Dragon Age 2 Lead Writer Blasts Homophobic Fan

[mr.mystery]

I hope so tooo. but youve heard the new DLC is "unlike anything before it" you know what that means....

 

[SNIPERFOX ft. Harry P.Ness]

i actually had the same problem!
male characters were ALWAYS hitting on me, even though i was hitting on a chock that looked hot.
ijust wanted to kick the characters in the balls!
i think the game is a teeny bit *too*
homosexual
*i think the chick i was hitting on was isabela*

eeehmm....I'm not a master in the field of grammar but WHAT?

Anywho, I actually like the game because it's so diverse and that I can have sex with everything >.< Fun, fun!
P.s. That homophobic person says that "you can't lump every straight male gamer into one category", I tell you waht, he is! By saying that straight male gamers can't handle a bit of man on man flirting, nothing wrong with that!

yes, sorry for poor grammer, english is not my first language.
it's just, well, as a straight person, i find it disturbing while trying to hit on one chick, there's a whole que of men trying to hit on me. it's, erm, slightly disturbing. after turning donw one dude, 6 more pop up like wooden ducks at a firing range.
*yes, another SHITTY yahtzee quote.*

Is it maybe because you have inner conflicts on your sexuality?

nope. Im Russian.
anyway back on topic.

 

[The Stonker]

i actually had the same problem!
male characters were ALWAYS hitting on me, even though i was hitting on a chock that looked hot.
ijust wanted to kick the characters in the balls!
i think the game is a teeny bit *too*
homosexual
*i think the chick i was hitting on was isabela*

eeehmm....I'm not a master in the field of grammar but WHAT?

Anywho, I actually like the game because it's so diverse and that I can have sex with everything >.< Fun, fun!
P.s. That homophobic person says that "you can't lump every straight male gamer into one category", I tell you waht, he is! By saying that straight male gamers can't handle a bit of man on man flirting, nothing wrong with that!

yes, sorry for poor grammer, english is not my first language.
it's just, well, as a straight person, i find it disturbing while trying to hit on one chick, there's a whole que of men trying to hit on me. it's, erm, slightly disturbing. after turning donw one dude, 6 more pop up like wooden ducks at a firing range.
*yes, another SHITTY yahtzee quote.*

Is it maybe because you have inner conflicts on your sexuality?

nope. Im Russian.
anyway back on topic.

XD You made my day!

Well, the thing is that I think that DAO is trying to mimic how real life works out and lets face it, you will probably be hit on by guys in your life time, so just be flattered.

 

[Young Nasa]

Only character I had a problem with was Anders, as he kinda not likes you for a while if u don't flirt with him, cuz he hits on u first, thats kinda uncomfortable, if I want gay in my games, let me search for it, just don't make it pushy

 

[Young Nasa]

, there is no reason why you can't have a character who is obviously heterosexual and those people are going to realize your not interested.

>> can't have a character who is obviously heterosexual
>> character who is obviously heterosexual
>> obviously heterosexual

What? Are you serious right now? Pray tell, what exactly does someone who is "obviously heterosexual" sound and look like? Please elaborate. And if that's true, there must obviously be a way to tell "obviously heterosexuals" apart from "obviously homosexuals" right? This sounds pretty biggotted to me.

It's a lot of things. Simply put if you've ever hung out in the singles scene, or even just been around it, you can pick up on it.

To use a very stereotypical example of an intentional signal that's done consciously, which ear a guy wears an earring in is a way of declaring sexual orientation subtly. That way other guys know which way the guy doing it swings, or wants them to think they swing.

This can vary from area to area, subculture/culture to subculture/culture, and scene to scene, and these kinds of things do change.

A lot of it also has to do with body language as well.

See, in general a person isn't likely to make a pass at someone unless they are pretty sure they know what their sexual orientation is. Mistakes do happen, and nobody wants to be embarassed that way. Typically if your interested in someone in a bar or nightclub or whatever your going to keep an eye on them discretly to see if you can figure out if they
go your way or not (among other things). That's what signals are all about, with a person wanting to make it so other people of the same sort can determine what they are after, without putting themselves out to a ridiculous degree.


