Drag queens: Yay or Nay?

[ThreeName]

Yes the delightful irony of all these radical leftist groups, they pretend to be all inclusive but really they're not. They're as ignorant and bigots as those on the right they rebel against.

And then you got the lovely way the feminist and the transwomen get along.

I try explaining this to people when they ask me why I oppose things like GLADD, but they don't listen.

Gotta love the hard left. There's a rather large feminist organisation in Australia called "Destroy the Joint", and I can't stand them. They spend so long bitching about "gender roles" and "stereotypes", then turn around in the next breath and claim that single mothers should be getting more benefits as caregivers. Because single fathers don't exist, do they? No need to be anti-stereotype when it benefits you. Asshats.

OT: I like drag queens. They seem to like and enjoy what they do, and more power to them. They're sending up gender roles. If that actually offends you, you really need some perspective.

 

[kickyourass]

I have no problem with Drag Queens in general, I mean, I find RuPaul's crap irritating as hell but outside of that I don't really have much of a problem with them. It's not really my scene though, I have zero interest in drag shows, or any of that sort of thing, it just doesn't appeal to me. Strangely though one of my favorite movies is Priscilla, Queen of the Desert and it is the one and only thing Drag Queen related that I enjoy at all.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

As a transgender individual, I find drag queens to somewhat of an irritant because it kinda trivializes the problems we go through. Much of the time when you say that you're trans, some people seem to think that we're all drag queens or something and that can get quite annoying when you're just trying to get on with your life and get things done, because instead of a person with legitimate problems you're viewed as some sort of sexual fetishist. I never found them particularly humorous or amusing either, and those specific bugs bunny cartoons usually bothered me more than they made me laugh.

I have to say, and i knew this coming into this thread, this fine young lady would nail my thoughts to a "T" *hehe*.

I don't think drag queens are horrible or offensive, but at the end of the day, they can take off the wig, dress, breast forms and go from Regina to Roger, and not get a single disgusted look or hateful comment as they walk down the street. I think RuPaul is actually bad for the trans community. Sure he "supported" the 2(?) girls from his show who came out as trans, but some of the things he's said about us in the media, and such are pretty harsh.

 

[Charli]

I'm British. Drag is the closest thing we have to a national costume:

I was JUST thinking about how to tip toe around this. And yes.

Sorry but this kind of thing is way too ingrained in British Humor. If you cannot laugh at it... there is no hope for you.

There's a distinct difference between a serious transgender/crossdressed woman or man. It's damn obvious most of the time when effort is made and the person expects to be taken as seriously as if you were in a business suit.

Drag Queens... there's a spectrum of seriousness to the affair. But Comedy has made great use of this through out history, and seeing a big tough burly man in a frilly pink dress haphazardly is still funny, just as seeing your todder (both male or female) waltzing around in your high heeled shoes. It is poorly fitted for a reason, and that is the accentuation of the humour deep down.

All you have to do is look for the subtleties and don't concern yourself so much. It's terribly easy to tell when it's played straight as opposed to played for comedy.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Yes the delightful irony of all these radical leftist groups, they pretend to be all inclusive but really they're not. They're as ignorant and bigots as those on the right they rebel against.

And then you got the lovely way the feminist and the transwomen get along.

I try explaining this to people when they ask me why I oppose things like GLADD, but they don't listen.

Gotta love the hard left. There's a rather large feminist organisation in Australia called "Destroy the Joint", and I can't stand them. They spend so long bitching about "gender roles" and "stereotypes", then turn around in the next breath and claim that single mothers should be getting more benefits as caregivers. Because single fathers don't exist, do they? No need to be anti-stereotype when it benefits you. Asshats.

OT: I like drag queens. They seem to like and enjoy what they do, and more power to them. They're sending up gender roles. If that actually offends you, you really need some perspective.

I've met very few real feminist in my life that were legit about equality.

We do have a patriarchy problem, don't get me wrong.

 

[Nadia Castle]

At the last pride I went to a little girl pointed me out to her two mums and said 'look mummy, a drag queen!'. My trans instinct told me to be annoyed but she was just too unbelievably cute for that. Personally I don't have any problems with drag queens as a thing, but some take the whole 'bitchy' act waaaaaay too far. Putting on a show is all well and good, but drag queen djs are usually a recipe for disaster in a night club...

 

[TehCookie]

Most men confident enough to wear a dress and make-up are usually fun people or people wanting to have fun. I find drag queens possibly more offensive to women than trans, it's a man dressing as a woman not a man wanting to become a woman.

 

[Syzygy23]

Drag Queens please nobody it seems. Trannies feel marginalized and women feel oppressed and belittled.

Also, can someone explain to me how there isn't any overlap between "homosexual" and "Transexual"?

