which drag queens are sometimes known for. My mindset switches, but rarely does my attitude, which itself is so androgynous anyways.

I don't really have too much experience with drag queens to answer the rest properly, though.

Dirty Hipsters said:
Angelowl said:
ClockworkPenguin said:
As a former participant in the peculiar British phenomenon that is Panto, it would be hypocritical of me to disapprove of cross-dressing, whimsy, or any combination of the two. I don't think it is mocking women or transgendered individuals at all, and I don't know anyone who genuinely gets the two issues confused.
Yeah. Many of us are over-sensitive, at least I am. But after all the shit one has gone through can you expect anything else? Being refused help when being suicidal, called schizofren by specialists who can't tell the difference between psychosis and depression, being told by parents that it's better for everyone if you just kill yourself instead. Then we turn to the lgbt-community. "go play with those extremly flamboyant, sexualised stereotypes over there. You know, the men" Just no.

Our LGBT-communities are very big on the whole "everyone is welcome and accepted no matter what they are." I don't feel like that translates very well into practice. Just as with being bisexual. "Go play with the lesbians OR some straigth guys someplace else, not here."

Not that uncommon that it gets confused here, people are lazy when it comes to learning and we had drag queens for our preliminary for eurovision song contest. Over here, people lump together everything "trans" when they talk about it. But the people who are separists are really horrible, I would much less want to be lumped together with people who want to refuse me the right to a family.
I find it kind of hypocritical how the LGBT community treats some people. On the one hand they make it sound like they're this all inclusive group where everyone is welcome, and that all they want is to be treated the same as everyone else. Then someone makes a mistake and says that someone who is trans is "gay" and suddenly the entire trans community explodes in that person's face yelling "No no, we're not gay, gays are completely different. How dare you even compare us?! You're prejudiced!" According to your own tenants of inclusivity it really shouldn't matter what you're called so long as you aren't being treated differently, but LGBTs get extremely defensive, and downright nasty about rather minor things.

Because of that, things that other groups would just laugh off the LGBT community tends to take extremely seriously and ends up getting offended over nothing.
I'm a member of the LGBT community and I can completely understand how hypocritical it can be, especially in regards towards the B and the T part of said community. The B (bisexual) is generally thought down of, but nowhere near as much as the community itself treats transsexuals. You think transsexuals getting defensive is bad? Try being a part of the LGBT community and have quite a huge chunk of your own community hate and revile you and that's what being the T in LGBT is like.

The LGBT community tries to bill itself as inclusive, but in reality there's tons of in-fighting.

And this is coming from someone who supports the LGBT movement.
Yes the delightful irony of all these radical leftist groups, they pretend to be all inclusive but really they're not. They're as ignorant and bigots as those on the right they rebel against.

And then you got the lovely way the feminist and the transwomen get along.

I try explaining this to people when they ask me why I oppose things like GLADD, but they don't listen.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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If you are offended at something that exists mostly for laughs, you probably are taking life too seriously.

If you aren't offended but dislike it because other people might find it offensive, you are taking life way too seriously.
Da Orky Man said:
I'm British. Drag is the closest thing we have to a national costume:

-ohmy0
Is that John Cleese in a bikini?

Dear god, I think I've found love.
 
Aug 1, 2010
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Erm...... I had never even heard of people being offended by drag queens.

That's just silly.

There's really no good reason to be offended by it any more than anything else that trivializes something.