dragon age 2 whats with all the hate?

[BloatedGuppy]

95% of hatred for DA2 can be summed up by this well worn PA comic:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/9/6/

In short, everyone who hates the game will have a list of 95 reasons why they hate the game, all but 1-2 of which will be extraordinarily subjective, many of which will run along the lines of "I expected X and got Y instead". Many will fail to recognize the near infinite number of ways it is similar to past Bioware titles, and instead focus in on the handful of stylistic differences that separate it from DA:O, as though those differences separate A+ games from utter catastrophic failures. Most will then go on to claim their opinions are fact, as though graven on a stone tablet handed down to them by a benevolent God, and will stridently insist over and over that A) Their Opinion is The Truth and B) They Speak for All PC Gamers and/or TRUE RPG FANS.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

now first off i did a search for this and found many simmular topics but none like this.

ok now on to my point im makeing this thread to find out why so many people hate dragon age 2.
I have guide lines though. first and formost if you disliked the game give reasons and i mean more then the simple they changed every thing cause that wont work here.(oh and if you liked the game and wish to defend it the same rules apply tell everyone what you liked about it

Now i will give you my personal opinoin on the game i love it on my 4th play through. the combat is alot better and fluid then the first game and as is the new rivilry/friend system.(no more morigan disaproves what i dis liked about the game though is whant most people will point out as why they hate it. The ending was a bit lacking for me not enoth to spoil the game for me but it was a bit anti-climactic. the game in my opinion is far from perfect but the good outweighs the bad.

So what did you find good or bad about the game?

BTW please be civil with people of differing opinions

That touted "more personal" story Bioware was so proud of was not that good. You have no defined goal (a bad idea in a game because the player doesn't have motivation), no real choices in the game (Killer quests always ends the same way, you fight the same two final bosses no matter what), and the Third Act is terribly written (play as a pro-mage).

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

I hated Dragon Age Origins for a long list of reasons. Based on the demo and reviews DA 2 isnt much better. So I would probably hate it too but I don?t because I have only played the demo. I just doubt that I would like it. The demo was joke. No way would I want to buy it after that and Origins.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

To add to the list of things pros and cons ( despite some of it been mentioned ) here goes in no particular order:
1. Copy paste dungeons/houses. Paths and doors being blocked is the only deviate. For some this is not a major thing, but for me this is a massive problem. Im an old Baldurs gate fan (played them all) and the discovery of new places and have that "What the hell of all sinister things is going on here" feeling is so painly missing after the 3rd dungeon. Its the "ive been here before feeling" that jives me, and i just know that when i open this door stuff will happen, and most likely in the form of angry things wanting to hit me.

2. Everyone explodes upon death. Yesterday i found a dagger with the special ability to have "more messy kills" and i thought to my self "How is that even possible. Is the dagger it self going to spray blood or what?" I soorly miss the little finesse kills in DA:O. I remember my first dragon kill in DA:O and when it was just about to die and my warrior jumped up on its neck and stabbed it in slow motion. That was freaking awsome. Now everyone just whirls around in a massive bloodshow.

3. Enemies popping out of nowhere in the middle of a fight. If this was just sometimes it would be ok because you can imagine that thieves would have this kind of ambush set up. But when everyone and your grandmother with dinner ambushes you in this kind of manner it just gets old. I think its a way to cover for very stinking bad AI. Try this: Find one of those "gang" ambushes and agro them. Now run away and behind a corner. Now EVERY SINGLE ONE of them will come after you, turn the corner and just stand there. Be they melee, archer , mage or grandmother in a tight mob ready to be face melted!?...? What is this? Starcraft 1 AI? 10->spawn zerglings 20-> attack player 30-> goto 10 ??? It destroys any form of tactical thinking because EVERY SINGEL DAMN FIGHT is going to be the exact same. ->warrior/s charge first mob and everyone else stays close to them OR funnel everyone outside spawn if fight is to hard. Then proceed to AE everything that moves. Then X fingers that an assassin wont spawn his dagger in your mages ass unless you funneled your way through the fight. The fact that Bioware knows that the funnel tactic makes fools of the AI is evident in the way that when supposed "hard" fights are scripted, odd "magical" doors appears out of nowhere and stops your retreat and dissappers when the last mob/boss is dead.