As far as the mechanics are concerned, it seems to me that two people with matching chromosomes are doinking eachother, which counts as homosexuality by definition.

 

[an annoyed writer]

I actually find that interesting. As someone who's been interested in transgender (and not academically either more timid maybe approach) I had always kind of thought that the whole "drag queen" thing was kind of the first step on the way to rather then something different. This may be an error in definition though does drag queen mean just dressing up like a girl or does it refer to the whole los vegas show look at me I'm a guy dressed as a girl thing. Cause if it's the second one then yeah I agree but I always thought it had a broader definition.

Drag queens are primarily flamboyant performers that while they might have a feminine dimension to their personality, do not actually identify as women. So your second definition is much closer to the actual scenario. While there's some cross-pollination, and some do wind up going the transsexual route, most drag queens follow your second definition.

 

[piinyouri]

It's not my thing, but it doesn't bother me.
They usually are not transgender and in the end it's all for entertainment.

Sometimes they aren't the best people to be around though.

 

[Mossberg Shotty]

As a transgender individual, I find drag queens to somewhat of an irritant because it kinda trivializes the problems we go through. Much of the time when you say that you're trans, some people seem to think that we're all drag queens or something and that can get quite annoying when you're just trying to get on with your life and get things done, because instead of a person with legitimate problems you're viewed as some sort of sexual fetishist. I never found them particularly humorous or amusing either, and those specific bugs bunny cartoons usually bothered me more than they made me laugh.

You think that someone only has the right to dress as a member of the opposite sex if they're transgender? And that if they don't have the correct 'bits' or whatever, that they're trivializing your struggles? That really strikes me as an elitist attitude, saying that drag queens are all sexual fetishists that are somehow a step below you because they didn't get some kind of gender-altering surgery.

Gender-altering surgery is another thing that I've never bought into, I think there's no escaping the sex you were born into, and theres nothing wrong with that. But that would be getting off topic.

This makes me wonder what kind of person gets upset at someone cross-dressing, but apparently it's the same person who gets offended by a child's cartoon.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

I believe I've heard a couple of feminists and/or trans feminists who've seen something (as have I) in various media over the years that depicts men dressing up as women, or simply effeminate men, in a humorous light, and question why exactly that's funny. Why would the image of a flamboyant man or a man putting on a dress be so funny for the public, when no-one ever laughs when a woman decides to dress in feminine clothing? Does it potentially imply that society inherently sees femininty as inferior to masculinity, deeming it as trivial compared to the more typically unisex (as determined by society, of course) nature of men's clothing? Is the exaggerated nature of many of these drag queens' clothing and performances poking fun at the way women accessorise themselves, and/or is it an attack on the cosmetics industry? Is it simply because it's "not normal", so it's alright to laugh at people for not conforming to cultural normality?

If you're looking to understand the psychology behind why (some) people find drag amusing, then I think you perhaps need to step back from any social commentary, and first work out what the fundamental question being asked is.

In this case, it's not anything to do with gender, or even necessarily culture, at all. Gender/culture roles and perceptions is a misdirection you've set for yourself, because what you're *really* looking to analyse... is comedy , the far more fundamental/abstracted question of 'what makes something 'funny''.

Rowan atkinson did a neat video on the subject.... sorry for the subtitles but i was lazy and just went to the first video of 'laughing matters' i found. I did however link you directly to the part in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9fsn6lQBV4&feature=player_detailpage#t=321s
((at 5:20 if you're not following the link))

There may also be social or gender considerations that play their part, but it ultimately comes down to the unexpected being amusing, which is a pretty interesting insight(atleast, to me it was). For people who do not find drag to be unexpected, or have become accustomed to it, the amusement won't be there, because that's just how our brains work. Same reason why hearing the same joke over and over becomes less funny, it's no longer unexpected.

My question has always been on the next level down though... why are unexpected things amusing? I kinda have a theory that in the same way some mental illnesses include abnormal responses to certain stimulus, laughing at unexpected things is our brains not knowing how the hell to respond and so it goes with amusement. Amusement in turn may have then lead us to seek out more of these unknown/unexpected things(since it makes us feel good/happy), and thus this 'abnormal' response helped us evolve and learn and thus survive, becoming the norm in our species.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

As a straight white male, I'm cool with drag queens and transvestites. I think (and I'm going to be /really/ unpopular for saying this) that full blown transgender, as in the chopping bits off and getting hormone replacement variety, on the other hand, is a product of just how bloody hung up we are as a society on the socially mandated aspects of gender. You identify with the societal aspects of femininity, great. You still have a penis, and chopping it off isn't going to change that, you're just going to be a dude who chopped off his penis.