Setting a sexual orientation during character generation is a way of saying that anyone keeping an eye on your character with that kind of intent just isn't going to find any indication that you go that way. What's more being obviously heterosexual, means that your character might be seen to be checking out girls and so on (a good, unintentional signal for the most part). You keep an eye on people and you can tell a lot of this by where their eyes wander.

If you see some guy sitting at a bar scoping out other guys, or a girl scoping out other girls, well that's a good sign if your a homosexual. On the other hand if you see some dude and he's constantly glancing at the girls, or girls giggling and checking guys out, well then you know they are in all likelyhood straight.


Really, I shouldn't have to explain this to you, unless your very naive. Even if someone wants to make it look uncaring and spontaneous, very few people just come right out and make a play for someone they just saw 20 seconds ago without any cares at all for what they might think. By the numbers homosexuals are vastly outnumbered, and as such in mixed crowds they tend to be fairly careful, after all nobody wants to put themself out like that and be embarassed.

Well, it may just be me, but I don't think it's always that clear-cut. I am almost never able to tell someone's sexuality just by looking at them, and even when I do, it's more often than not a lucky guess.

I've had many a time where I thought someone was gay, only to find out they weren't after a bit of light flirting, and the other way around as well. And hell, personally I've had a number of people think I'm completely gay, and I actually like women more than men.

And sometimes when you like someone, even if they give off a lot of signals that they aren't into your gender, you can easily be blinded by it.

I think a better idea, instead of a "Heterosexual only" mode, would be conversation choices in-game that affected it in a similar way. For instance, if a male character hits on you, you could choose to hit on them back, say no to just them, or to state that you aren't attracted to men at all, and at that point other male characters could have over-heard the comment, or simply been told it, and they would cease to make passes at you. This would also allow for some interesting character depth, as they could add characters that still wanted to be with you, and didn't beleive what you said, and there wouldn't have to be the mistake of saying the wrong thing and ending up in bed with them, as the game would know by your conversation choice that your version of the PC is completely straight/gay.

That way, it's something built into the conversational system, and would both work, and not be seen as an "Anti-gay" Button by the more vocal members of the LGBT community.

On a Side Note, I would like to appologize for over-reacting to your initial statement, I just felt like it was going in a different, far more stereotypical direction. Classic internet mis-reading eh?

there is an obvious gay, and if u don't admit to that maybe ur just gay and taking up for it

 

[Xaositect]

Really?

What makes someone 'really' bisexual? Because I was under the impression that identifying as bisexual or being socially labelled as such for expressing attraction to members of both sexes was enough.

Also, who says you need to be bisexual to have sex with members of both sexes? Real life sexuality is full of exceptions.

What makes someone "really" bisexual is that its a part of their personal make-up. Its not a cheap compass that swings both ways so that developers can cop out on character development.

If the romances had wildly different paths depending on gender I could agree, but they dont. Even if they did, they idea that ALL of them had to bisexual is as stupid and offensive as having all of them as straight.

I like it to be something inherent to a characters nature, like Kelly Chambers in Mass Effect 2 (even though Im not overly keen of the characters or the game). Still, she tells you that she is ultimately a people person and, importantly in the case of her work, she gets in touch with their personalities. It feels more than just a cheap "two way fling".

Edit: It should be worth pointing out the rest of the game is extremely poor when it comes to same sex relations, more specifically to the male/male variety since there is still plenty of female/female so that immature morons (and in rare cases, insecure whiny lesbians) can enjoy.

If they had at least one true gay or lesbian relationship in ME2 though, I probably would have had nary a bad word to say about the game in regards to how it treats sexuality.

As it stands, Kelly stills feels cheap (the stupid dancing, urgh), but at least cheap but genuine because it stands on its own two feet.

DA2 feels bland and formulaic, and like I keep saying: lazy.