I remember in baldurs gate 2 right when you exit your captors dungeon theres a tavern with an unfrendly adventure party on the first floor. If you choose to battle them you really had to think of what you did and what you cast. AND the funnel tactic did NOT work. They actually stayd back. And to note they were only 5 people.... not a bizillion swarm generics. I miss those times when less was more. And more distinct.

3. "Heres your whatsamathing you lost and i found it by dumbfound luck.... and i dont care because i didnt actually see that i picked it up and i thought you had a quest for me because of the thing over your head" types of "side" quests. The only way these sidequests could be more "side" are by having them trigger and dispense XP and gold just by walking over a coded trigger plate... What bioware? are sidequests not supposed to have compelling stories anymore?

4. Dragons.... dragons everywhere... I thought dragons were supposed to be the ulimate bad guys and not just random generic goldmine mobsters?

5. Kirkwall doesnt change very much even tho many years pass. As one wrote , for the love of god just rearrange npcs or something! For me its a chore just to think about having to traverse the same idiotic long way from high towns longest away exit to the merchants, who seem to be set in cement.

6. Everyone wades through raw lyrium and darkspawn blood.... i thought those were deadly to others other than dwarves and greywardens... but then again your non-grey companions from DA:O didnt seem to mind gallons of darkspawn blood sprayed directly in the face... so what the hey...

7. Why should i care for Kirkwall. The protagonist doesnt even want to be there in the first place let alone those who travel with him. If i went to the deaproads and came back wealthy, first thing id do were to go back to my homeland and tidy things up. Not to stay in a slavers made dungheap of a town. If any you are made to hate Kirkwall from the getgo as player. If the place exploded in a gory bloodfest it would count as community service and i couldnt care less.

8. Freaking dragons everywhere.!

9. Spells... Everything is mostly damage... wheres the support skills that "support" but not so drastical that it is all you do? Like the mages AE slow spell from the force mage line that last for ever and slows the more the enemy is in the spells center? Ever tried to smack one of those dead center on a pile of mobs? They just stand there and do nothing, because dead center seems to be -100% slow or so close it doesnt matter. Id like to have more like the sleep spell that is not to powerfull and have both advantages and disadvantages (like after you sleep the enemy you cant AE them to shit because then they wake up, but it makes the fight more in your favour) Not just one stop everything and then nuke them to bits choice. AND cross class comboes is ------NOT------ +100000% damage bacause you used a spell/skill you probably would have used anyway. Cross class comboes should be about thinking of what you are doing besides spamming your brittle/stagger spell/skill whenever two or more enemies stands together and hugs. More like this...(weak example but bare with me) mage shoots cone of frost. It not just freezes the enemies but also freezes the ground so it is icy. The warrior is blocking the way and when an enemy gets to close you can have the choice to have shieldbash make the enemy glide away on the ice after they are knocked silly. This takes focus away from damage over to positioning wich is a so much more flexible thing to work with. Maybe the thief had caltrops at the end of that ice so people take that damage and conditon twice.

10. Im a mage and everyone tells me to be carefull and whatnot but here i just conjured lightning, fire, brimstone and your dead grandmother out of thin air right in the middle of the stockades and the templars only response to that is "Hello guard commander Avelin" I suppose everything goes if you sport the right possé.

11. Why is normal difficulty made so i can blast my self and anyone friendly with fireballs and whatnot without them taking damage? If im not mistaking normal dif. in DA:O had your face melted for doing that. If thats not the definition of "dumbing down" i dont know what. Bioware must be thinking that the target audience cant be bothered about thinking before blasting away anymore.

12. Why is Kirkwall still full with refugees complaining and not doing anything even after it is announced that the blight is over? And why the F´ck is ferealden refugee center, where i donated a shitload of gold, suddenly an armor shop and noone seems to mind the total ripoff of their donations?

13. TOO MUUCH COOMBAT!!! This isnt an rpg! This is a textbook hack and slash with fancy voice acting!

14. Pointless loot.... why am i presented with so much loot without function? Why is that loot there at all and is not just gold? It has no weight, no backstory and absolutely no meaning. I mean besides the very very secret bloodmage books scattered around which also gets tossed in the junk pile and you just sell off like simple toilet paper, if you choose to pick them up and read them. I suppose knowledge SHOULD be for everyone.