I also think bisexuality is more of the natural state in the animal kingdom (including among humans), and it's pure hetero- or homo- sexuality that is "unnatural" (whatever you take /that/ to mean), despite being heterosexual and totally uninterested in having homosexual sex.

Edit: I mean, if you really want to do it and you're an adult, fine, go for it. It's your body, not mine. I just don't think it's something that would happen in a society that was less effed up when it came to gender issues.

 

[ThreeName]

I've met very few real feminist in my life that were legit about equality.

We do have a patriarchy problem, don't get me wrong.

Oh, I concur. I'm on board with the stated goals; it's the execution that drags me down.

To use a more related example, I saw the guy who established the It Gets Better thing interviewed. A support network for bullied LGBT kids, yeah, good concept. But as soon as he said "straight kids go home to a loving family while gay kids go home to more abuse", I almost threw up. I just can't support a group whose leader has such a skewed view of reality.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I've met very few real feminist in my life that were legit about equality.

We do have a patriarchy problem, don't get me wrong.

Oh, I concur. I'm on board with the stated goals; it's the execution that drags me down.

To use a more related example, I saw the guy who established the It Gets Better thing interviewed. A support network for bullied LGBT kids, yeah, good concept. But as soon as he said "straight kids go home to a loving family while gay kids go home to more abuse", I almost threw up. I just can't support a group whose leader has such a skewed view of reality.

Are you serious? I sincerely hope he meant that gay kids are abused more on average or something, because to state that straight kids never have to deal with abusive parents is absolutely absurd.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I've met very few real feminist in my life that were legit about equality.

We do have a patriarchy problem, don't get me wrong.

Oh, I concur. I'm on board with the stated goals; it's the execution that drags me down.

To use a more related example, I saw the guy who established the It Gets Better thing interviewed. A support network for bullied LGBT kids, yeah, good concept. But as soon as he said "straight kids go home to a loving family while gay kids go home to more abuse", I almost threw up. I just can't support a group whose leader has such a skewed view of reality.

Holy shit, that legit?

As the older I've gotten in this world, I've realized I'm incredibly lucky to have the parents that I have. Had I been gay they wouldn't of really given a damn. The things I've seen of other peoples home lives in my late teens. S'Fucked up, I promise you.

That said, I knew of a gay girl in high school. When she came out to her mother, said parent refused to talk to her for 3 days.

 

[an annoyed writer]

As a transgender individual, I find drag queens to somewhat of an irritant because it kinda trivializes the problems we go through. Much of the time when you say that you're trans, some people seem to think that we're all drag queens or something and that can get quite annoying when you're just trying to get on with your life and get things done, because instead of a person with legitimate problems you're viewed as some sort of sexual fetishist. I never found them particularly humorous or amusing either, and those specific bugs bunny cartoons usually bothered me more than they made me laugh.

You think that someone only has the right to dress as a member of the opposite sex if they're transgender? And that if they don't have the correct 'bits' or whatever, that they're trivializing your struggles? That really strikes me as an elitist attitude, saying that drag queens are all sexual fetishists that are somehow a step below you because they didn't get some kind of gender-altering surgery.

Gender-altering surgery is another thing that I've never bought into, I think there's no escaping the sex you were born into, and theres nothing wrong with that. But that would be getting off topic.

This makes me wonder what kind of person gets upset at someone cross-dressing, but apparently it's the same person who gets offended by a child's cartoon.

Did you not read my other posts? Context is everything. If you're dressing in the other gender's clothing just because you like doing it and all that? Fine. I don't mind that. To each their own. But if you're doing it to point a finger at me and laugh, and become the loud and flamboyant supposed "Face" of an entire group while carrying none of the stigma, then I'm going to be pissed.

To the layman, Drag Queens are often what they think of when they hear of the transgender community, and that idea is what I find obnoxious, because I've been ostracized for it. The people who think such a thing usually think that they are fetishistic people, and that generalization is often passed onto us, which hurts us and degrades our problems by making them more difficult to solve. Granted, It's more the fact that they mistakenly represent us to someone who is not well-versed in the sociological quandaries that bothers me than anything. It's like if all black people were represented by minstrel show performers: No matter how positive or negative they are, We'd much rather represent ourselves, and the fact that they've been mistaken for us on the grander scale is basically bad PR. It's not the performers themselves that bother me: it's their effect that bothers me.

Finally:

I think there's no escaping the sex you were born into

That's the root of the misconception right there. The sooner you change that view, the sooner you understand why they have inadvertently hurt people like me. Your genes may tell the system how you should be, but not how you will be. I am a deviation of that "rule" that you so strongly defend. And you know what? We've been around for a very long time. It's just now that we're taking to steps to solve it, and people like you make a fuss about it.