Maybe I'm not getting this.. what's wrong with the characters? How are they not faithful to themselves? They're made up human beings, not real people being forced at gunpoint to play a role which isn't them.

If Hawke is male, then Anders and Karl were lovers. That's a part of his backstory and character. Isabella would merrily have a 3 woman threesome in Origins, so that's part of her backstory. The only romancable characters who, as far as I'm aware, do not have their sexual history dealt with in game are Fenris and Merrill. Origins made it quite clear that Dalish culture doesn't do recreational sex at all, meaning that Merrill is already transgressive regardless of which gender Hawke she chooses to fuck. Which leaves only Fenris.

As the example of Zevran (who claims he prefers women, but whose upbringing has taught him to be flexible) shows, you don't always need to worry about whether someone is a 'real' bisexual. There are massive numbers of middle aged openly gay people who have ex-spouses and/or children. Does that mean they're not 'really' gay, or does it mean that people occasionally 'break the rules' in surprising ways?

Well aside from the character development being poor in the game anyway (which is becoming common in Bioware titles), its simple. The main reason for making all (isntead of some) of the romances bisexual isnt because THEY are, but because they want to cater to everyone at the cheapest cost. All it would take would have been one or two of the romances in the normal game to say "actually, Im afraid I dont swing that way", and the problem is solved immeasurably. Its a commitment to one path, and one character, instead of making them sexual chameleon who warp to the players gender choice so as to get the most of the (limited) content across to everyone.

To me, it would be more offensive to pretend that sexuality is utterly fixed and immutable and that noone ever does anything with the same sex unless they have a massive pulsing gay gene than it is to make the majority of companions open to romance regardless of your gender.

Sexuality in a great number of cases is UTTERLY fixed and immutable. Having NO characters in the vanilla game that reflect this isnt being "progressive", its being cheap and lazy. Gaider outlines and (pathetically IMO) tries to defend this cost cutting measure.

I think its crappy writing fundamentally.

I feel much better knowing Im shooting down a character who in genuinely gay or bisexual because its a part of the fabric of that character than doing so to a cheap character whos advances are only made because the cookie cutter characters are made to to be open to everyone for lazy reasons.

In DAO I could only imagine my character feeling flattered by Zevrans advances because he felt genuinely bisexual and interested in my character, even though I choose for the character to not reciprocate.

In DA2 it feels like they are only interested in Biowares Hawke character for cheap reasons that arent fundamentally about the character, because all the other romances are the same.

Is that clear enough?

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

snip

The important thing that everybody is missing when they quote statistical percentages of bisexuality/homosexuality: It is a single player game. It is about Hawke's story and what the player might want. The romance is accessible to whatever permutation YOU want when you're playing. It isn't about a queer quota so we arrive at a neat 10% of the population. It is about letting players roleplay the experience and have the story They want.

Some players will want to have a gay Anders love affair.
They can.
Some players will want to have hot lesbian action with Isabella.
They can.
Some players will want to have old fashioned straight sex with Anders.
They can.
Some will want to go the bishi route and gay up Fenris.
They can.
And so on.
The only real problem if any is honestly there (I don't care but I can see it) is that you can't fuck Aveline or gay up Sebastian. All in all, I don't care. I liked certain aspects of them but had no romantic interest in them at all.

This issue is never going to be about a realistic population of gays vs straights. That isn't the point of a game. It may have a place in a population sim for collecting data in some roundabout odd way but not in a game. The point of a rpg is to play the role you want and have the story you want so far as the game will allow. So why I can understand developers making decisions and saying certain characters are a certain way, Alistair and Morrigan as examples, I can also heavily support the idea of having them be open to either gender because it isn't about population based queer quotas/percentages, it is about entertainment and accessibility without nuking the plot.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Sexuality in a great number of cases is UTTERLY fixed and immutable. Having NO characters in the vanilla game that reflect this isnt being "progressive", its being cheap and lazy. Gaider outlines and (pathetically IMO) tries to defend this cost cutting measure.

I think I'm not explaining myself very well. Let me try again.