I could go on but this is getting abit long...
Regards.....

See some of this stuff was in Origins.

This is from a post where I explain what Bioware started dumbing down since KOTOR

It started with KOTOR.

Smaller parties
Cant attack civilians
Cant flee combat as a party to set ambushes or use gorilla tactics
Unified inventories
Smaller areas
No death for party members
Limited day/night cycles

No point and click movement.

I still liked KOTOR

Ok so here is DA:O that is supposed to be the spiritual predecessor of BG. So did it address any of that? Nooooo it was far worse than KOTOR

Ok I think we gained one party member but then we get
auto healing
Level scaling that is worse than KOTOR's. You dont improve in relation to the world when you level.
A ridiculous stat system that is even more hit point weighted than D&D
And less exploration
Gimped ranged weapons
Insane amount of worthless filler combat



OK so one bad Bioware game. Nice track record. What do we get from DA 2?

Removed friendly fire except on nightmare
What?? I like using messed up parties. I roleplay I don't powergame. I might bump it to hard but nightmare should be too hard for someone who likes to create their own challenge by using poor party combinations. The difficulty was fine in DA:O. It was one of the few things they got right. I don't know much about DA 2. I like the way the story is told but removing friendly fire is major. Bombing your own tanks is a mindless strategy.

They removed certain crafting (maybe all I dont know).
you never miss or as it seems almost never ever miss (or have an enemy dodge your attack)

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

Things I like about it:

Remodelling, I though this was a step forward
New combat system
Rivalry system
Character specific specialisations
Epic story and music

Things I don't

Hawke felt a little bland compared to some of the other characters. More could have been done with specializations etc.
Story only makes sense at the end (in fact it feels more like a bunch of little stories).
Final boss music was lacking.
Re used dungeons

 

[DustyDrB]

The hate has kind of died down as people have actually played it. I think opinions have sort of reached a middle.

Don't delude yourself. It's died out because people got bored of it.

OP, the vast majority of the hate was there was precisely because the game was really rushed out and showed many signs of a complete cash in, these are not minor gripes to just be brushed aside.

Well, it's still high up on the top games for the Escapist. So people must not be too bored of it. But I want the problems in Dragon Age II fixed as much as anyone does, but those things didn't stop me from enjoying the game.

But I'll agree with you. The repeated environments are a bummer and there's no denying that. How much that ruins the experience varies from person to person, though. I can look past it, but I won't defend it. It's a flat-out terrible design decision and/or sign or a rush job.

The companion armor thing is something that I can understand them doing (wanting characters to keep their unique look). I don't really like it, and I think they could have let us change their armor without it visibly changing. RPG players love customization, and they have to know that. But again, this isn't a game-breaker for me. I spent a ton of time changing everyone's weapons, belts, rings, amulets, and Hawke's armor. The star system makes it so you constantly need to make sure you're not falling behind with inferior armor.

I've heard complaints also about missions where you just return an item to someone and get some gold. This was in Origins, though. That's what most of the chanter's board/Blackstone Irregulars/Mage's collective quests were.

I could go on, but the thing that matters is this: this is a divisive game and I think it's easy to see why. I just don't like how contentious people are about it. Many of those who hate it treat those who like it like we're just dim-witted simpletons. And many of us who do like it treat those who hate it like they are just trolls or elitists, and give them the "haters gonna hate" treatment. Neither side is giving the other much incentive for real discussion. I think we can do better than that.

 

[Apollo45]

I honestly didn't like the game. Some parts they did well, for sure, but enough of it was dull/boring/recycled/broken that it ended up ruining the game for me.