What I find strange in your approach is the assumption that someone's immutable and intrinsic sexuality would be visible in any other context except when sex or romance came up. Unless you adopt a very stereotypical (and highly offensive) view of what it means to be gay or bisexual how would the player be expected to tell? The game isn't a dating sim, the romantic and sexual lives of its characters are a small part of the overall experience. What would actually be different about the narrative if, say, Fenris was straight other than one additional line of dialogue where he told you to fuck off if you hit on him as a male?

As for changing depending on circumstances.. is that a problem? If you play a mage you get different responses compared to playing a warrior. You may as well argue that regardless of class Bethany and Carver would have been standing in exactly the same position during the ogre fight so it's just lazy that the same one didn't die every time.. why is this more important?

As for 'everyone loves Hawke for inexplicable reasons'. Well, one, they don't. Even discounting that there are non-romancable characters and one explicitly hetero character in the DLC, there are also vast number of non-companion NPCs in the game who never display any hint of attraction to Hawke. I know that justification sounds weak at first glance, but one of the most interesting things about DA2 is that the companions aren't there because they want to help you slay the evil space dragon and save the world, they're there because they like your character, be it friendship-style-liking or rivalry-style-liking. So rather than assuming that the in-game logic can only follow the metagame logic, that the companions are attracted to you because they're in your party, why not go the other way around and consider that perhaps they stick around partly (or wholey) because they're drawn to your character, be it a social bond, a sexual bond or something profoundly ambiguous and in-between. Because for once in the history of roleplaying games it makes sense to do that with this one.

I also wonder if part of your problem comes down to the numbers game, i.e. 'relatively few people are bi in real life, so it makes no sense to have 4 important characters in this game be written as effectively bi or hetero/homoflexible'. Well, firstly, what is the proportion of men to women? What is the proportion of women with skinny waists and massive tits to women with other body shapes? Gaming has never been representative, and just because the normative fantasies of people who aren't white hetero males are being catered to doesn't mean you can suddenly start bringing in the numbers game. Most white hetero males were perfectly happy to ignore the numbers when it resulted in the daily dose of strong, identifiable male protagonists and plentiful T&A on show, and now suddenly it's just not realistic?

 

[NeoGuardian86]

snip

The important thing that everybody is missing when they quote statistical percentages of bisexuality/homosexuality: It is a single player game. It is about Hawke's story and what the player might want. The romance is accessible to whatever permutation YOU want when you're playing. It isn't about a queer quota so we arrive at a neat 10% of the population. It is about letting players roleplay the experience and have the story They want.

Some players will want to have a gay Anders love affair.
They can.
Some players will want to have hot lesbian action with Isabella.
They can.
Some players will want to have old fashioned straight sex with Anders.
They can.
Some will want to go the bishi route and gay up Fenris.
They can.
And so on.
The only real problem if any is honestly there (I don't care but I can see it) is that you can't fuck Aveline or gay up Sebastian. All in all, I don't care. I liked certain aspects of them but had no romantic interest in them at all.

This issue is never going to be about a realistic population of gays vs straights. That isn't the point of a game. It may have a place in a population sim for collecting data in some roundabout odd way but not in a game. The point of a rpg is to play the role you want and have the story you want so far as the game will allow. So why I can understand developers making decisions and saying certain characters are a certain way, Alistair and Morrigan as examples, I can also heavily support the idea of having them be open to either gender because it isn't about population based queer quotas/percentages, it is about entertainment and accessibility without nuking the plot.

Granted i did mention in my original post I see where they were going with it, and i don't have a huge problem with it, doesn't ruin the game for me. I merely air on what i was explaining, but not for the reasons that the OP made on the Bioware forums. Nor really for purely selfish reasons either. Just a preference that i see is human interaction grounded in some realism - from where i stand. On some levels i agree with Xaositect who posted a reply to another poster on the same matter.

But like i said, i know and understand why they do it, and in a certain perspective very commendable, but from my perspective having ALL of them that way felt sort of cheap to me.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

snip

The important thing that everybody is missing when they quote statistical percentages of bisexuality/homosexuality: It is a single player game. It is about Hawke's story and what the player might want. The romance is accessible to whatever permutation YOU want when you're playing. It isn't about a queer quota so we arrive at a neat 10% of the population. It is about letting players roleplay the experience and have the story They want.

Some players will want to have a gay Anders love affair.
They can.
Some players will want to have hot lesbian action with Isabella.
They can.
Some players will want to have old fashioned straight sex with Anders.
They can.
Some will want to go the bishi route and gay up Fenris.
They can.
And so on.
The only real problem if any is honestly there (I don't care but I can see it) is that you can't fuck Aveline or gay up Sebastian. All in all, I don't care. I liked certain aspects of them but had no romantic interest in them at all.

This issue is never going to be about a realistic population of gays vs straights. That isn't the point of a game. It may have a place in a population sim for collecting data in some roundabout odd way but not in a game. The point of a rpg is to play the role you want and have the story you want so far as the game will allow. So why I can understand developers making decisions and saying certain characters are a certain way, Alistair and Morrigan as examples, I can also heavily support the idea of having them be open to either gender because it isn't about population based queer quotas/percentages, it is about entertainment and accessibility without nuking the plot.

Granted i did mention in my original post I see where they were going with it, and i don't have a huge problem with it, doesn't ruin the game for me. I merely air on what i was explaining, but not for the reasons that the OP made on the Bioware forums. Nor really for purely selfish reasons either. Just a preference that i see is human interaction grounded in some realism - from where i stand. On some levels i agree with Xaositect who posted a reply to another poster on the same matter.

But like i said, i know and understand why they do it, and in a certain perspective very commendable, but from my perspective having ALL of them that way felt sort of cheap to me.

Considering that it made for extra work to make that many NPCs available to both genders, I honestly don't agree with the word cheap. It would have been easier to just lay down the dev hammer and limit gender attraction but instead, they pushed their voice actors and developer gnomes to make the majority of the NPCs available.

Doesn't sound cheap to me at all, sounds... Accessible. Inclusive. Extra work.

 

[Angelicatt]

It comes down to a matter of choice and preference on the player's part. No one said he had to pursue a gay romance - the broken-hearted or aggressive icons and dialog are there for a reason.

Seriously people, it's a game - you knew this was coming after playing DA:Origins. If you had issues with it then, then don't play the game. Leave it for more open-minded players.

 

[NeoGuardian86]

snip

The important thing that everybody is missing when they quote statistical percentages of bisexuality/homosexuality: It is a single player game. It is about Hawke's story and what the player might want. The romance is accessible to whatever permutation YOU want when you're playing. It isn't about a queer quota so we arrive at a neat 10% of the population. It is about letting players roleplay the experience and have the story They want.

Some players will want to have a gay Anders love affair.
They can.
Some players will want to have hot lesbian action with Isabella.
They can.
Some players will want to have old fashioned straight sex with Anders.
They can.
Some will want to go the bishi route and gay up Fenris.
They can.
And so on.
The only real problem if any is honestly there (I don't care but I can see it) is that you can't fuck Aveline or gay up Sebastian. All in all, I don't care. I liked certain aspects of them but had no romantic interest in them at all.

This issue is never going to be about a realistic population of gays vs straights. That isn't the point of a game. It may have a place in a population sim for collecting data in some roundabout odd way but not in a game. The point of a rpg is to play the role you want and have the story you want so far as the game will allow. So why I can understand developers making decisions and saying certain characters are a certain way, Alistair and Morrigan as examples, I can also heavily support the idea of having them be open to either gender because it isn't about population based queer quotas/percentages, it is about entertainment and accessibility without nuking the plot.

Granted i did mention in my original post I see where they were going with it, and i don't have a huge problem with it, doesn't ruin the game for me. I merely air on what i was explaining, but not for the reasons that the OP made on the Bioware forums. Nor really for purely selfish reasons either. Just a preference that i see is human interaction grounded in some realism - from where i stand. On some levels i agree with Xaositect who posted a reply to another poster on the same matter.