What I disliked included, but is not limited to;
-Shallow characters: By the end of DA:O (and every other Bioware game) I know my companions like I know my best friends. After 10 years in DA2, Hawke barely even knew his friends. Except for Aveline, they were all horribly one (maybe two)-dimensional and defined by what they were, not who they were.
-Recycled Dungeons: Enough said.
-Kirkwall: The city was dull, and everything except for Hightown felt like it was expanded off of Lowtown, making the whole thing feel extremely small. And absolutely nothing changed over the course of ten years, right down to the people wandering the streets.
-Graphics were improved in some areas, but overall were quite mediocre for what they should have been.
-It felt like it was ported from console to the PC, not developed equally across all fronts.
-The combat in general; sure, it looked pretty, but the waves of enemies ruined most tactical plans, and the individual enemies were squishy as hell. I'd much rather fight five tough baddies than five hundred Stormtroopers.
-It was short; I finished in 25 hours on Hard. And there's virtually no replay value since...
-Your decisions don't matter. No matter what you say or do, it feels like the only thing it affects is whether or not your character is a goody two shoes, a dick, or a clown, and whether your companions are your 'friends' or 'rivals'. Say whatever you wanted to and the end result to most everything ended up being the same.

So, IMO, it was a pretty poorly made game. Good ideas, bad execution.

 

[Free Thinker]

I generally loved it, but here's what I didn't like:

Copy paste dungeons and caves

Very buggy (I don't recall encountering one bug in 60 + hours of DA:O)

City starts to look samey after 40+ hours

Some of the characters weren't as storng as Wynne, Morrigan, Sten, Oghren ect...

Ugly character models

Endless waves of combat got boring

Stupid story developments at points

Basically the same. Endless combat waves made it less than satisfying for me. DA:O had a "sweet spot" for spawns and amount of enemies that allowed you a perfect time for planning. One of my issues was the graphics. DA:O wasn't a work of Leonardo Da Vinci, but it made up in story and gameplay. DA2 has slightly upgraded the graphics, but it isn't as colorful or shiny as Mass Effect 2 which came out earlier. I'm no developer or designer, that's just my thought process. A personal grievance was that every companion basically hated each other. Nothing wrong with that, but when you are someone like me who wants to keep everyone happy, shit hits the fan quite quickly. Honestly, the only way I see this game getting better, is with DLC, which we all know, will not be free.

 

[Bostur]

My condensed honest opinion is that it seems like a budget clone of the original, that manages to destroy most of what was good in the original, without actually adding anything new.

Its hard to find any positives about DA2, trying really hard I can mention a few:
- The new design of health/mana/stamina bars is a novel and useful approach.
- Specialized companion talent trees is a cool new feature.
- Theres some visual improvements to combat, most notably that characters move around the battlefield in a nicer looking way (less shuffling)
- Dialogues/cutscenes are ok, or would be if they were part of a storyline.

Pretty much everything else got ruined, in some cases making the game feel almost physically unplayable, or simply just dull.

I could list the usual 50 bullet list of areas where it fails, but it has been done so many times.

 

[ecoho]

yes im sad that i got to play a great game and you got a bad port and ill admit they kinda slacked off in that regarde but dont dam us, bioware, or the game because it doesnt cater to your minority.

Yes people should? Either you make a good game/port or you don't? Why shouldn't someone trash the game if the game in question is badly ported? Why shouldn't some dam a company if the company has done a bad job?

In your post you said everything that needed to be said - DA2 is a good console game, but it falls short on the PC, isn't that reason good enough for people to bash it?

im sorry that doesnt look right now that ive reread it you are right peeople have every right to point out what is wrong with a game that got badly ported. that post was mostly intended for the zealot who seams to think console gameing is a sin and not to be taken as i sign that i dont care about the pc gamers. I truely wish they would have done more for pc gamers in this game but your cause is not helped by people like that. It just insaults those of us who dont have the money to own gameing computers. To each their own.

 

[Fake Nicker]

See some of this stuff was in Origins.

This is from a post where I explain what Bioware started dumbing down since KOTOR

It started with KOTOR.

Smaller parties
Cant attack civilians
Cant flee combat as a party to set ambushes or use gorilla tactics
Unified inventories
Smaller areas
No death for party members
Limited day/night cycles

No point and click movement.

I still liked KOTOR

Ok so here is DA:O that is supposed to be the spiritual predecessor of BG. So did it address any of that? Nooooo it was far worse than KOTOR

Ok I think we gained one party member but then we get
auto healing
Level scaling that is worse than KOTOR's. You dont improve in relation to the world when you level.
A ridiculous stat system that is even more hit point weighted than D&D
And less exploration
Gimped ranged weapons
Insane amount of worthless filler combat



OK so one bad Bioware game. Nice track record. What do we get from DA 2?