But like i said, i know and understand why they do it, and in a certain perspective very commendable, but from my perspective having ALL of them that way felt sort of cheap to me.

Considering that it made for extra work to make that many NPCs available to both genders, I honestly don't agree with the word cheap. It would have been easier to just lay down the dev hammer and limit gender attraction but instead, they pushed their voice actors and developer gnomes to make the majority of the NPCs available.

Doesn't sound cheap to me at all, sounds... Accessible. Inclusive. Extra work.

I mean lazy in the sense that it comes off to me as mere pandering and fan service. Don't take me wrong, I do NOT like stereotypical oversexed females (though Chun Li is the one and only exception for some reason with me and my lizard part of my brain) or the overly strong woman trying to match the men (in military games when they show up).

That extra work doesn't have any evolution really. In fact, despite the fact that i loved Merrill and have seen (not playing the game 8 times to see how all the romances go), none of the romances are particularly strong. They carry themselves mostly on their character, they're sexuality not an issue (when for some people it is). They all just seem to swing the other way depending on what default gender the player picked. All the LI's are essentially blank slates, and i was hoping to see a dark line with some of them.
Even if one of them was just straight up not straight was simply gay/lesbian/else i'd of been cool with that as well. I'm saying EVEN if i - as a straight male - was not included for one of the LI's would be cool with it. Why? because it would be one of the very rare times when an NPC was simply out-there gay/lesbian/else, That'd of been very interesting twist to it.

Even an evolution perhaps in an NPC changing their sexuality i would of greeted well - with intrigue that a game was even doing that. Shows that the medium could grow as an interactive art form.

That's what i mean by lazy.

All that you said is true though, the bit of extra work is nice, but like i said before though.

Is it so wrong to ask for developers to rather then just go the All are BI, to actually make a good decent straight/gay/bi/lesbian only character? or is that crossing some sort of line?

 

[Xaositect]

I think I'm not explaining myself very well. Let me try again.

What I find strange in your approach is the assumption that someone's immutable and intrinsic sexuality would be visible in any other context except when sex or romance came up. Unless you adopt a very stereotypical (and highly offensive) view of what it means to be gay or bisexual how would the player be expected to tell? The game isn't a dating sim, the romantic and sexual lives of its characters are a small part of the overall experience. What would actually be different about the narrative if, say, Fenris was straight other than one additional line of dialogue where he told you to fuck off if you hit on him as a male?

No I dont think its your lack of explaining things well, I just think you obviously just agree with Bioware that that kind of shitty writing is acceptable. Clearly Bioware agrees with you that a romance is a fluff piece of optional content and not (like it used to be) a hugely important part of the character and how they develop, because otherwise it becomes a "dating sim".

I have a problem with the flippant nature of how characters have just been slapped with this whole "open to any player" mentality. Its not bisexuality from a character standpoint, its cheap and lazy "get all the content to everyone" kind of thing. I think that sucks and is a shitty way to write something so important characters as romances. Its not getting any clearer than that.

As for changing depending on circumstances.. is that a problem? If you play a mage you get different responses compared to playing a warrior. You may as well argue that regardless of class Bethany and Carver would have been standing in exactly the same position during the ogre fight so it's just lazy that the same one didn't die every time.. why is this more important?

Because writing characters requires a whole different approach to combat. The fact that youre comparing it to having a mage in your party is pretty fucking telling.

As for 'everyone loves Hawke for inexplicable reasons'. Well, one, they don't. Even discounting that there are non-romancable characters and one explicitly hetero character in the DLC, there are also vast number of non-companion NPCs in the game who never display any hint of attraction to Hawke. I know that justification sounds weak at first glance, but one of the most interesting things about DA2 is that the companions aren't there because they want to help you slay the evil space dragon and save the world, they're there because they like your character, be it friendship-style-liking or rivalry-style-liking. So rather than assuming that the in-game logic can only follow the metagame logic, that the companions are attracted to you because they're in your party, why not go the other way around and consider that perhaps they stick around partly (or wholey) because they're drawn to your character, be it a social bond, a sexual bond or something profoundly ambiguous and in-between. Because for once in the history of roleplaying games it makes sense to do that with this one.

Im currently ignoring the cheap ass money grubbing piece of shit DLC for what it is, and therefore leave it out of the discussion. I mainly focus on what the game offers you for what you pay for, not what Bioware are trying to shill you with after youve already paid for it.

But again, you seem to rather flippantly lump the romances in with the other characters. I am aware that other characters display openly heterosexual preferences for instance. Like Aveline, she has an entire quest based around it. Shes not romanceable though, so its not the point.

The fact that romances are optional content for characters means I hold them as seperate and to higher standard. Not just toss them in with the rest.

On top of this, you have to take in to account Biowares new style of anti-roleplaying where they remove to choice and lumber you with pre-defined characters they have created means their decisions take an even greater weight. If it was the older, more "blank-slate" style character that offers vastly more freedom that offers a lot more wiggle room, Id probably have a different approach to this.

I also wonder if part of your problem comes down to the numbers game, i.e. 'relatively few people are bi in real life, so it makes no sense to have 4 important characters in this game be written as effectively bi or hetero/homoflexible'. Well, firstly, what is the proportion of men to women? What is the proportion of women with skinny waists and massive tits to women with other body shapes? Gaming has never been representative, and just because the normative fantasies of people who aren't white hetero males are being catered to doesn't mean you can suddenly start bringing in the numbers game. Most white hetero males were perfectly happy to ignore the numbers when it resulted in the daily dose of strong, identifiable male protagonists and plentiful T&A on show, and now suddenly it's just not realistic?

Right, since youve decided to fall back on the fucking fabricated prejudice card, I think were done here.

For good measure Ill make my point one more time:

Casually slapping all the characters as "bisexual" so as to be open to every player was not a "noble" move. It was lazy, shoddy character work and I have a hard time even viewing these characters as "bisexual" because of it. David Gaider clearly knows this will be a reaction from some, as he highlights the "cost cutting" nature of making the characters so "flexible".

I dont like it. In a time when video game romances already struggle to not be shit, I dont think its too much to ask that they be clear about what they are doing, define these characters properly and write them with that in mind.

I think its clear that in DA2 from my own experiences that, while some could have been written as above and still not change (Isabela for example), as an entity the Dragon Age 2 romances were cheaply made to "swing both ways" for reasons other than simply being faithful to the characters above all else.

Im really having trouble making it any clearer than that, so you can either accept it and move on, or continue this ridiculous routine of fabricating things over and over. Although since youve already implied I dont think bisexuals should be the only romance options in the game because there arent enough of them in real life, I dont think its going to get any more fucking ridiculous than that, so its best left alone.

I know that Im not the only one who thinks an entire cast of "romance go betweens" was a lazy move however, I know that for sure.

 

[scones_better]

Seeing the even bigger popularity of DND and MMO like WOW, it's not that much of a gamble to pull a Tradtional RPG. Sure they are doing it on a massive scale (some will argue that the quality is not present though). Players have plenty of trad RPG options (nowhere near as shooters mind you), now one that is LGBT friendly? That's a different story. And that's a big part of why they would do it.

Also I really don't agree that 10% is generous. In fact I find that more and more people are sexually fluid and gender fluid. Like you said it does ned a much bigger, better survey. Not to mention there's the whole issue of people not labeling themselves either. For exemple people would consider me a lesbian, but I consider myself queer if i label myself at all. I am married to a woman, am attracted to women, but I occasionally am attracted to men and the in between. Gay/Lesbian VS Straight is just not accurate anymore for most people.

You also assume that all straight male, like you or the OP would never play the game as anything else but a straight male character. Of both personal experience and from the post that is simply not true. Many straight guys will play a female and some will play as guy who are bi/gay regardless of their own orientation if they like who that means they'll get to romance.