Removed friendly fire except on nightmare
What?? I like using messed up parties. I roleplay I don't powergame. I might bump it to hard but nightmare should be too hard for someone who likes to create their own challenge by using poor party combinations. The difficulty was fine in DA:O. It was one of the few things they got right. I don't know much about DA 2. I like the way the story is told but removing friendly fire is major. Bombing your own tanks is a mindless strategy.

They removed certain crafting (maybe all I dont know).
you never miss or as it seems almost never ever miss (or have an enemy dodge your attack)

YES! to the "no attacking civilians" (and all the rest) I miss the ability, how ever useless the function there off, to kill whom ever i want. Its about choice. Even if that choice is just an illusion it helps to feel more free. In baldurs gate i knew i could go mental on everyone and have the magicpolice come down on me. Sometimes i did go postal but it allways ended with a reload because it kinda broke the game. But the choice was there to blurr the feeling of a oneway corridor. DA2 feels like im everyones goddamn messenger boy and that the world is standing absolutely still outside of you little sphere of space.

And "tank bombing" just destroys my injoyment of the combat how ever flashy it has become.

And to add to the whole "dumbing down" didnt abominations use to explode upon death and damage the party? I would rather have only 10 encounters in the whole game instead of a truckload generic mob spawners and have those encounters have max your own party size in members, with distinct abilities between them. Ever tried to enter the shadowy door in BG2 and to stumble into another plane with a secret meeting with 4 people and a beholder? Now that was a damn good fight and rememberable because it was unique.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

See some of this stuff was in Origins.

This is from a post where I explain what Bioware started dumbing down since KOTOR

It started with KOTOR.

Smaller parties
Cant attack civilians
Cant flee combat as a party to set ambushes or use gorilla tactics
Unified inventories
Smaller areas
No death for party members
Limited day/night cycles

No point and click movement.

I still liked KOTOR

Ok so here is DA:O that is supposed to be the spiritual predecessor of BG. So did it address any of that? Nooooo it was far worse than KOTOR

Ok I think we gained one party member but then we get
auto healing
Level scaling that is worse than KOTOR's. You dont improve in relation to the world when you level.
A ridiculous stat system that is even more hit point weighted than D&D
And less exploration
Gimped ranged weapons
Insane amount of worthless filler combat



OK so one bad Bioware game. Nice track record. What do we get from DA 2?

Removed friendly fire except on nightmare
What?? I like using messed up parties. I roleplay I don't powergame. I might bump it to hard but nightmare should be too hard for someone who likes to create their own challenge by using poor party combinations. The difficulty was fine in DA:O. It was one of the few things they got right. I don't know much about DA 2. I like the way the story is told but removing friendly fire is major. Bombing your own tanks is a mindless strategy.

They removed certain crafting (maybe all I dont know).
you never miss or as it seems almost never ever miss (or have an enemy dodge your attack)

YES! to the "no attacking civilians" (and all the rest) I miss the ability, how ever useless the function there off, to kill whom ever i want. Its about choice. Even if that choice is just an illusion it helps to feel more free. In baldurs gate i knew i could go mental on everyone and have the magicpolice come down on me. Sometimes i did go postal but it allways ended with a reload because it kinda broke the game. But the choice was there to blurr the feeling of a oneway corridor. DA2 feels like im everyones goddamn messenger boy and that the world is standing absolutely still outside of you little sphere of space.

And "tank bombing" just destroys my injoyment of the combat how ever flashy it has become.

And to add to the whole "dumbing down" didnt abominations use to explode upon death and damage the party? I would rather have only 10 encounters in the whole game instead of a truckload generic mob spawners and have those encounters have max your own party size in members, with distinct abilities between them. Ever tried to enter the shadowy door in BG2 and to stumble into another plane with a secret meeting with 4 people and a beholder? Now that was a damn good fight and rememberable because it was unique.

I remember in the first BG when you fight a reckless mage in a brothel. He launched a fireball that charcoled a few whores. I was trying to manage my AoE spells because I didnt want to be banned from the brothel. It was one of my fondest memories of BG. It captured my imagination.

Its true BG's encounters take DA to the woodshed.