Also hmm sorry but i don't think the ROMANCE aspect of Draong Age II is SUCH a big % of the game. How is the spending so disproportionate in the game? It's a RPG about quest, saving people and killing monster. Don't get me wrong, I love it. But to say that developing money was spent disproportionally is inaccurate. Not to mention, straight guys get about as much choice in the romance department as other groups. They are two females that bi. They are two guys that are bi. There is one guy who will only go for a female main character. I don't think that that's disproportionate. And let's be honest, there could be all straight women for straight male gamer, and someone would still find something to complain about them. Like I said, it's a game about slaying dragon and helping (or not) a world. Turn any of the guy that might hit on you down and move on, and go slay.

On side note: I totally think they are awesome just to be clear. They could have taken the money and said sorry but they are standing their ground and being refreshingly mature and open minded about the whole thing. They win big time in my mind.

One minor edit: even if it turns out it's just 5%, i still don't see why we should ignore any group. Race/religion/sexual orientation. Especially in 2011 when those things are being brought up more and more everywhere.

More competitive economic environment? We're in a recession!

Not a whole lot of companies make traditional triple-A RPG video games anymore. So recession or no recession, if you want to play these games either you take what is given to you or you face the prospect of waiting even longer periods between game releases.

More competitive economic Maybe Mr Gaider as good numbers, I would love to see them too, but let's pretend he doesn't: the generally accepted statistic is that 1 in 10 people in North America is gay.

Just because something is often repeated doesn't make it true, the existing evidence [http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED457285&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED457285existing ] points towards a much lower figure of somewhere between 4%-5%. Now with the absence of good solid census data that percentage probably isn't completely accurate but I think that it's quite safe to say that doubling it at it's most generous would be a bit of stretch.

And yes a lot of LGBT gamers will still play the game if it caters mainly to straight people, but I'm sure the company would rather take the extra risk if in mean getting attention and interest from other gamers whom might pass the game for that very reason. As much as I can appreciate the idea that this is done out altruism, I have no doubt that money is also a big factor.

Now I don't think you are giving the folks over at Bioware enough credit. They're making a stand on their principles and while I can appreciate that as much as the next person, it doesn't change the fact that if a disproportionate amount of development dollars is being spent on an fringe audience then that would mean that the majority is not getting value for money. If they have evidence to the contrary then they ought to settle the matter by making it public.

 

[Connor Voskamp]

he sounds like one of the noobs who play and then make a save before the romance, grab a whole lot of lube, and start re-loading his saves. besides if he realy hates the gays in the game then he should tell them to f*** off. or just skip the scene. YOU CAN SKIP THE CUT SCENE!!!!!

 

[Desert Tiger]

Eh, mostly my characters are all like "Romance? Fuck that. Fuck you all. You don't DESERVE me."

 

[MaxwellEdison]

I can't wait until that poster gets hit on by men in real life. "STOP IT! YOU'RE NOT PANDERING TO MY HETEROSEXUALITY ENOUGH!"

 

[pwnzerstick]

Ok, well I'm a straight male, I don't know about anybody else, but If I'm playing an RPG with romantic choices, then I try and play them out in a variety of ways. Also, the first playthrough may not even be played as a straight male.
The guy's post was assuming that everyone plays their own gender and sexuality in the game, which is simply not true.

 

[ark123]

The kind of person that would be offended is the kind of person that would punch a gay guy for hitting on them instead of saying "I'm not gay, thanks", and we don't need those people around.

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

Spoiler

Anders was sorta weird in Awakening I half expected him to be gay.He actually admits he was raeped by templars in one of the dialogues.

I find it kinda funny that the dev is called Gaider and is defending homosexual relationships in his product.Just me?

Oh and why are people complaining about rivalry points?I never had a problem turning down a relationship without gaining rivalry...if i don't want it of course .Just let the whole thing fly over your head during the conversation and don't give a deffinite answer since most of the important romance was near Act 2 by that time the whole team usually knew who I was romancing.

Oh and I salute Bioware for fleshing out their characters.I've met people that remind me of most of the characters in both games.Sadly not Merrill